1800 Exhaust: Vance&Hines Install, Exhaust Gaskets, Apache Baffle Mod and More

[Chicago-Spike]

How to install Vance&Hines Bigshots

It is a pain to get these pipes mounted, but the results are well worth the effort. You do not need a spreader or a winch to get them on. Just some patience and a little "Technique" and you will be ticked that they went on so easily.

Supplies needed;
2 new exhaust gaskets
4 stainless steel washers to go under the acorn nuts 5/16th or m8 size
Anti-seize

After removing the stock system and the iron "Y" bracket and the exhaust gaskets. Yes, there are exhaust gaskets in the cylinder heads, trust me. Use an o-ring pick, small screwdriver and pry them out.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Chicago-Spike/Spikes%20custom%20Bars/DSCN0594.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Chicago-Spike/Spikes%20custom%20Bars/DSCN0595.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Chicago-Spike/Spikes%20custom%20Bars/DSCN0596.jpg
You will also have to loosen the right side footpeg/brake controls.

1. Install new exhaust bracket and install the recifier on the new bracket.
2.Place the rear pipe in the recess in the cooling fins on cylinder only. DO NOT put on studs yet
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Chicago-Spike/Spikes%20custom%20Bars/DSCN0602.jpg

3. Have friend hold rear/tail-end of pipes
4. Have friend lift rear of pipes straight up about 6-10 inches above swingarm

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Chicago-Spike/Spikes%20custom%20Bars/DSCN0604.jpg

5. While friend lifts, you work the front header around the cooling fins of cylinder
6. After getting header past fins, have friend drop the rear of pipes slowly while you work the front pipe up into the recess cut into the fins for the front header.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Chicago-Spike/Spikes%20custom%20Bars/DSCN0605.jpg

7. Yes it will take a little pulling, but will go in. I can do it alone now but I've taken them on/off about 12 or more times.
8. Once the header flanges are in the recesses then you can install new gaskets and put the flanges onto the exhaust studs.
9. Add a couple of stainless steel washers onto studs before putting the acorn nuts back on.
10 Torque to 17foot/pounds
11. Take for a ride and retorque to 17 ft/lbs

Thanks to my lovely assistant, David!!
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Chicago-Spike/Spikes%20custom%20Bars/DSCN0614.jpg

Last update: 2006-03-20 19:31
Author: Larry McKenna

[Chicago-Spike]

Popping and Backfiring in the VTX

Backfiring and Popping in the Exhaust

Technical discussion of the reasons for this, and why you shouldn't worry about it too much

