Where is everyone?

[Hodad]

I hope I didn't scare the hell out of everyone with my last post. I just thought it was good info. Here's why, yesterday after reading that article, I decided to tighten up my riding, in other words, just pay more attention to the basics.

I was coming home the back way out by Seabeck which has some pretty nice winding roads that give your apexing skills a workout. Curves are the one thing you better have down, especially with blind ones. I was just about 5 miles from home rounding a corner out by a clear cut on the bearcreek-dewatto road. I had just apexed and the bike was on line heading toward the fog line in approach for the next turn, the corner was a blind corner, when there was a truck coming round over the double yellow line(he was in my lane). Since I was exiting the turn on line I missed him by less then 2ft! Had I held the left track, I would not be typing this, as it would have been head on.

The moral of this story is, you need to read stuff like that to keep your ride tight, to give your mind clean fresh data to pull from. Learn by the mistakes of others and listen to those little feelings you get, they are your guardian-angels trying to protect you. I was so shook by this I had to pull off the road for a bit just being thankful to still be here. Delayed apexing will save your butt.

Ride safe, Ride tight...

[cool runnins]

I hope I didn't scare the hell out of everyone with my last post. I just thought it was good info. Here's why, yesterday after reading that article, I decided to tighten up my riding, in other words, just pay more attention to the basics.

I was coming home the back way out by Seabeck which has some pretty nice winding roads that give your apexing skills a workout. Curves are the one thing you better have down, especially with blind ones. I was just about 5 miles from home rounding a corner out by a clear cut on the bearcreek-dewatto road. I had just apexed and the bike was on line heading toward the fog line in approach for the next turn, the corner was a blind corner, when there was a truck coming round over the double yellow line(he was in my lane). Since I was exiting the turn on line I missed him by less then 2ft! Had I held the left track, I would not be typing this, as it would have been head on.

The moral of this story is, you need to read stuff like that to keep your ride tight, to give your mind clean fresh data to pull from. Learn by the mistakes of others and listen to those little feelings you get, they are your guardian-angels trying to protect you. I was so shook by this I had to pull off the road for a bit just being thankful to still be here. Delayed apexing will save your butt.

Ride safe, Ride tight...



Glad you missed that truck, I know that kinda thing can shake you. When I was younger I used to push the envelop, try to take corners as fast as I could. Sometimes it would cause me to drift into the other lane. Now I don't care what someone else thinks about how fast or slow I take corners. I ride to enjoy not to impress with my riding prowess (or lack there of). I’ve had some close calls, most were my own fault but some were like yours. If you push the envelop you don’t have as much room for adjustments (like I needed to say that) so for me slow and easy is fine for me.

[Grinch]

I hope I didn't scare the hell out of everyone with my last post. I just thought it was good info.... I had just apexed and the bike was on line heading toward the fog line in approach for the next turn, the corner was a blind corner, when there was a truck coming round over the double yellow line(he was in my lane). Since I was exiting the turn on line I missed him by less then 2ft! Had I held the left track, I would not be typing this, as it would have been head on. Ride safe, Ride tight...
Ooooooooooo! You're quite right, Al! When knarF and I headed over to the Tri-Cities, the day before Leavenworth, we had occasion to cross Blewitt pass. We had wet roads with rain and freezing rain. The road (near the summit) was sweeping to my right, and I was hugging the left track, in our lane... in fact, I was hugging the double yellow line - a little too close. A pick-up truck, coming in the opposite direction, was doing the same - or worse! He was on and/or crossing the line into my lane. I felt the deflected air from his side-view mirror as it passed just above my left elbow. A major part of this scenario was my fault! Adding to my judgement error, the pavement was getting slick - especially over those heat-applied yellow lines. Over-correct, and down you go! Lesson learned, and thankfully, not too late! This is especially important to people riding in staggered formations... typical when two or more riders ride together. It's not that I didn't have the latitude to move more to my right... it's that I didn't.
The article you posted was well worth the time to read... I'm hoping there'll be more work done to help us help ourselves, and save a few lives. Thanks!

[Hodad]

I hope I didn't scare the hell out of everyone with my last post. I just thought it was good info. Here's why, yesterday after reading that article, I decided to tighten up my riding, in other words, just pay more attention to the basics.

I was coming home the back way out by Seabeck which has some pretty nice winding roads that give your apexing skills a workout. Curves are the one thing you better have down, especially with blind ones. I was just about 5 miles from home rounding a corner out by a clear cut on the bearcreek-dewatto road. I had just apexed and the bike was on line heading toward the fog line in approach for the next turn, the corner was a blind corner, when there was a truck coming round over the double yellow line(he was in my lane). Since I was exiting the turn on line I missed him by less then 2ft! Had I held the left track, I would not be typing this, as it would have been head on.

