1800 Brakes: Bleeding Brakes and Clutch, Pad Wear Indicator

[Chicago-Spike]

How to flush and bleed brakes and clutch
Here's it is quick and dirty;
- put the bike on a lift, take a bungee cord from one peg spacer looped thru the front wheel, to the other peg spacer. this keeps the bars from flopping and spilling fluid everywhere.
- put lots of shop towels on the tank and front fender. have a roll paper towels handy to clean up any dropped fluid.

clutch:
- remove large lh chrome cover, the one with 8-10 allen head bolts. you'll see the bleeder screw.
- remove the clutch resevoir cover, and float, and set on a clean towel.
- attach the vacum hose, one of the angled adapters will fit.
- pump up the vacuum, then break open the bleader and let some of the old fluid bleed out.
- keep an eye on the level in the resevoir, dont drain it dry, easy to do.
- refill resevoir as needed.
- repeat process until fluid comes out clear.
- top off resevoir.
- cinch down the bleader and bolt everything back together. make sure to clean up any fluid that may have leaked out.

ft brakes:
- remove the front brake resevoir cover, set the cover and float on a clean towel.
- do the same thing above, but start with the left side caliper, top bleeder first, then the right side top bleeder.
- when fluid is clean, then do the right side caliper top bleeder.
NOTE: you'll probably find the front calipers have different sized hex bleeders, 10MM and 8MM. If so, you will need to wrap a little teflon thread tape around the thread of the 8MM to get a good vacuum.

rr brakes:
- remove the rear brake resevoir bolt, put black cover aside, put bolt back in to secure resevoir to frame, doesnt have to be tight, just to keep it put.
- do the same thing above, but start with the left side caliper, bottom bleeder first, then the right side caliper bottom bleeder.
- then bleed the rear brake caliper.
- make sure you keep an eye on the resevoir level at all times and dont drain it down.

Last update: 2004-10-29 10:22
Author: VTXnVA

[Chicago-Spike]

Brake Bleeding

First of all, it is my understanding that “bleeding” means to remove air from the system, whereas “flushing” means to remove all of the old fluid and replace it with new, clean fluid. In the text below, I am talking about “flushing” the system, even though I don’t use the word “flush”.

Also, for clarification, I assume that the reference to “left side” or “right side” is the same as your left or right if you were sitting on the seat looking forward.

Below is a rough summary of Honda’s instruction as how to fill and bleed the brakes. I’ll then discuss how I filled and bled my brake system.

In the Honda VTX 1800R Service Manual (part # 61MCV01), page 15-4, Honda describes how to drain the brake fluid. I will skip over to the next page where Honda describes how to fill/bleed the brake fluid. They first describe how to fill the FRONT master cylinder (located on the handlebar next to the front brake lever). They recommend using a brake bleeder tool. My assumption is that they are talking about a vacuum bleeder such as a MityVac. They say to connect the bleeder to the upper bleed valve on the front brake caliper. Note that they describe bleed valve in the singular but in fact there are two upper bleed valves, one on the left front caliper and one on the right front caliper. The upper right bleed valve has a 8 mm hex nut, and the upper left bleed valve has a 10 mm hex nut. Your guess is as good as mine as to why they are different. They go on to describe pumping the bleeder (they do not say to what pressure) and then loosen the bleeder valve. Add fluid to the master cylinder as the fluid is being drained out, to keep it from drawing in air.

I’ll skip the next part, where Honda describes on page 15-6, how to bleed the front master cylinder for those who do not have a brake bleeder. I’m going to assume that you have a vacuum bleeder.

The next section, on page 15-7, describes filling the REAR (linked) master cylinder, which is located on the right side of the engine just above the rear brake pedal. Note that the REAR master cylinder links the front and rear brakes simultaneously when the brake pedal is applied. I assume this is to provide optimum power braking, considering the beast weighs 800 lbs. Anyway, they describe the following sequence for filling/bleeding the linked brake lines:

1. Right side caliper lower bleed valve
2. Left side caliper lower bleed valve
3. Rear caliper lower bleed valve

Then connect the bleeder to the front caliper lower bleed valve. Again, note that they use the word valve in the singular, where in fact there are two lower bleed valves, one on the right front caliper and one on the left front caliper, which they alluded to above in their recommended sequence. The lower right bleed valve has a 10 mm nut, and the lower left has an 8 mm nut, just opposite of the top bleed valves. I have heard from other VTX owners, that air tends to leak by the 8 mm bleed valves, when they have been loosened and a vacuum has been applied by the bleeder. Pump the bleeder (again they do not say to what pressure) and then loosen the bleeder valve. Add fluid to the master cylinder as the fluid is being drained out, to keep it from drawing in air. And last, do the same for the rear caliper bleed valve. There is only one bleed valve, located on the top of the rear brake caliper.