By T-Rex, from VTXOA
For many reasons especially emission control, ALL motorcycles run very lean. All modifications typically done to a bike including open or free flow exhaust; unrestricted air intakes/filters make a bike even leaner. The only answer is to enrich your mix which is done by adjusting a carb and or rejetting...or in the case of fuel injection...adding a reprogrammable fuel "computer". ie Power Commander etc. If popping still occurs or other problems arise such as people describing "surgeing" the remapped fuel system is incorrect in one or more of the adjustable ranges. The manufacturer typically can help when you specify your bike and mods. A competent mechanic is better, and if you don't mind the extreme stress placed on your motor and drive train, a few runs on a Dyno. “
Popping” (backfire) is occurring NOT because the engine is lean, but because during over-run, when the throttle is shut but the engine is still spinning above idle speed, the air-fuel charge in the combustion chamber is at extremely low pressure (high vacuum), much more so than during idle. This causes extremely slow flame propagation across the combustion chamber. This, in turn, has two combustion-critical effects:
The first effect is that, during each combustion cycle, a small amount of fuel burns over a long period of time. This results in “quenching” on the cylinder walls. Quenching is the process whereby the flame inside the cylinder is not releasing enough energy to sustain combustion because of the cooling effect of the cylinder/combustion chamber walls. That is to say, the flame is being cooled faster than it can release heat to sustain itself. This leads to the flame being extinguished before all of the fuel is completely burned. This results in fuel and oxygen present in the cylinder, unused and unburned.
The second effect is that the low-pressure flame (away from cylinder walls and other cooling surfaces) is so slow in consuming the remaining air-fuel charge, that when the exhaust valve opens, there is still some fuel burning in the cylinder. Put another way, there was not enough time for the low-pressure, slow-moving flame to consume all of the fuel before the exhaust valve opened.
So, under the condition of overrun, once the exhaust valve opens, you now have (a) quenched, unburned fuel being pumped into the exhaust port and header, and (b) fuel that is still on fire being pumped into the exhaust port and header. Guess what happens. The lit fuel ignites the unlit fuel and you have a backfire. It becomes completely obvious that this is what is happening, if you have ever witnessed ANY high performance engine run with the exhaust manifold/header removed. You will see (and hear) the high-speed gas come out of the port, and then you will see a flame leap out AND IGNIGHT the earlier-released gas that is already out of the port/engine. On two-stroke engines, at low speed, this is so severe that you are left with the impression that more gas burns OUTSIDE the cylinder than inside it, which partially explains the high fuel consumption of two-strokes.
Furthering this effect, when the throttle is shut (and the engine is supposed to be idling), the engine designers greatly retard the timing to allow full compression of the air-fuel charge before igniting it, which promotes smooth idling and reduces misfiring. During overrun, this results in the fuel being lit LATE, at a time when you wanted it lit EARLY. This is also why opening the throttle a little during overrun helps reduce backfiring: when you open the throttle, you are at least slightly advancing the timing from its idle setting (see explanation above for smooth idle), as well as increasing the pressure in the cylinder (again, see above for the effect of low pressure on flame propagation).
I have driven some very expensive engines (200++mph Indy “Champ” cars being the most expensive on my resume) with state-of-the-art fuel management systems. These engines have had literally hundreds of hours of set-up and testing to set the mixture perfectly, and THESE CARS BACKFIRE during overrun. It is not a problem…it is what engines do…a natural occurrence. High-vacuum-induced slow combustion speed is the reason that, on any reasonably sophisticated engine, as you begin to close the throttle, the computer or engine management system (electronic or mechanical) starts ADVANCING the ignition timing. During high vacuum (throttle near closed), the fuel must be lit earlier and earlier as the engine spins faster and faster, or, otherwise, the above-described combustion lag and flame quenching takes place. Eventually you will always get to a point (RPM vs. vacuum) where you can’t light the fuel early enough (as discussed above) to complete the combustion process before the exhaust valve opens. This is why your engine pops.
Lean engines exasperate this phenomena because lean mixtures burn more slowly than mixtures that are stoichiometrically correct (or even just rich of the correct ratio). But EVEN ENGINES THAT HAVE PERFECT MIXTURE FORMATION, in the correct ratio and which are NOT LEAN, will still backfire during overrun (though a good muffler will keep you from hearing it). Race cars, that cost MILLIONs of dollars, do this. You don’t hear it on most passenger vehicles because of the stock/EPA-approved exhaust system. Also, all passenger cars from about 1985 on TURN THE FUEL INJECTORS OFF during overrun conditions. That is to say, when you come down from the crest of a hill or down a mountain, when the engine is spinning above idle but the throttle is shut, your engine is essentially shut off, with the fuel injectors turned off. The reason they must do this is to protect the catalytic converter. If the unburned fuel and air generated during overrun (see above) get into the catalytic converter (for any sustained period) the catalyst will be ruined (either by overheating or fuel-poisoning).
If you set your bike so rich that the backfiring stops during overrun, you have set it far richer than soichiometric, and you are probably extinguishing the flame propagation (see above) with a rich mixture, in a way analogous to welders who use a rich flame to consume all of the oxygen around the weld joint, and thereby prevent oxidation within the weld. This overly rich mixture could also be the cause of fouled spark plugs (not oil fouled plugs, only the rich mixture fouled).
My advice is to NOT set your fuel mixture based on backfiring during overrun, because backfiring during overrun is NOT necessarily an indication that there is something wrong. The mixture could be fine, even perfect, and you could still have backfiring.

T-REX

Last update: 2004-09-20 12:36
Author: T-Rex

[Chicago-Spike]

1300 and 1800 Exhaust Gasket Part Numbers

Part numbers for more readily available gaskets that will fit the 1300 or the 1800:

Midas - New part number 521817, old# EN1837
NAPA / Victor - F12329 or F 7283
Felpro - 60569

Last update: 2006-02-06 20:28
Author: Tapper

[Chicago-Spike]

Decel popping causes and solutions

This is a guide for folks to follow when trying to sort out the problems associated with decel exhaust popping - solutions outside of just doing the desmog modification. One thing a lot of VTX owners don't realize is that there was decel popping with the OEM exhaust, but due to the restrictive baffling of the stock exhaust you never heard it. By changing exhausts to get a little more roar there has also been an increase in the loudness of the decell popping.

First and foremost - when you slow down let go of the throttle completely. Train yourself to close the throttle when you are decelerating - a half open throttle causes a lot of popping.

DO NOT blip the throttle when decelerating it will cause popping and also fool the ECU into thinking you are accelerating thus compounding the problem. This is not a carbureted engine and depends on many sensor inputs to tell the ECU how to respond, by blipping you are tricking the ECU into thinking the engine is doing one thing while you are actually doing another.