The moral of this story is, you need to read stuff like that to keep your ride tight, to give your mind clean fresh data to pull from. Learn by the mistakes of others and listen to those little feelings you get, they are your guardian-angels trying to protect you. I was so shook by this I had to pull off the road for a bit just being thankful to still be here. Delayed apexing will save your butt.

Ride safe, Ride tight...



Glad you missed that truck, I know that kinda thing can shake you. When I was younger I used to push the envelop, try to take corners as fast as I could. Sometimes it would cause me to drift into the other lane. Now I don't care what someone else thinks about how fast or slow I take corners. I ride to enjoy not to impress with my riding prowess (or lack there of). I’ve had some close calls, most were my own fault but some were like yours. If you push the envelop you don’t have as much room for adjustments (like I needed to say that) so for me slow and easy is fine for me.

Bruce,

I was taking it easy and at the posted limit. There is a natural line that bikes take and you have to find it. Apexing should be a natural thing. I had been getting sloppy by not apexing or too early or too late. You can get waxed at the posted limit just as easy as above it. The article talks about it and I'm glad it did or I might have been lazy and not cleared him.

Anyway, David Hough speaks of it in his second book, More Proficient Motorcycling. A must read for anyone wanting to improve their riding.

Safe Ridin'.

[Hodad]

I hope I didn't scare the hell out of everyone with my last post. I just thought it was good info.... I had just apexed and the bike was on line heading toward the fog line in approach for the next turn, the corner was a blind corner, when there was a truck coming round over the double yellow line(he was in my lane). Since I was exiting the turn on line I missed him by less then 2ft! Had I held the left track, I would not be typing this, as it would have been head on. Ride safe, Ride tight...
Ooooooooooo! You're quite right, Al! When knarF and I headed over to the Tri-Cities, the day before Leavenworth, we had occasion to cross Blewitt pass. We had wet roads with rain and freezing rain. The road (near the summit) was sweeping to my right, and I was hugging the left track, in our lane... in fact, I was hugging the double yellow line - a little too close. A pick-up truck, coming in the opposite direction, was doing the same - or worse! He was on and/or crossing the line into my lane. I felt the deflected air from his side-view mirror as it passed just above my left elbow. A major part of this scenario was my fault! Adding to my judgement error, the pavement was getting slick - especially over those heat-applied yellow lines. Over-correct, and down you go! Lesson learned, and thankfully, not too late! This is especially important to people riding in staggered formations... typical when two or more riders ride together. It's not that I didn't have the latitude to move more to my right... it's that I didn't.
The article you posted was well worth the time to read... I'm hoping there'll be more work done to help us help ourselves, and save a few lives. Thanks!

It's scary thing, this guy didn't even know he'd come over. He was reaching for something across his dash while in a curve. Smart huh?

I was wondering about staggered formation. I've heard 2 different time intervals, 1 and 2 seconds. I prefer a 2 second interval. I know what you mean though. Sometimes you just fail to react, I know I do. I like these wakeup calls or articles, they get you to thinkin.

Just like to pass along things so others have an opportunity to learn by others mistakes, hopefully not fatal ones.

Take care.

[cool runnins]

Bruce,

I was taking it easy and at the posted limit. There is a natural line that bikes take and you have to find it. Apexing should be a natural thing. I had been getting sloppy by not apexing or too early or too late. You can get waxed at the posted limit just as easy as above it. The article talks about it and I'm glad it did or I might have been lazy and not cleared him.

Anyway, David Hough speaks of it in his second book, More Proficient Motorcycling. A must read for anyone wanting to improve their riding.

Safe Ridin'.

Hey Al,
Sorry if I came across wrong here. I didn’t mean to imply that I thought you might have been going to fast or doing anything else wrong. I basically was talking about me and how I know I screw up. Sorry if I implied anything else. I will defiantly look in to some of that reading you suggested and also try to pay more attention to how I word what I type.

[Hodad]

Bruce,

I was taking it easy and at the posted limit. There is a natural line that bikes take and you have to find it. Apexing should be a natural thing. I had been getting sloppy by not apexing or too early or too late. You can get waxed at the posted limit just as easy as above it. The article talks about it and I'm glad it did or I might have been lazy and not cleared him.

Anyway, David Hough speaks of it in his second book, More Proficient Motorcycling. A must read for anyone wanting to improve their riding.

Safe Ridin'.

