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View Full Version : New NH rider. WTF is w/ the DMV? Read the letter.


NHxj4x4
04-23-2008, 09:33 AM
Guys,

I keep getting deeper and deeper into the idiocy that is the NH State DMV. Yesterday was the final straw so I wrote a letter. I sent this to all the e-mails addys I could find in the DOS & DMV, all 400 or so State Reps, all of the Senators and the local news. It's so foolish sometimes.

To all; with hopes it may concern you,

Hello,

I am writing this letter out of sheer frustration with my paradoxical “Live Free or Die” state. I am law abiding, tax paying, teeming with good intent but seemingly out of alignment with what the NH DOS / DMV believes to be just. As I said I am law abiding and don’t want for this entire letter to be a mass of anger produced self contradiction, but it is difficult for myself to find any intellectual reason behind the hurdles with which I find myself faced with today. The main reason for my writing this is the way the NH DOS / DMV handles the procurement of a motorcycle license and or permit.

Last year around this time I got a motorcycle permit from the Keene DMV. Unfortunately at that time the weather nor my machinery was willing to cooperate with my desire to learn and I was only able to ride perhaps a total of 5 hours over that 30 days. As mentioned my motorcycle at that time had mechanical failures so I decided to save a little more for a slightly better bike and learn next year, no harm done. This year I acquired a new motorcycle that I felt would be perfect for learning. I went to procure yet another permit and was told that the NH Motorcycle Permit is valid once per lifetime and that in order to ride my motorcycle further I would either need to take the road test for my license, or enroll in the Motorcycle Ride Training Program. I opted for option two at this time figuring that it would be the best bet for me to learn how to adequately learn to ride safely. This however was not ultimately the way I was able to go as the wait for this course is a daunting 10-12 weeks at this point of the year, which would push the class for myself to approximately August, and even this was a “best guess”. Now it seems that the course has been heavily touted and recommended by the DMV and perhaps the demand has been overwhelming contrary to Virginia Beecher’s comments in RSA 263:34-b section V that states “An adequate number of rider training courses shall be provided to meet the reasonably anticipated needs of all persons in the state who are eligible and who desire to participate in the program.” In my mind 10-12 weeks does not meet that statement.

This brings us back to the one permit per lifetime. I struggle to talk about this with any type of gentle reservation as the senselessness of this leaves me dumbfounded. I understand that the permit can’t and should not be used as a yearly free pass to say Laconia for bike week…but ONCE? I would think that with everything the state has supposedly done to make this a safe place to drive and ride that surely someone would view this as asinine as I do. What about 2 times per lifetime? Perhaps someone would have has a similar detriment as I and weren’t unable to learn enough to consider oneself as proficient in riding a motorcycle. Surely you would agree that this is a responsible statement, and should be regarded as such. As I stood at the DMV and was told this I think the Trooper saw that I was quite discouraged and went on to share her thoughts on the matter which paralleled mine above. She just couldn’t see the reason either. I searched for hours online to find proof of this law and in the entirety of chapter 263 I could not find a reference to “once per lifetime”. Perhaps in RSA 263:32 section III where it states “The permit shall be valid for 30 days from the date of issuance or until the holder of the permit obtains a special license to drive motorcycles, whichever is sooner.” I should be reading in assumptions, but that is typically not the case with the state.

Lastly I would like to talk about the event that inspired this letter, which is the Motorcycle Road Test. This morning I set out to take the test on a 1986 Yamaha Virago (and I’m sorry to bore you with models, but I chose this bike due to its ease of drivability and nimbleness which play nicely to the skills test). The last few days leading to the test it was running rather strangely which concerned me quite a bit. I marched on however, going to the Keene DMV on 3 separate occasions to practice for the test, trailering my bike each time as I didn’t have a permit. I had the test down, I was running the test and the trepidatious “cones” flawlessly, and was prepared to go.

I arrived this morning (4/22) at 7am to the testing location and started my bike to get it warmed up and do a final check on everything. As the throttle came up for whatever reason the bike was spewing gas out of the tail pipe. Knowing nothing about why, but knowing enough to see that this was quite unsafe I asked to use my Father-in-laws bike as he was there with his bike as well taking the test. Now a bike is similar to car in that the basic functions are the same, but dissimilar in the “feel” of the different bike. Shape, size and weight play major roles in riding a bike as each is different. Mine was a nimble smaller bike, and his is a full sized cruiser. Needless to say I was worried and began practicing the test immediately on his bike to try and learn that “feel” I mentioned. I was close and it was going to be a 50/50 shot for me having never ridden his bike before. I knew that at that time and I was OK with it, thinking the worst that can happen is I fail and I take the test tomorrow in Merrimack.

I failed…passing the 1st test, then in the 2nd test hitting two cones (which is fine), but then in the U-Turn part of that 2nd test I touched the Yellow line as I completed the U-Turn. He failed me right there for touching that line, saying that 2 cones is 6 point and that line is 5, thusly I had 11 points and 10 is the maximum. I had never ridden that bike, and it was much heavier and bigger than my own. Again I was fine with this thinking that I could fix my bike tonight and take the test tomorrow in Merrimack. I’ll apologize again for this lengthy lead-in but this is the part that quite literally blew my mind and this e-mail is the result: He told me that I had to wait 10 days before taking the test again.