Below is the method that I used to bleed and refill (or “flushing”) my brake system:

Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems that Honda’s instructions for brake bleeding or brake “flushing”, is over-complicated based on what other VTX members are doing to achieve the same results. So here’s the method that I used, which worked for me and apparently has worked for many other VTX’rs. I am not a motorcycle mechanic, so if anything that I say is incorrect, please let me know, but it worked for me.

Again, just for clarification, I’m riding a 2002 VTX 1800 Retro with spokes. Whether or not that makes any difference compared to other VTX models, regarding bleeding the brake system, I’m not certain.

Honda says to start with the front brake master cylinder (on the handlebar). Others say they started with the rear master cylinder (lower cylinder just above the rear brake pedal). Some VTX’rs say to start by bleeding the front lower left bleed valve, and others say to start by bleeding the front lower right valve. Since there doesn’t seem be a consensus, I d started with the front master cylinder and bled the top bleed valve on the right front caliper first (as recommended by Honda), then the top valve on the left front caliper. After completing the two front brake bleed valves, I squeezed the brake handle, to make sure it wasn’t squishy, and then reinstalled the reservoir cover. Then I opened the rear brake reservoir (just above the rear brake pedal), and proceeded to bleed the two front lower bleed valves, starting with the right side then the left, and then the bleed valve on the top of the rear brake caliper. Before I bled each valve, I removed the stock bleed valve and installed a “Speed Bleeder” valve size 8125L (8125L means 8mm hex nut x .125, and the L stands for Long stem). I used this size for all 5 brake bleed valves to be consistent. The website for the Speed Bleeders is http://www.speedbleeder.com/. (http://www.speedbleeder.com/) The neck on the Speed Bleeder tubing connector is about 1/8” to 1/4” longer than the stock valve. This gives you a little longer neck to attach your drain tube to. Also, speed bleeders, which cost $7 each, have a built-in check valve that makes it easier to do the job by yourself. The check valve prevents air from getting sucked back in. The Speed Bleeders also come with a sealant on the threads, which helps to prevent air from leaking around the threads. I noticed when I removed some of the stock bleed valves (but not all), that they had no sealant on the threads. Again, an inconsistency on Honda’s part. Also, I used an aluminum Mity-Vac Series 4000 Silverline vacuum pump ($44.52 on sale now). The website is http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/MIT-4000.html. (http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/MIT-4000.html.) You may be able to purchase this same pump at Sears. The aluminum Mity-Vac is more rugged than the plastic ones of course, and includes a vacuum gauge so you can watch the vacuum drop as you suck the fluid out of the brake lines. In my opinion, the Mity-Vac is a must have. Otherwise the job could take you forever, or simply fail.

Wrap an absorbent rag or paper towel around the perimeter of the brake reservoir and the bleed valve to collect any overspill. Wipe up any drips or drools quickly. This stuff doesn’t like paint. ALSO, BE SURE TO COVER YOUR GAS TANK OR ANY OTHER VULVERABLE SERVICES, TO PROTECT THEM FROM DRIPPING BRAKE FLUID.

Each time you squeeze the Mity-Vac, refill the reservoir with new fluid. Oh yeah, I used Valvoline Synthetic Brake Fluid. Keep checking the reservoir so it doesn’t get too low, otherwise it will allow air to be drawn in. HINT: Get the reservoir on the handlebar level by temporarily loosening the handlebar and rotating it until the reservoir is close to level (but don’t do this with the reservoir open). You’ll have to loosen the four allen-head bolts on the risers. Mark the handlebar position relative to the risers with a magic marker before you rotate it, so you can return the bars to their original position.