Hey Al,
Sorry if I came across wrong here. I didn’t mean to imply that I thought you might have been going to fast or doing anything else wrong. I basically was talking about me and how I know I screw up. Sorry if I implied anything else. I will defiantly look in to some of that reading you suggested and also try to pay more attention to how I word what I type.

No problem Bruce, I might have led you to believe that. :lol:

We coool dude...

[cool runnins]

Bruce,

I was taking it easy and at the posted limit. There is a natural line that bikes take and you have to find it. Apexing should be a natural thing. I had been getting sloppy by not apexing or too early or too late. You can get waxed at the posted limit just as easy as above it. The article talks about it and I'm glad it did or I might have been lazy and not cleared him.

Anyway, David Hough speaks of it in his second book, More Proficient Motorcycling. A must read for anyone wanting to improve their riding.

Safe Ridin'.

Al,
Thanks for the tip on the book, just picked up a copy of More Proficient Motorcycling Daivd L. Hough (Paperback, Illustrated, 2003)
on half.com. I need all the help I can get, I don't know what I would do if I injured my wife.

[Grinch]

I was wondering about staggered formation. I've heard 2 different time intervals, 1 and 2 seconds. I prefer a 2 second interval. I know what you mean though. Sometimes you just fail to react, I know I do. I like these wakeup calls or articles, they get you to thinkin.... Just like to pass along things so others have an opportunity to learn by others mistakes, hopefully not fatal ones.
There seems to have been considerable discussion and consolidation in the staggered formation guidelines. The latest I've heard is 2 seconds between each bike in the same track and 1 second between bikes (diagonally across from each other) overall. Another "trick" to keeping yourself at a "optimal" distance: Be able to see the rider's (diagonally ahead of you) face in the mirror of his/her bike.
If anyone is interested in a really good group riding guide, I have it in PDF format, and will gladly forward it to anyone interested. Please PM me if you'd like it.

[Hodad]

I was wondering about staggered formation. I've heard 2 different time intervals, 1 and 2 seconds. I prefer a 2 second interval. I know what you mean though. Sometimes you just fail to react, I know I do. I like these wakeup calls or articles, they get you to thinkin.... Just like to pass along things so others have an opportunity to learn by others mistakes, hopefully not fatal ones.
There seems to have been considerable discussion and consolidation in the staggered formation guidelines. The latest I've heard is 2 seconds between each bike in the same track and 1 second between bikes (diagonally across from each other) overall. Another "trick" to keeping yourself at a "optimal" distance: Be able to see the rider's (diagonally ahead of you) face in the mirror of his/her bike.
If anyone is interested in a really good group riding guide, I have it in PDF format, and will gladly forward it to anyone interested. Please PM me if you'd like it.

Okay, That was about right then on the Leavenworth ride if I remember right. What would be cool Brian, have Tony host the doc on the main site as a download link. Save you some time of all the pm's. Just a thought.

Just wanted to say Hi Al! We have all been really busy around here. That is probably what happened to all the posts this week.
Glad to hear that all is well with you after the almost run in with the truck.
You know, Bruce says that he doesn't know what he would do if he injured me; but the truth is, I have never felt more comfortable with anyone on a bike, than I do with him. (With the exception my butt with the stock seats! :P ) Not that I haven't been any many with other people. I can recall scaring myself a few times on a motorcycle and on three wheelers. It really does give you a wake up call. I was really nervous at first about getting a bike, I guess it was my age talking, but the first ride with Bruce all fears were gone. I almost fall asleep back there with that one exception (my butt). Don't get me wrong, about the fear. I don't mean to say I have No Fear, but I trust him to the point that I feel comfortable riding with him. Even after a close call that we had, when I could almost touch the hood of a car that wanted in our lane right where we were; Bruce handled it so well, and got us out of harms way so fast that I didn't even have time to get scared. He says that I am a good rider. Hardly knows that I am there. I try to make it as easy on him as I can. I know what it is like to have someone riding with you that moves around alot or leans the wrong way etc.
Well, I have rambled on enough. You take care and keep safe!

Hey Al,

Glad to hear you missed; and had reinforced that doing it right is a worthwhile thing. I just finished reading More Proficient Motorcycling Vol. 2, Mastering the Ride. Time to start back at page 1 and do it again. We had a saying in the service, "you fight the way you train." I intend to be riding these things long after I retire; and to me that's a lot more important than pushing the envelope in senseless ways. I'm sure you've also all heard the aviation saying; "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.

