What is a CHOPPER?

[Hal @ Honda Direct Line]

Who determines what the definition of a chopper is?

Can a chopper be mass produced?

[cybrhick]

Technically, no. Many choose to see the extremely raked customs as choppers, but the origin of the term stems from the practice of "chopping" up the frame/body of a stock bike and rebuilding it in a truly custom one-off incarnation. So unless the manufacturers are going to build a bike, and then hack it up to change it's features, I would say no.

[FR33K]

"Chopper" is part of the English language, and so, its meaning is subject to change at a whim. "Fat", "Cool", "Wicked" all have new meanings.

The term "Hog" was used to refer to ALL large bikes. Now it's arguably exclusive to HD bikes.

If production plants want to designate dramatically raked, low-slung bikes as "choppers", let 'em knock themselves out. That said, they should really be in a easily recognized class of their own.

I think the more technically correct term would be "production chopper", since OCC and several other companies seem to get away with calling their pro-street rides "choppers".

Honda certainly isn't the first to call a production bike a chopper and I guarentee they won't be the last.

[VTX1300cnME]

Technically, no. Many choose to see the extremely raked customs as choppers, but the origin of the term stems from the practice of "chopping" up the frame/body of a stock bike and rebuilding it in a truly custom one-off incarnation. So unless the manufacturers are going to build a bike, and then hack it up to change it's features, I would say no.


That's always been my understanding of a "true chopper". .

Course the name was cool, so it got lumped onto the mass marketing piggy back. :roll:

I'm still holding any judgements on the fury until I see it in person (since it's being called a production chopper, and we're on the fury topic area) but I'm not impressed so far. I was hoping for more from honda. .

[KenzX]

I bought a chopper at Sears yesterday...it slices, it dices, and it even makes julienne fries.

Maybe Honda is going into the appliance business?

[TASSY5]

:lol::lol::lol:I bought a chopper at Sears yesterday...it slices, it dices, and it even makes julienne fries.

Maybe Honda is going into the appliance business?

[oasysco]

>Who determines what the definition of a chopper is?

Well one guy who kinda set the standard for choppers was Ron Popeil with this: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3198645

>Can a chopper be mass produced?

If Ron Popeil can do it, why not Honda?

[TheEmerald Eyes]

If it's mass produced it takes all the uniqueness away. No way can a stock bike be called a chopper.

BTW, has Honda released any photos yet, I still can't find any but I thought they were supposed to be here this month???

David

[Hal @ Honda Direct Line]

If it's mass produced it takes all the uniqueness away. No way can a stock bike be called a chopper.

BTW, has Honda released any photos yet, I still can't find any but I thought they were supposed to be here this month???

David


No pics yet.

[RayJay]

Now this is totally just me.

When I go to a bike show, after a while all the custom bikes just start to blend into one another,,, but; every once in a while there will be a bike that truly stands out from the rest of them. To me thats the true chopper.

A couple of years ago I went to a sport show where this guy had some of his custom bikes, there must of been 15 of them in this area, and each and every one of them was built the same, the only difference in them was the paint jobs.. all of them was priced in the 35K+ range. Are these choppers or just a small production run?

So no I don't believe that a production bike can be what most of us call a chopper.

All this being said, when I've been to just about any event, the record ride, the gathering, a Hoot or two, or the Coloradical, it is very rare to see two VTXs that are the same, Custom grips, pegs, covers, seats, shields, pipes, wheels,etc,etc,,, to me our bikes are more of a custom (chopper than anything coming off the showroom floor.

[sspawn27]

Here you go. :popcorn::popcorn:

http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=446&pictureid=2789

[shadango]

I say that the bikes like OCC mass produces and the one that Honda is coming out with are a "chopper style" bike....not a true chopper.

The ones that OCC does as one-offs are choppers.....

I dont think a chopper necessarily has to be made in someone's garage out back, but it cant be mass-produced.

I think "one off" is the key to the term.

Different people, different definitions.....

Some people say that chopper means "different from how the original bike was setup" but by that definition, my VTX (and almosteveryone's on this forum) is a chopper since it is setup differently from how it was originally built.

[bigsmoke]

What's the diff between a chopper and a pro street????