With the clear drain tube attached to the speed bleeder valve, you can also pump the brakes to force fluid out, instead of using the vacuum pump. This is a slower method. Whether you use the “vacuum pump method” or the “pump the brakes” method, keep bleeding the valve until the fluid runs clear and has no bubbles in it, then close the valve until it seats. Be careful not to over-tighten the speed bleeder.

Now that you’re an expert, do the same thing for the one clutch reservoir and the one and only clutch bleed valve, which is located under the large chrome cover on the left side of your X, directly above your kickstand. BUT….you will want to purchase the Speed Bleeder valve size 8125 for this valve, because the 8125L is too long.

For this brake bleeding job, keep plenty of clean rags and paper towels handy. It can get messy. And don’t forget to cover the painted parts.

Good Luck
Last update: 2004-10-29 10:24
Author: LivFree

[Chicago-Spike]

Bleeding Motorcycle Brakes Using the Actron Vacuum Pump

Let's face it -- bleeding the brakes on your motorcycle can be a pain. But it is a very necessary maintenance item to perform -- and it should be done at least once a year. Brake fluid is hygroscopic (readily taking up and retaining moisture); it attracts water. This water is in the form of moisture in the air. Moisture in your braking system is very dangerous, as water boils faster than brake fluid and can lead to serious problems with the braking performance of your bike. It can also corrode parts of your brake system, including fittings, pistons and the master cylinder. Believe me, I can tell you from experience!

I purchased a 1994 BMW K75 in the winter of 1999. It had only 4,200 miles on it and was a real beauty. But the original owner never rode it much, and other than the initial 600 mile maintenance, had done nothing to the bike. The brake fluid looked pretty brown, so I decided to flush and refill the system. It took about 2 bottles of brake fluid to clear out the system, and then the master cylinder started to leak. I guess the old fluid was so thick, it helped seal the gaskets! I took it apart and found all sorts of corrosion in the bore of the master cylinder, so I had to replace it to the tune of about $175.00. It took about another 2 bottles of brake fluid to flush the system over the next couple of months to get the fluid looking clear and the system working up to par.

Since then, I've gotten into the habit of flushing the brake system, front and rear, twice a year. Once in the fall and once in the spring. I don't put my bikes to bed in the winter; we're fortunate to have occasional days with nice weather where I live, so I try to ride as frequently as I can in the winter. But there can be two or three weeks between rides, and that's when the moisture and corrosion can build up on a bike.

Call me spastic, but I never could get the hang of bleeding brakes by hand. Fill the jar with brake fluid; while holding the jar reach up and squeeze the brake lever (which happens to be on the opposite side of the front brake bleeding screw on my K75); then somehow shut the brake bleed fitting before releasing the brake lever? Or something like that.... Somehow, I just can't see the point of the "speed bleeder brake bleeding valves" sold under various names. You have to put some type of goo on the threads of your bleed fittings, then you still have to use the old "squeeze-release" method. It just seems to make more sense to me to use a vacuum pump for this job.

There had to be a better way. I heard email posters refer to a "Mity Vac" brake bleeding tool. But a friend of mine gave me some good advice about spending the extra few bucks and buying a "professional" system -- the Actron pump and brake bleeding kit. Don't be put off by the list price shown on the Actron site -- you can buy an identical kit but without the fancy carrying case shown on their website for about $45 at Pep Boys or other auto parts stores. It pays for itself in probably one use if you can do-it-yourself rather than bring it into the shop. Shops around here are getting in the neighborhood of $60 per hour, so I figured it would pay for itself with the first bleed.

The Actron unit is very well made -- out of metal. But the best thing about it, I've found, is the vacuum pump gauge. It lets you see exactly what's happening as you perform the bleeding, and as long as the gauge shows that you're holding some vacuum in the system, it means air isn't entering in through the bleed fitting.

Using the Actron Kit
It's very easy to use the Actron system and it makes bleeding brakes a simple job with "no muss or fuss". I'm at a point where I can bleed both the front and rear brakes on my K75 in less than 1/2 hour from setup to cleanup. The way I figure it, the easier it is to do, the less likely you'll be to ignore the maintenance!