As to the staggard formation, I like a good two seconds between me and the bike directly in front of me, the one second is for the guy on the diagonal. When entering the twisties this should change to more like 2 seconds for the guy on the diagonal, giving everyone room to maneuver. JMHO I've come around a blind corner to find a bike in the ditch and several others spread about trying not to run into each other; gets the adrenaline flowing. Space, like altitude, is your friend.

[Winter Lion]

Wow, Al,

Glad to hear you missed out on that learning experience. That's exactly what I was trying to explain to fellow forum peeps about the dangers out there. Sometimes it comes down to fate and what you are wearing when that blindly guided truck comes trying to claim another victim. The driver of the truck would have told the cops later that it wasn't his fault, cuz he didn't see you coming or some such rot. His insurance would have gone up a bit and we would all be missing you. We all have to drive like fighter pilots on patrol and realize that everyone else on the road is trying to kill us.

Once again, Al. Glad you are all right, my friend!

[Hodad]

Just wanted to say Hi Al! We have all been really busy around here. That is probably what happened to all the posts this week.
Glad to hear that all is well with you after the almost run in with the truck.
You know, Bruce says that he doesn't know what he would do if he injured me; but the truth is, I have never felt more comfortable with anyone on a bike, than I do with him. (With the exception my butt with the stock seats! :P ) Not that I haven't been any many with other people. I can recall scaring myself a few times on a motorcycle and on three wheelers. It really does give you a wake up call. I was really nervous at first about getting a bike, I guess it was my age talking, but the first ride with Bruce all fears were gone. I almost fall asleep back there with that one exception (my butt). Don't get me wrong, about the fear. I don't mean to say I have No Fear, but I trust him to the point that I feel comfortable riding with him. Even after a close call that we had, when I could almost touch the hood of a car that wanted in our lane right where we were; Bruce handled it so well, and got us out of harms way so fast that I didn't even have time to get scared. He says that I am a good rider. Hardly knows that I am there. I try to make it as easy on him as I can. I know what it is like to have someone riding with you that moves around alot or leans the wrong way etc.
Well, I have rambled on enough. You take care and keep safe!

Mrs. Wildflower,

Thank you for the nice message. I enjoyed it. I am sure Bruce will look after you like no one else would and has your safety in the forefront of his mind at all times. I have not had my wife on the back save for the couple little jaunts around the neighborhood until I felt confident enough of my skills without a passenger. This will be a first for both and I don't want to compromise her safety either.

I am sure you are a great passenger, and that makes all the difference. I used to ride with passengers all the time, I just need to start practicing with her on back.

Sorry this has been so late. Between work and other things, I have not been able to answer as timely as I would have like to.

You both take care. Hope to meet you both real soon.

All Blessings.

Al

[Hodad]

Wow, Al,

Glad to hear you missed out on that learning experience. That's exactly what I was trying to explain to fellow forum peeps about the dangers out there. Sometimes it comes down to fate and what you are wearing when that blindly guided truck comes trying to claim another victim. The driver of the truck would have told the cops later that it wasn't his fault, cuz he didn't see you coming or some such rot. His insurance would have gone up a bit and we would all be missing you. We all have to drive like fighter pilots on patrol and realize that everyone else on the road is trying to kill us.

Once again, Al. Glad you are all right, my friend!

Mee too. I am glad to be able to share the experience with my fellow riders here. I know what everyone is saying about pushing the envelope. I had to go to services for a fallen friend. Sadly, in his widows words was for everyone to learn from his mistake from pushing the envelope. It was sad, but I could not think of any way to honor our fallen friends then to perhaps learn something from their mishap.

It's my hope if something ever happens, you would learn from me.

Later.
Al

[cool runnins]

Mee too. I am glad to be able to share the experience with my fellow riders here. I know what everyone is saying about pushing the envelope. I had to go to services for a fallen friend. Sadly, in his widows words was for everyone to learn from his mistake from pushing the envelope. It was sad, but I could not think of any way to honor our fallen friends then to perhaps learn something from their mishap.

It's my hope if something ever happens, you would learn from me.

Later.
Al

Al,
I've already have learned many things from you, and if it's ok with you I would like to continue the learning process. So keep up the good work and one of these days our paths will cross. On that day it will be a good day.

Bruce

[Winter Lion]

That's not neccesary to teach me, Al. I am receptive to anything relevant to you and I having a 25th yr. anniversary, someday. I, too have lost too many riding partners and friends to boot, too ever not take the safety issue extremely serious. I try to tell those that will listen, that if you can't invest that kind of effort in staying alive, this is the wrong hobby for them. Experienced riders find out in time that you can't depend on luck or past efforts to stay alive. Everyday is a work day when it comes to your life and nobody ever gets to the point that they know everything about it. If they ever even joke like they do, they don't ride with me!
I owe it to my wife and kids to keep my head out of my ass, on every ride!

