Disguised Troopers

[machinit]

Just saw the local news......supposedly state troopers are now deploying disguised troopers to nab speeders. In an example, a trooper would be dressed as a laborer on a tractor in a field along side the interstate, and would use a portable radar gun and then radio ahead your description and nail ya before you exit. They've caught people speeding in excess of 90mph travelling in the northern region......marysville, burlington, etc...

pretty cool idea! 8)

[shuterbg]

Yep I saw that too. Good idea. Although I do like to drive a bit fast so have to be carefull. I do know what a couple of the under cover cars look like. My husband has seen them at the jail. They look like your average vehicle, regular plates too.

[mjbj90]

Wouldnt that be a speed trap? Aren't those Illegal?

Matt

[machinit]

Wouldnt that be a speed trap? Aren't those Illegal?

Matt

Good point.........not sure about the legality. The other day, I was heading south on I-5 through Midway, and there were two Troopers both on the new motorcycles, I think BMW. They were standing on the shoulder and gunning down the fast lane and pulling people over as they approached. Both were fully uniformed.

I'm sure the WSP has looked into legal constraints on this scenario.......I would assume as long as they are in "view" damn near anything is legal......

[xronin]

who says anything about has to be in view

[mjbj90]

RCW 46.64.015 "An officer may not serve or issue any traffic citation or notice for any offense or violation except either when the offense or violation is committed in his or her presence or when a person may be arrested pursuant to RCW 10.31.100, as now or hereafter amended."

Does this mean that the guy with the radar has to be the citing officer? If so, is this a loophole against speed traps?

Matt

[bigd_74]

RCW 46.64.015 "An officer may not serve or issue any traffic citation or notice for any offense or violation except either when the offense or violation is committed in his or her presence or when a person may be arrested pursuant to RCW 10.31.100, as now or hereafter amended."

Does this mean that the guy with the radar has to be the citing officer? If so, is this a loophole against speed traps?

Matt

I don't think so... If the officer is sitting on a tractor and you smash by at 90 & he clocks you, you committed the offense in his/her presence. His buddy 2 miles down the road nabs you & writes the ticket. When/if it goes to court, he will testify & ID your vehicle and the speed that he clocked you at. Would it matter who wrote the TK at that time?

Wouldn't this, in essence, be the same as being clocked by a radar gun in a plane and than pulled over & cited? I know that they patrol a large portion of I-90 east of Vantage with planes. Or they used to anyway.

Boy, they're getting pretty desparate...

[StarBandit]

Although with laser it's tougher, that's why I have a radar detector in the quad cab. My foot is really heavy with the hemi! Last year I left the beach area of NC on Sat morn at 0630 and was home in Port Orchard Monday evening at 8pm. That also included spending the night in Rawlings WY. Had the sat radio, radar detector and a hemi in the wind!

[xronin]

exactly... using a plane from above pacing a a vehcile would be the same as a unmarked or a "tractor"....

[budley3]

Thats why I have escort detectors on both bikes and my car.The wifes car never speeds and she unplugged mine once and caused me to get a ticket as I didn't notice.If you do get stopped and they see the detector its a ticket for sure.When the cop stopped me and saw it was unplugged he laughed like hell.

[machinit]

My understanding is that all law enforcement agencies are using laser technology.........if your detector detects the laser beam........it's too late? They've already got your speed? How could you slow down and say "I was'nt speeding"?? I don't see any viable excuses except maybe to state that you were passing?

[mjbj90]

Here's a decent article i found while looking for laser jammers (which are illegal I found out).
http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleID=10052

Matt

[rdub]

i've been a cop for 32 years- nothing on the books about speed traps- i once used my own personal car, parked in a driveway to slow down the high school kids going to lunch- was in response to a zillion complaints from the neighborhood, and several accidents. the guy in the field is not any different than the trooper in the plane. only advice i can give ya all is slow down and be careful!

[bigd_74]

I asked some officers about the speed trap in the plane and it turns out that they have markings on the highway & know the distance between the markings. They use a stop-watch and can pace you judging the time it took you to travel between the markings.

I had no idea.... :roll:

[VTX-Ryder]

These kinds of tickets used to be easy to fight, and were the cause of many heated debates.

In this scenario, they can only prove that the CAR was speeding, they can't prove who was driving it. To do that, they have to pull you over within such a distance form the officer with the radar gun as to eliminate any reasonable doubt that you had stopped, and changed drivers between the time the first officer tagged you with the radar, and the second pulled you over. If the car goes out of sight of the first officer, he can no longer PROVE, beyond reasonable doubt, that you were driving the car at the time he tagged it.

This debate raged for years over the automated stop light ticketing systems. Yes, they got a picture of the CAR running the light, but they couldn't prove who was driving it. So if you loaned your car to a buddy, and he ran a red light with it, you'd get his ticket, and HAVE to pay it. A good lawyer can beat those in court any time. (of course, the lawyer would cost you more than the ticket, but if your points are up at your insurance company, it may be worth it to fight it).

Olympia has since decided that if your car runs a red light, they don't care who was driving it, you're responsible.