[race66]

A chopper has never come out of a factory. It's just a motorcycle. .

big dog choppers and others would beg to differ. They produce factory choppers.

some are listed here:

http://www.indexoftheweb.com/Automobile/Motorcycle_Manufacturers.htm

BTW- chopper frames are no longer cut up factory frames (but can be). You can buy a chopper frame right from a manufacturer, designed and assembled for that purpose.

[FinalFury]

Here you go. :popcorn::popcorn:

http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=446&pictureid=2789

What bike is this?

[mrwhatshisname]

this is a johnny pag chopper, 250cc spyder $4299 msrp, I think :doorag:

[Biodude]

Chopper: Old fad made new and promptly commercilaized through the magic of television



thank you
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:jDGAiPcxXJmmEM:http://www.greattvondvd.com/assets/images/Discovery-logo.jpg
:thumbup:

[sspawn27]

Your right it is a Johnny but it's a 300cc :lol: a "chopper" scooter

[Tombstone270]

back in the day.. a chopper was bike that everything you did not need for it to run chopped off....sometimes even chop the front end off and rake it out a bit...

tomb

[mrwhatshisname]

I have been corrected, thank you :agree:

[race66]

Call it what the F@c! you want but it's still not a chopper. Just because they have chopper in their name still has nothing to do with a true chopper. period. I like to call them credit card bikes! Dillholes who want to be on the scene with every other bike night loving, neon flashing, sound systems to blow away a Kid Rock concert, wear full leathers to go 5 miles to starbucks, "bikers".

Yes, choppers are stock bikes cut, stretched and welded. Buying an already raked out, stretched out frame just makes it a custom not a chopper.

It's embarrassing to see how people misuse and abuse a term that has been set in stone.

By Honda calling this new bike a chopper is just another reason for Honda jokes that people pretend not to hear. It's just a motorcycle. Stock from the factory. There is nothing wrong if one does not have the means or the knowledge to create a chopper or a custom bike but don't pretend to be something your/it's not. You're only making yourself look foolish. Stop watching television to get your "schooling" on what motorcycles are or should be. Get out on the road, put some miles under the rubber and listen to what the wind tells you... it's telling you the Fury is not a chopper.

I'm not calling it ***** . THEY DO!! I would agree with with your OPINION.

Tell ya what, send them a note and tell them that YOU are the gatekeeper of bike definitions. And YOU decided that they don't make choppers.

Good luck with that...

:congrats:

reading comprehension. learn it, live it.

[olefart]

Man, Hal really knows how to stir the pot! :shock: Keeps things interesting doesn't he!

[bamaVTXcop]

Man, Hal really knows how to stir the pot! :shock: Keeps things interesting doesn't he!


YEP!!
http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/images/smilies/pot.gif

[bigsmoke]

AGAIN...What's the diff between a chopper and a pro street????

[mctech]

true chopper is a bike that has everything extra removed or chopped off of it.

[Bignicope]

AGAIN...What's the diff between a chopper and a pro street????

My definition of the difference between the two is this. A chopper is generally a taller bike than a pro steet with more of a stretched out appearance. A large front rake and log front forks. Where as a pro street is generally built performance based. They sit lower and don't have near the same rake or stretched front forks. Most pro streets I have seen also generally have wider front tires than most choppers and usually are much wider all around. I know it is kind of hard to understand what I am describing the best way is to show the difference in what I mean. I will try to get some pics up in what I call a pro street versus what I call a chopper. Of course this is all just my opinion reflecting what I beleive determines the class of a bike.

[Bignicope]

Chopper
1342

Pro Street
1343

[Tombstone270]

In the post-World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) United States, servicemen returning home from the war started removing all parts deemed too big, heavy, ugly or not absolutely essential to the basic function of the motorcycle, such as fenders, turn indicators, and even front brakes. The large, spring-suspended saddles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle) were also removed in order to sit as low as possible on the motorcycle's frame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chassis). These machines were lightened to improve performance for dirt-track racing and mud racing.
Forward-mounted foot pegs replaced the standard large 'floorboard' foot rests. Also, the standard larger front tire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire), headlight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlight) and fuel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel) tank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank) were replaced with much smaller ones.Many choppers were painted preferably all in either flat black or in shiny metallic “metal flake” colors. Also common were many chromed parts (either one-off fabricated replacements or manually chromed stock parts). According to the taste and purse of the owner, “chop shops” would build high handle bars, or later “Big Daddy” Roth Wild Child’s designed stretched, narrowed, and raked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raked) front forks. Shops also custom built exhaust pipes and many of the “after market kits“ followed in the late 1960s into the 1970s. Laws required (and in many locales still do) a retention fixture for the passenger, so vertical backrests called sissy bars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sissy_bar) were a popular installation, often sticking up higher than the rider's head.
While the decreased weight and lower seat position improved handling and performance, the main reason to build such a chopper was to show off and provoke others by riding a machine that was stripped and almost nude compared to the softer-styled stock Harley-Davidsons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson), let alone the oversized automobiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobiles) of that time.