The complete kit consists of the hand pump, two hoses and a container to hold the used brake fluid. The container has a screw-on top which is airtight once sealed; the top has two nipples on it, one is for the hose that goes to the pump and the other is for the hose that goes to the bleed fitting. There is also a tube of some type of grease you can use to put around the threads of the bleed fitting after you've loosened it, but after I used up the little tube that's supplied in the kit, I simply use regular grease in its place.

Before I start bleeding the brakes, I loosen the top of the master cylinder, and I use an old turkey baster to suck out most of the old brake fluid. Then I fill the reservoir up to the top with fresh fluid -- always put the cap back on the brake fluid container as soon as you can. I also set the top back on the master cylinder, just to make sure no dirt or dust find there way in there.

By the way, here's a tip -- I use a couple of pieces of aluminum foil and spread them around the master cylinder and over the gas tank and anywhere else the brake fluid might drip. Brake fluid is supposed to be pretty corrosive stuff on paint jobs. I also spread some foil around the brake rotor and around the bleed fitting to prevent the fluid from landing on anything important -- like my tire!

Screw the top on the Actron container, attach the black hose from the pump to the container, and the clear hose from the container to the bike's bleed fitting -- the clear hose is so that you can see the fluid as it comes out and you can tell if there are bubbles in it. Pump the handle a couple of times to make sure you can draw a vacuum, and let everything set for a few seconds to make sure the vacuum holds. If the vacuum gauge starts to drop, you probably have some air leaking in, so you should check everything to make sure it's sealed. The instructions tell you to put some grease on the threads of the container to help prevent air leaks, but mine seems to work well without it.

Slightly loosen the bleed fitting, and you should see the old fluid start to come out. I keep about 10 pounds of vacuum going (see the photo on the right), which means you'll have to give a few pumps occasionally. You may want to put some grease around the threads of the fitting to prevent any air leakage. I rest the container on top of an old plastic toolbox, which means this is basically a one-hand operation. It's important to keep an eye on the brake fluid level in the master cylinder -- if I'm alone, when the level gets low, I screw the bleed fitting back in and go around the bike and pour some fresh fluid in. If I can talk my wife into helping me, she keeps an eye on the fluid level and keeps it refreshed.

That's really all there is to it -- keep up the vacuum and you will see the old fluid pour into the container. As long as you keep a vacuum, you know you're sucking fluid down through the system. You can screw in the bleed fitting at any time and see if there's a drop in pressure -- there shouldn't be, but if there is, it means that air is getting into the system somehow and you should check the hoses and the container seal to make sure they're tight. I usually put about 2/3 of a bottle of fresh brake fluid through the system and figure it's flushed. I've never had any problems with air leaking into the system.

Using the Actron pump works great when the system does have air in it, like after you've changed the master cylinder or replaced the brake lines. I'm not sure of the technical reasons, but it seems like when pulling the brake fluid down through the system is better than trying to push it through by hand. The only way that might be better is the professional systems available at some motorcycle dealers that pressurize the system and automatically push the fluid through. This type of system is sometimes used on motorcycles with ABS braking systems.



Last update: 2005-12-02 09:46
Author: Ron Nitrio

[Chicago-Spike]

Tool Hints for changing brake pads


Every now and then this topic comes up. There is a very nice little tool that can be helpful. It is a hose pinch off tool, only use on rubber style hoses. It's available from Snap-on under part # YA2850A. They are a few $ a piece and work great. What they do, is put a little pressure to pinch off the hose. Then you open the bleeder and push in the piston, squirting the fluid in a bucket. This stops the fluid from being forced back up to the master cylinder which can damage it. Just as the piston reaches the end tighten the bleeder screw back down and just a light pump and you'll remove any trapped air. Here is the link, I think you can even order online. http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?search=true&item_ID=66783&PartNo=ya2850a&group_id=1461&store=snapon-store&tool=all (http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?search=true&item_ID=66783&PartNo=ya2850a&group_id=1461&store=snapon-store&tool=all)
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/OBJECTS/45400/45370.JPG


Last update: 2006-03-13 05:38
Author: Jon's1800VTXC

[dba777]

Thank you for the info!

[Chicago-Spike]

Pad Wear Indicator;

That groove will be across the long axis of the pad. Once it is worn to that groove it will be a long trough.

http://home.comcast.net/~scumbuster/images/padsm2.jpg