Check the exhaust pipe for leaks at the header gaskets and if you have a 2 part pipe (muffler and headers are 2 separate parts) check the band clamps and gaskets there. You can do this using smoke, so get out the incense, cigarettes, cigars, etc or just blow out a match - and with the bike running pass this smoke around the exhaust ports and/or the junction of the headers to the muffler. If there is a leak you will see the smoke either get sucked in or blown around. If there is a leak ask youself:

- When/if you changed or removed and reinstalled the exhaust did you remove the old gaskets from the header ports (yes they ARE in there) and install new ones? These crush gaskets are not reusable items, just because you only put 5 miles on them does not mean they are still good. Crush gaskets like these are designed for one-time use - once they are installed they are crushed and become "used" and cannot be used again.

- Did I torque down the header bolts to 17 ft/lbs and then retorque them after I rode it a few times? Check and make sure you're header bolts are torqued to 17 ft/lbs.

- Are my band clamps (where the muffler and headers meet) snug to 12 ft/lbs? Check and make sure the band clamps are snug to 12 ft/lbs.

- Is it possible that the header pipe is not sitting square in the exhaust pocket. Sometimes it appears they are when they aren't. You can verify exhaust leaks at this port by looking for carbon trails.

- If you have changed the exhaust pipes, did you check that the header acorn nuts don't bottom out before the header flange tightened properly to seal pipes into the head. Some aftermarket exhaust systems have a thinner header flanges so you may need a washer under the acorn nut to make up the difference.

Be sure to check the throttle body butterflies are closing completely. You can do this by removing the air cleaner and pushing on the butterflies to the close position with your finger. There should not be any movement at all. If they do move close then check all throttle cables and adjust accordingly.

A throttle body that is out of synch is another thing that can cause popping and uneven idling. This adjustment takes a special tool (two vacuum gages) and may be best done by your dealer if you are not confident working on the throttle body.

If there are no leaks in the exhaust then check for leaks in the PAIR (smog) system. Are all your hoses snug and in place? Are all the gold wire hose clamps snug and holding the hoses where they belong? If you're not really "tied" to the smog stuff being there I would recommend removing it entirely to prevent this from even being a possibility (desmogging the bike usually fixes about 95% of decel popping).

http://www.bareasschoppers.com/desmog (http://www.bareasschoppers.com/desmog)

If you've gone over all of the above and still have popping then we need to look at fuel managers:

If you have a Power Commander are you sure your map is dialed in for your bike? If you know it is (because you have tested it on a dyno) then the popping may be a sign of a normal running engine (it's not always a bad thing). In this case the only solution to stop the popping is to add a little more fuel in the appropriate "cells" on your map (it should be cells in the zero throttle position) and this will cover up the problem. You should only add about 2 points of fuel at a time, test ride it and if you need more then add it - the idea is to fix the problem without dumping huge amounts of fuel and hurting our MPG.

If you have an HPP or B&B unit there's not much you can do... Ride it after making all the necessary checks above and see if the problem works it's way out (maybe you had a small leak causing the problem). If the problem persists then I would consider disconnecting the unit and see if it makes a difference. If you have an HPP box then open the unit and pull the connecter to ensure there is no corrosion buildup or loose connections. Also make sure the O2 sensor is snug in the exhaust pipe.

If you have a TFI, FI2K, or any of these other "pot style" fuel managers then this is a tricky situation. These units are designed to make broad changes in the air/fuel ratio by increasing the fuel pulse width signal sent to the fuel injector by the ECU. They will not lean out the air/fuel ratio, they can only make it richer - not detailed, specific adjustments like with a power commander unit. My best recommendation is to VERY slightly bump the lowest "pot" on the unit up ever so slightly and test it out. If you're still popping then bump it VERY slightly again - these units don't take much adjustment to make huge changes in your A/F ratio and we want to try and maintain our fuel mileage in this process so take it slow.
Last update: 2008-08-03 19:10
Author: Bareass

[Chicago-Spike]

Apache "Quiet Baffle" Modification by Apache

Because of many requests, here again is a condensed versoin of the Apache Baffle Mod I made to my not so "Quiet Baffles" This mod is designed for my 2002 VTX 1800C with removable slant cut tail pieces. Slight changes to my design may have to be made to accomodate other model bikes. Also, if you do not like the results, this modification is completely reversable without the loss of the baffles.

Materials you will need;

One pair of V&H quiet baffles.