[Tombstone270]

In the United States servicemen returning from World War II were looking for a thrill. Many veterans had been trained to work on automobiles and motorcycles and were looking to add a little excitement to their post-war lives with their newly acquired mechanical skills. Motorcycles and Hot Rods were the perfect hobby for them. Motorcyclists bought up surplus military bikes and removed all the unnecessary parts like windshields and saddlebags to minimise weight. Rear fenders were "bobbed" or shortened just enough to handle a passenger and keep the rain and mud coming off the rear sometimes removed the mirrors, or replaced them with tiny ones, such as the type used by dentists in their work. This type of home customization led to the rise of the "bobber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobber_%28motorcycle%29)". Then in the 60s, motorcyclists found that a longer front end allowed the bike to run smoother at faster speeds. The degree of neck rake and length of front end was modified on these bikes with this in mind. The Girder and Springer front ends were the most popular forks for extending in this fashion, although this does make the bike harder to handle at slower speeds. Nevertheless, some choppers have extremely long forks; as one biker said, "You couldn't turn very good but you sure looked good doing it." [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choppers#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choppers#cite_note-1)
To build or chop a traditional chopper an unmodified factory bike is used (usually a rigid Harley Davidson) and everything unnecessary to either move or stop is stripped or chopped off. Then the engine and transmission are removed and the frame is cut up and welded back together to make it lower and lighter. Performance parts are added or modified to increase speed.

[Tombstone270]

....there is no such thing as a off the floor chopper....!!!

The cafe racer has a lot in common with the chopper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopper_%28motorcycle%29) or bobber scene in the USA and both have their roots with post-World War II veterans. Riders rejected the large transportation-oriented motorcycles of the time by taking these motorcycles and removing parts deemed unnecessary. While American GIs would take military-spec Harley Davidsons and "chop" off anything unnecessary to improve performance, European veterans took similar measures with their motorcycles. Both looked to make the standard factory motorcycles faster and lighter, although the difference between the nature of the US and European road systems led to somewhat different results. While the Americans favored a low heavy cruiser style of motorcycle for straight line comfort, the Europeans preferred a higher, more nimble motorcycle better suited to the more twisting roads of their nations. In Britain, many roads can be traced to Roman origin and even older roads following terrain. There were no interstates/autobahn type roads until late 1950s. 'A' roads were(are) better surfaced and wider with multiple travel lanes in built-up areas or between urban areas but may be only two lane undivided highway in low traffic areas (such as the M1 motorway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_motorway)). It must be remembered that it was also a style born largely out of the poverty of Post-War Europe and so not given to the excesses of later Harley-Davidson Billet-Barge (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Billet-Barge&action=edit&redlink=1) style customization.


tomb

[race66]

Hmmm... almost as many definitions as posters...


:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Scotrod1965]

LOL!

Y'all are NUTS!!!

Gettin all bent outta shape at who calls what 'what'!!!

Definitions of words change, period. A 2009 'version' doesn't always match, or HAVE to match, what it meant in the 50's,,,

Don't believe me?

What about the word




(Oh my GOD, he ain't gonna say THAT is he!!??!!)








GAY????????


Does THAT word mean ANYTHING now like it used to in 1950???

Y'all need to move on to more important things before you suffer an aneurysm!!!!

[Scotrod1965]

In the 50's way or in the 2009 way?

Point proven.

Live with it, and don't get yer knickers in a twist. Live is too short!!!!! :grin:

[bigsmoke]

LOL!

Y'all are NUTS!!!

Gettin all bent outta shape at who calls what 'what'!!!

Definitions of words change, period. A 2009 'version' doesn't always match, or HAVE to match, what it meant in the 50's,,,

Don't believe me?

What about the word




(Oh my GOD, he ain't gonna say THAT is he!!??!!)








GAY????????