[craneguy]

:D Congratulations! lifes moments of near death make me value the life I have all the more. Thanks for the lead on what sounds like a good book. The only hazard in information, is not getting enough! :shock:
Got my new seat on and changed to synthetic oil so I am ready to Cruize! Hopfully we will get a break in the weather and can get out for a little day trip soon.http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/146722yikes-thumb.gif

[Hodad]

Hey, I forgot to mention. BigBlue and I are gonna try for another coffee clutch on Sunday. I'm gonna call him tomorrow for confirmation, but it looks like a meet in either Gig Harbor or Purdy. So, if you guys can make it, it would be cool to STS for a few and have some Java. We could always take a putt around Key Center.

John you have my cell and Paul I can PM it if you think you can make it.

Thanks.

Al :)

[Winter Lion]

I want to come, for sure. I'll call and get directions from you tomorrow. Have a good Saturday, one and all.

[Hodad]

Hey Al,

Glad to hear you missed; and had reinforced that doing it right is a worthwhile thing. I just finished reading More Proficient Motorcycling Vol. 2, Mastering the Ride. Time to start back at page 1 and do it again. We had a saying in the service, "you fight the way you train." I intend to be riding these things long after I retire; and to me that's a lot more important than pushing the envelope in senseless ways. I'm sure you've also all heard the aviation saying; "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.

As to the staggard formation, I like a good two seconds between me and the bike directly in front of me, the one second is for the guy on the diagonal. When entering the twisties this should change to more like 2 seconds for the guy on the diagonal, giving everyone room to maneuver. JMHO I've come around a blind corner to find a bike in the ditch and several others spread about trying not to run into each other; gets the adrenaline flowing. Space, like altitude, is your friend.

Thanks Bill. I'm a big fan of his. Thanks for the info on the staggered formation. I like the fighter pilot analogy, it works for me. I agree, I was talking with another friend today from the CMA, he likes 2/2 in his formation for that same reason. I can't say I disagree with either of you at this point. If we'd been riding staggered, I am not sure I would have had enough time to react properly if I was riding his diag, I would have likely over-braked. Who knows for sure.

Take care my friend.
Al

[craneguy]

Hey, I forgot to mention. BigBlue and I are gonna try for another coffee clutch on Sunday. I'm gonna call him tomorrow for confirmation, but it looks like a meet in either Gig Harbor or Purdy. So, if you guys can make it, it would be cool to STS for a few and have some Java. We could always take a putt around Key Center.

John you have my cell and Paul I can PM it if you think you can make it.

Thanks.

Al :)Sounds like fun to me, only catch is it's mothers day and my wife would hang me if I cut out on her. :oops:

[Hodad]

Hey, I forgot to mention. BigBlue and I are gonna try for another coffee clutch on Sunday. I'm gonna call him tomorrow for confirmation, but it looks like a meet in either Gig Harbor or Purdy. So, if you guys can make it, it would be cool to STS for a few and have some Java. We could always take a putt around Key Center.

John you have my cell and Paul I can PM it if you think you can make it.

Thanks.

Al :)Sounds like fun to me, only catch is it's mothers day and my wife would hang me if I cut out on her. :oops:

Gotta good point there. Hmmmm.....

Thanks Bill. I'm a big fan of his. Thanks for the info on the staggered formation. I like the fighter pilot analogy, it works for me. I agree, I was talking with another friend today from the CMA, he likes 2/2 in his formation for that same reason. I can't say I disagree with either of you at this point. If we'd been riding staggered, I am not sure I would have had enough time to react properly if I was riding his diag, I would have likely over-braked. Who knows for sure.

Take care my friend.
Al[/quote]

IMO that is just one of the many reasons formation riding, like formation flying, is not as safe as solo. We all tend to think we know our own reactions and some claim to trust and know the reactions of their best riding buddy(s), but, when the **** hits the fan all you have is your reactions working through a load of adrenaline. The result usually isn't as neat as you would have liked it to be. Training can help, sometimes a lot, but the best thing you can have on your side is time and distance.

I think some of the differences we see in stagger intervals are a result of different riding environments. In the busy urban areas it is impossible to keep a 2 second interval on any traffic as everyone is following closer than is safe and someone will always fill that space. I don't see a safe answer for riding in those situations other than to be hyper alert, stay a gear lower if appropriate so you can move fast if needed and know where your escape is at all times. I'm not trying to sound paranoid and I don't drive paranoid, but I think you have to be very aware of everything happening out there to do this successfully over a long period of time.