Now before you all ask “where’s the fire sir” I’ll answer it. I purchased a brand new 2007 Motorcycle, left a deposit and was slated to pick it up this weekend. My deposit is only good for 1 week as there were other buyers for this bike and it is the last one as it is a “leftover” from 2007. So that explains the hurry. Again, before you tell yourself that I jumped the gun, perhaps, but in all of Chapter 263 which I read due diligently before pursuing my license nowhere does it mention you have to wait 10 days to retest. I talked rationally with the Test Instructor and he said that it was the Director’s (Virginia Beecher) idea and that she wouldn’t budge on it. This basically meant to me that this is a “known issue” as I call it, and that I was certainly not the only one to think of this as completely devoid of intelligence. I flat out dare someone to explain to me what reason there is to wait 10 days before taking the test other than some arbitrary unsaid punishment or taunting laughter that one would find on a little league field when the kid with coke bottle glasses comes up to the pitcher’s mound. Does this really speak to the Mission Statement proudly displayed under Virginia Beecher’s welcome letter on the DMV’s main page? Does this follow anything that any of us are taught in any facet of the coveted “Golden Rule”? Are you all as the Sheppard’s of New Hampshire Citizens really that daft to think that these type of things will be viewed as acceptable? They’re not, they’re preposterous and insulting.

In closing I expect nothing to come of this letter as I can’t imagine this would be the 1st written about this subject. I have written two other letters to the NH DOS / DMV and both were met with deaf ears. I merely wanted to bring some sort of attention and perhaps a minute of focus to how completely and utterly disconcerting this really is for the citizens of New Hampshire that pay your salaries.

Sincerely,

Todd P Maillet

Oakala
04-23-2008, 06:10 PM
Nice letter.

A few thoughts, what would happen if you went to another DMV and took the test and passed it. Would you not get your MC license anyway? With all the paperwork involved how would they know? Of course I understand your point that you should not have to do something that is apparently illegal.

On the flip side, I can understand the ten day waiting period to give the rider more time to practice, but agree that it should be stated in the laws that if you fail, you must wait ten days before retaking the test.

CaptDanbo
04-23-2008, 06:55 PM
Correct me if I am wrong....but you were trailering the Virago to practice the test course.
Couldn't you use that trailer to pick up your new bike?
Just thinking out loud.

Duck
04-23-2008, 07:30 PM
I agree 30 days for a learners permit to learn to ride is stupid.That's why about half of the riders in NH don't have a motorcycle they just ride anyway.That's what my buddy did until he took the course.He had a bike accident before he got his bike licence and the cop didn't write him up.So he said.
Back in the 70's in MA a learners was good for 6 months and I had 3 before I finally got my bike licence.The learners was only good for daylight hours and no passenger.Now a learners in MA is good for 2 years.
Just because you don't have a bike licence doesn't mean you can't buy the bike,they just won't let you ride it home.Take your trailer :shock:

NHxj4x4
04-23-2008, 10:56 PM
I hear ya, my trailer really isn't rigged up for a long distance run with something that expensive in it. Considering getting one from Uhaul for the day, but then again those things are tanks and we're towing with a CX7 that again isn't really rigged up for that. Just plain silly.

SPGrenier
04-24-2008, 02:27 AM
I understand your frustration.

Food for thought: The state Motorcycle Rider Safety Course has many various locations. They will allow you to go on stand-by and hopefully save the 10 to 12 week wait. Call DMV and ask them for the details or stop by one of the course sites in your area and speak to one of the instructors. You probably would have had to pay and sign up. Who knows. You might just slip in.

RogerBzVTX
04-24-2008, 08:58 AM
1st IMPO is the MSF Safety course either stat provided with the use of the States MC for short $80.00 or there is a cousres my wife took in Manchester but was $250.00 at the time

I am looking for the link.. but regardless these courses give you 16 hr's of seat time in the course
and if you pass, there is no additional DMV testing you walk in hand them the cert and you have you MC designation.. and a good amount of street survival awareness and some beginner skill level.

then after a season of practicing what you learned take the advanced course on you're OWN bike.. which was a blast on the VTX..

http://www.nhmro.org/

go to MC Education "This is the more expensive course but worth every penny twice over"

or

http://www.msf-usa.org/

do away with all the dmv interaction IMPO

Air4ce76
04-24-2008, 10:13 AM
Allot of good advice listed above so I won't add my .02 cents on riding safety, however a few pieces of advice:

First don't ever mention you ride a Virago :oops: , second buy the bike and ride it like you stole it :twisted: , as the saying goes and remember and thirdly we don't need no stinking licenses.... :mcrider:

NHxj4x4
04-24-2008, 02:14 PM
Allot of good advice listed above so I won't add my .02 cents on riding safety, however a few pieces of advice:

First don't ever mention you ride a Virago :oops: , second buy the bike and ride it like you stole it :twisted: , as the saying goes and remember and thirdly we don't need no stinking licenses.... :mcrider:

Bought the Virago just to learn. Some items in that letter were an exaggeration, like the 5 days of riding thing. I didn't understand the 30 days of permit to begin with so I've been riding for 2 years now. I feel I'm fully competing, but the Vulcan 2000 got me on the test, just wasn't used to a bike of that size and weight. I'm still buying her Saturday, and I will be RIDING her home.

rileysdad
05-02-2008, 07:21 PM
The road test in NH is ridiculous!! I actually grew up racing BMX's and then motocross, and got my fist road motorcycle when I was 17. I will put my riding skills up against anybody's, I'm that confident in them. The test was still tough for me. Maybe it was different than other peoples, I don't know. I passed, but My VTX just plain WOULD NOT fit throught the cone setup. It wasn't me. There was about 35 people there taking the test like a heard of cattle, it was so poorly set up. Out of those 35 or so people about a dozen of us passed. And, no word of a lie, 2 guys wiped out, and one guy dropped his bike. 2 different people wiped out on that test where they want you to, basically, do a holeshot and get up to 25 miles an hour and then jam the brakes all within like 50 feet. It was easy for me, but for a new rider, it was stupid. And the guy is standing there with a stopwatch doing some kind of formula to determine if you got up to 25 or not, and if he didn't deem you did, he sent you back to do it over and over. The pressure of the situation is just too much for a new rider, and is absolutely stupid. One guy did it over like 3 times and by the third time he was so nervous and frustrated that he grabbed a handful of front brake and locked up the front and went down hard. He was all road rashed up his arm and he had a brand new Vulcan 1500, the one that kind of looked like an Indian with the full front fender. Still new with a temp plate. I'm rambling, but I couldn't believe that test, it's much too difficult and dangerous for anybody new to riding.

Oakala
05-02-2008, 08:19 PM
When I took the test I made it easy on myself, to brought with me a Suzuki Bergman 400cc Scooter. I would have never passed the test on my VTX.

Money maker: if anyone has a scooter and wants to make extra cash, all last summer on craigslist there are always people willing to pay $50 or more to use your scooter to pass the test.

btalon
05-11-2008, 11:45 PM
The road test in NH is ridiculous!! I actually grew up racing BMX's and then motocross, and got my fist road motorcycle when I was 17. I will put my riding skills up against anybody's, I'm that confident in them. The test was still tough for me. Maybe it was different than other peoples, I don't know. I passed, but My VTX just plain WOULD NOT fit throught the cone setup. It wasn't me. There was about 35 people there taking the test like a heard of cattle, it was so poorly set up. Out of those 35 or so people about a dozen of us passed. And, no word of a lie, 2 guys wiped out, and one guy dropped his bike. 2 different people wiped out on that test where they want you to, basically, do a holeshot and get up to 25 miles an hour and then jam the brakes all within like 50 feet. It was easy for me, but for a new rider, it was stupid. And the guy is standing there with a stopwatch doing some kind of formula to determine if you got up to 25 or not, and if he didn't deem you did, he sent you back to do it over and over. The pressure of the situation is just too much for a new rider, and is absolutely stupid. One guy did it over like 3 times and by the third time he was so nervous and frustrated that he grabbed a handful of front brake and locked up the front and went down hard. He was all road rashed up his arm and he had a brand new Vulcan 1500, the one that kind of looked like an Indian with the full front fender. Still new with a temp plate. I'm rambling, but I couldn't believe that test, it's much too difficult and dangerous for anybody new to riding.

It should be difficult and dangerous to get your motorcycle license. I don't think people that have no experience or desire to learn what is required on the test should be able to easily walk through getting their license. They should have to earn it, exactly the way they did. I too grew up in the dirt, poaching roads as much as I could, learning how to handle a bike in all situations and how to balance it. I then practiced for my motorcycle license on a 1979 Suzuki Gs1000 and took the test on it. The examiner told me to go home when he saw the size of the bike and laughed at me for saying no I was there and taking the course. He told me I wouldn't pass, but it was my choice, I proved him wrong and only got points taken off on the emergency stop, thought I couldn't lock the brakes. I made all the obstacles, maneuvering this big tall bike with a full fairing and the reason I did, is I went and practiced the course when I had my learners permit. It's always there and marked out, minus the cones, so it's easy with the information to go and practice it so you know what to expect. I don't think it's a joke, let them earn it the old fashioned way, if they dump their bike, at least it's in a parking lot and not on the street into a tree or oncoming car. If they don't have the skills, they should be taking the MSF course to build up skills before trying to ride in public.

Duck
05-12-2008, 08:20 PM
Good pionts Paul but I think the biggest gripe is the learners permit should be good for more than 30 days so the rider can have more time to practice.
When I got mine back in the mid 70's in MA they were good for 6 months.I also learned from years of dirt riding and took my road test on a Harley Superglide.I think learning in the dirt is a great way to learn riding skills but for most people it's not practicle.