Does THAT word mean ANYTHING now like it used to in 1950???

Y'all need to move on to more important things before you suffer an aneurysm!!!!


Not to be an egghead or anything, the original 12th century meaning was happy, joyful, or carefree. In the mid 1600's the word took on a second definition referring to homsexuality. This is because homosexual men appeared to always be "carefree." This is a prime example of the definition of a word changing. Another thing to ponder would be how the court system places it's own definition on words daily...so things do change. The definition I've been reading seems to be a Bobber rather that a Chopper, but I could be wrong.

[Scotrod1965]

Not to be an egghead or anything, the original 12th century meaning was happy, joyful, or carefree. In the mid 1600's the word took on a second definition referring to homsexuality. This is because homosexual men appeared to always be "carefree." This is a prime example of the definition of a word changing. Another thing to ponder would be how the court system places it's own definition on words daily...so things do change. The definition I've been reading seems to be a Bobber rather that a Chopper, but I could be wrong.


Not quite 1600:

Gay

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#column-one), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#searchInput)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Padlock-silver-medium.svg/20px-Padlock-silver-medium.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protection_policy#semi)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Ambox_content.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ambox_content.png)
This article may contain original research (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research) or unverified claims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability). Please improve the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gay&action=edit) by adding references (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:References). See the talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gay) for details. (October 2008)This article is about "gay" as a term. For the sexual orientation, see homosexual orientation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_orientation). For other uses, see Gay (disambiguation) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_(disambiguation)).
The term gay was originally used, until well into the mid-20th century, primarily to refer to feelings of being "carefree," "happy," or "bright and showy"; it had also come to acquire some sexual connotations as early as 1637[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-etymonline-0).
The term then began to be used in reference to homosexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality), in particular, from the early 20th century, a usage that may have dated prior to the 19th century.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-etymonline-0) In modern English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language),[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] gay has come to be used as an adjective (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjective) (occasionally even as a noun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noun)) that refers primarily[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] to homosexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality). By the end of the 20th century the word gay was recommended by major style guides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Style_guide) to describe people attracted to members of the same sex.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-2) At about the same time, a new, pejorative use was visible in some parts of the world. In the UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) and US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States), this connotation, among younger generations of speakers had a non-sexual derisive meaning equivalent to rubbish or stupid (as in "That's so gay.").[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-3)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-4)
Contents

[hide (javascript:toggleToc())]
<LI class=toclevel-1>1 History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#History)
<LI class=toclevel-2>1.1 Overview (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Overview) <LI class=toclevel-2>1.2 Sexualization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Sexualization)
1.3 Shift to "homosexual" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Shift_to_.22homosexual.22)
<LI class=toclevel-1>2 Homosexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Homosexuality)
<LI class=toclevel-2>2.1 Sexual orientation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Sexual_orientation)

2.1.1 Terminology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Terminology)
<LI class=toclevel-2>2.2 Gay community (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Gay_community) <LI class=toclevel-2>2.3 Cultural relativity of the term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Cultural_relativity_of_the_term) <LI class=toclevel-2>2.4 Descriptor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Descriptor)
2.5 Use as noun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Use_as_noun)
<LI class=toclevel-1>3 Pejorative non-sexualized usage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Pejorative_non-sexualized_usage) <LI class=toclevel-1>4 Given name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Given_name) <LI class=toclevel-1>5 See also (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#See_also) <LI class=toclevel-1>6 Further reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Further_reading) <LI class=toclevel-1>7 References (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#References)
8 External links (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#External_links)

History


Overview

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a7/Punch_1857.jpg/250px-Punch_1857.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Punch_1857.jpg) http://upload.wikimedia.org/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Punch_1857.jpg)
Cartoon from Punch magazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_magazine) in 1857 illustrating the use of "gay" as a euphemism for being a prostitute. One woman says to the other (who looks glum), "How long have you been gay?" The poster on the wall is for La Traviata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Traviata), an opera about a courtesan.