2 exhaust reducer adapters number 548533 (standard for the industry) 1-7/8" O.D. x 1-3/8" I.D. ROL Exhaust is one source. I purchase mine at Kragen Auto.

1 roll of 1/2" thick x 6" wide fiberglass pipe wrap insulation. I purchased mine at Ace Hardware.

Saran or Glad Wrap to hold the fiberglass insulation in place.

Tools needed;

A small grinder to cut the tack welds loose. I used my Dremel tool with a steel cutting blade.

Access to a welder. Local muffler shops may do the welding at a very low cost. The entire job only requires 12 to 16 tack welds.

A electric drill and 2" round wire brush with a 12" drill extension. (Sears) This is to thorougly clean the inside of the pipes before installing the modified baffles.

You may also need a 1/4" x 20 tap if you relocate the anchor bolt plate.

The first step is to carefully cut the collars loose from the baffles then reverse them and re-weld them back in place. 4 tack welds on each collar is adequate. Use care to get them properly aligned and do not block any of the holes in the front of the baffles. In reversing the collar you will find the baffles much easier to remove at a later date when needed.

Next, the reducers must be installed. The 1- 7/8" O.D. end slips inside the back end of the baffles. It must be notched to fit around the existing anchor plate. Do not remove the plate. When installed and welded in place, the reducers should stick out of the baffles 3-1/4" for the pipes I have. The welds cannot be out beyond the diameter of the baffles.

Depending on what model pipes you have, you may need to relocate the anchor plate near the end of the reducers as shown in the photo. Doing this will prevent the reducer from sticking out of the end of the pipes. Weld two small steel plates 1/4" thick near the end of the reducers. Drill a 13/64" hole to allow for threading a 1/4" x 20 bolt hole. Grind off the edges of the anchor plate so it fits the contour of the exhaust pipes.

Now it's time for the fiberglass wrap. I have found Saran or Glad Wrap to work best in holding the fiberglass in place. They do not melt leaving a sticky substance inside the pipes. The wraps just become brittle and fall apart allowing the fiberglass to expand as much as possible for better sound absorbing.

Wrapping the fiberglass tight around the baffles can be a challenge because it must be tight in order to slip inside the pipes. Here's a little trick that works well. Get a piece of wood about 6 " wide and a foot or more long. Cut the fiberglass long enough to wrap around the baffle 2 times. Lay the fiberglass on the wood, put the baffle on top of it and while pressing the baffle down hard, roll it forward while wrapping the fiberglass around the baffle. Put a piece of Saran or Glad wrap on the wood and apply the same procedure until there is just a little over one complete wrap over the fiberglass. Trim off the excess wrap so that it is only covering the fiberglass. If done right, the fiberglass should be well below the oputside diameter of the collar and the raised area at the end of the baffle.

The interior of the pipes should be cleaned before installing the baffles. Using the wire brush and extension in a drill, run it back and forth inside the pipes several times to break loose and residue. I shot a little WD 40 inside the pipes while wire brushing them. When done wire brushing, start the bike and rev it up to blow all the gunk out of the pipes.

After installing the baffles don't expect to hear a world of difference in sound. You have to run the bike in order for the Wrap to heat up, fall apart and allow the fiberglass to expand. This may take 50 miles or more of travel before it happens.

I hope you like the end results. If you have any questions you can email me at jsscorpio@hotmail.com (jsscorpio@hotmail.com)

Best wishes.
Jack
Attached Thumbnailshttp://www.vtxoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6976&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1241157143 (http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6976&d=1241157143)

__________________
Author; Apache

[Jim Tsarnas]

Did you have to do any remaping ? And how does the bkie run,any back fire? Thanks Jim

[Chicago-Spike]

Did you have to do any remaping ? And how does the bkie run,any back fire? Thanks Jim
Welcome to the forum. For the future, this board here is only for "How To" write-ups and installation tips. You should ask your questions on the "1800 Tech" board where you will get your answers fast.
Thanks 8)

[Thrill]

:popcorn: :bowdown: Great info. Thanks, spike!

[ToMang07]

DEF going to use this to install my pipes!

:thumbup:

[BigVTXMan]

Getting them out the first time wasn't an issue, but removing the wrapped baffles was a different story. I could get them to move back about an inch, but no further, so I found a longer screw with the same thread pattern as the retaining screw, and inserted it inside the pipe, like so.

http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1993&pictureid=12316

And then I made the "puller tool" out of coat hanger and a hex wrench set handle.

http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1993&pictureid=12317

Even with this setup, and having sprayed the baffles with WD-40, it took a lot of force to get them out. I hope this saves somebody else some time and frustration.

S