[eagle1953]

Thats why I have escort detectors on both bikes and my car.The wifes car never speeds and she unplugged mine once and caused me to get a ticket as I didn't notice.If you do get stopped and they see the detector its a ticket for sure.When the cop stopped me and saw it was unplugged he laughed like hell.

Speed kills dude Many studies out there to prove that. I think Honda even mentions that in the owners manual that comes with your bike. How could you do something.....so......unsafe....sob...









..........I'm just pulling your leg a little Budley :lol: :lol:

[ChromeMagnon]

I must not have been paying much attention when the original thread was posted, but because of my time off you have the misfortune of the long version.

I've on all three sides of the ticket. (1) Issuing as a cop; (2) Receiving as a "good traffic citizen"; (3) Receiving as a cop. The third side is usually very rare...unless dealing with WSP. State Troopers are holier than thou and will issue their grandmother a ticket. (thats another story for another time, over a cold beer).

Dave, your friends are 100% correct. You will see "hash marks" along the freeway, usually an arrow like this < , but sometimes just a dash -. The aircraft simply times you between marks and the elapsed time determines speed. Very simple and VERY precise. There is no arguing the speed, just your ability to mitgate through negotiation. Now, if you are Ruggedly Handsome like me, of course, your chances are better.

Additionally, the fact that Olympia doesnt care who is driving is 100% correct. As the vehicle owner, you are responsible for its use upon the roadways. In the same manner that you are responsible to keep it in good operational order and maintain it to keep it safe for you and other motorists, you are supposed to ensure its safe and legal operation. Remember, driving is a priveledge not a right.

Most troopers operating on major hiways/freeways have a threshold that as long as you stay under you are safe. The majority of troopers I know use 68 in a 60...thats not bad really. Of course, it doesnt allow you to crank up the X and enjoy its full potential...so I've heard.

If you run a radar detector or are thinking of buying one, do your research. There are many versions out there; different operating systems and different bands. I recommed determining what types of systems are in operation where you do most of your riding. Remember, WSP has different equipment than Puyallup PD, which has different equipment than Seattle PD, which has different equipment than King County SD, and so on, and so on. Someone interested in doing research could probably even find out what life cycle (or replacement freqency) their local Bulls are on and what new eqipment is on the horizon...so I've heard.

I'm not saying I agree with all of the state's laws (or the premise behind them), but knowledge is power. Knowing the laws (whether you agree or disagree) gives you the ability to make informed decisions.

Man, I wish I could ride....

[ChromeMagnon]

Oh, yeah, ticket quotas...

When I worked for Pierce County, we had "Performance Objectives". Even though PC has a traffic section that strictly does traffic enforcement, every deputy had monthly performance objectives.

When I worked for Seattle, patrol officers had NO requirement. The traffic enforcement didn't necessarily have quotas, but traffic enforcement is their SOLE reason for being out there...you can do the math.

WSP (spit, curse, look of disgust on my face) are sneaky zealots. They live and breathe to write infractions. The old adage about certain times of the month having lots of speed traps out there (to make ticket quotas) is absolutely real. They will deny it, call it something like "Emphasis Patrols" or something else. Though they are the only LE agency in the state that turns a profit, they do so by taking hard-working guys/gals like you and make you pay the price. Guys who are willing to pay a couple extra bucks for fuel economy lost so he can enjoy an open road.

I have to rest now...the Percocet is kicking in.

[farmguy/ Dale]

Though they are the only LE agency in the state that turns a profit, they do so by taking hard-working guys/gals like you and make you pay the price. Guys who are willing to pay a couple extra bucks for fuel economy lost so he can enjoy an open road.

I have to rest now...the Percocet is kicking in.


I did notice you left out the LAW ABIDING part, if you speed, dont complain about the ticket please, those guys are hired with the sole purpose to ENFORCE the law, not which law, every law on the books. Maybe they ought to relax a little on the drug laws????? Im mean, cmon...its only in fun to burn one now and then right? Who gets hurt ?


Sorry for the soapbox but I have been in 4 accidents over 6 years from someone running a light/stop sign and or speeding. They got a $300 ticket I ended up with a totaled car (each time) and a few bills from the hospital. IMO, traffic tickets ought to have a min fine, starting around $500 and working up on the severity. Loss of driving etc. Pick the time and place you want to speed and take the fine and pay or dispute, but do not blame the LEO's from doing what WE hire them for, the highways are getting pretty crowded and you put other inexperienced drivers at risk when you speed.


I will now resume surfing as I have blown off a little steam

:D :D :D :D :D

[Chromer]

Nice post cdsab. Informative yet entertaining. :)

[ChromeMagnon]

Yeah, I guess I hit a nerve.

I must state that at no time did I BLAME anyone for a ticket. I just dont like the way WSP conducts business.

I dont want to fuel the fire for any WSP sympathizers out there, so I will keep the rest of my thoughts to myself.

Hope you folks are enjoying the weather.

[diamond]

Some what of a different direction but today, I saw for the first time, a pure white Honda ST 1300, with POLICE written on it.