The word "gay" arrived in English during the 12th century from Old French (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_French) gai, most likely deriving ultimately from a Germanic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages) source.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-etymonline-0) For most of its life in English, the word's primary meaning was "joyful", "carefree", "bright and showy", and the word was very commonly used with this meaning in speech and literature. For example, the optimistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism) 1890s are still often referred to as the Gay Nineties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Nineties). It was not until the 20th century that the word began to be used to mean "homosexual" rather than "happy."[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
The derived abstract noun gaiety (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gaiety) remains largely free of sexual connotations, although it has in the past been used in the names of places of entertainment; one of Oscar Wilde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Wilde)'s favourite venues in Dublin was the Gaiety Theatre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaiety_Theatre,_Dublin).[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

Sexualization

The word had started to acquire associations of immorality by 1637[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-etymonline-0) and was used in the late 17th century with the meaning "addicted to pleasures and dissipations."[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] This was by extension from the primary meaning of "carefree": implying "uninhibited by moral constraints." A gay woman was a prostitute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitute), a gay man a womanizer and a gay house a brothel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothel).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-etymonline-0)
The use of gay to mean "homosexual" was in origin merely an extension of the word's sexualised connotation of "carefree and uninhibited," which implied a willingness to disregard conventional or respectable sexual mores. Such usage is documented as early as the 1920s, and there is evidence for it before the 20th century[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-etymonline-0), although it was initially more commonly used to imply heterosexually unconstrained lifestyles, as in the once-common phrase "gay Lothario,"[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#cite_note-5) or in the title of the book and film The Gay Falcon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falcon_(literary_character)) (1941), which concerns a womanizing detective whose first name is "Gay." Well into the mid 20th century a middle-aged bachelor could be described as "gay" without any implication of homosexuality. This usage could apply to women too. The British comic strip Jane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_(comic_strip)) was first published in the 1930s and described the adventures of Jane Gay. Far from implying homosexuality, it referred to her freewheeling lifestyle with plenty of boyfriends (while also punning on Lady Jane Grey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Jane_Grey)).
A passage from Gertrude Stein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Stein)'s Miss Furr & Miss Skeene (1922) is possibly the first traceable published use of the word to refer to a homosexual relationship[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)], though it is not altogether clear whether she uses the word in reference to lesbianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian) or happiness:
“They were ...gay, they learned little things that are things in being gay, ... they were quite regularly gay.”

[Scotrod1965]

And, as far as CHOPPERS are concerned, I see that previous posts only included a snippet of the info from Wikipedia,

I'll save ya the cut and paste, here's the link to the whole article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopper_(motorcycle)

AND, we could go here: http://www.motorcyclegiftshop.com/motorcycle_slang_a-g.html

The Motorcycle Slang dictionary indicates:

Chopper - A motorcycle that has an extended front end with a greater angle than standard bikes (http://www.motorcyclegiftshop.com/motorcycle_types.html). The term originates from the fact that early riders would cut away, or chop, unnecessary portions of the bike and frame to reduce weight. The raked front end makes for a motorcycle that is stable but not agile. Recently, choppers (http://www.motorcyclegiftshop.com/motorcycle_types.html) have gain attention through the popularity of Jesse James of West Coast Choppers and the Tuttle family's Orange County Choppers, featured on the Discovery Channel.

By that definition, today, all bikes with an 'extended front end' are CHOPPERS!

LOL!!!!

Again, none of this is worth gettin 'bent' over.

LOL!!!!

Look long enough and you will find someone who agree's with ya, and someone who doesn't.

And that pretty much holds true for EVERYTHING in this world!

RELAX!!! It will be OK!!! :grin:

[Kruzer]

Not to be an egghead or anything, the original 12th century meaning was happy, joyful, or carefree. In the mid 1600's the word took on a second definition referring to homsexuality. This is because homosexual men appeared to always be "carefree." This is a prime example of the definition of a word changing. Another thing to ponder would be how the court system places it's own definition on words daily...so things do change. The definition I've been reading seems to be a Bobber rather that a Chopper, but I could be wrong.


Flintstones. Meet the Flintstones.
They're the modern stone age family.
From the town of Bedrock,
They're a page right out of history.

Let's ride with the family down the street.
Through the courtesy of Fred's two feet.

When you're with the Flintstones
you'll have a yabba dabba doo time.
A dabba doo time.
You'll have a gay old time.

I guess it goes back to the stone age too.

[thetriminator]

In the era I grew up in (60's-70's) if someone tells me "hey did you see that chopper" A extended fork raked bike is what comes to mind(easyrider) and I am sure it is that way with most.Point being it is what you think it is,being custom bike or just raked. you will know the difference when you ride it,totally different rideing style.