some technical questions

[TomVH]

Maybe this should be up in the 1800 tech board, but you guys all seem so cool and I'm not really asking anything too specific here. Now that i've buttered your muffins :) I'm in the planning stages of stuff I'd like to do to my bike, stuff that most of you have already done.

1. I really like the looks/sound of bub jug huggers, do I NEED to get a fuel management system immediately with these? Can I run them without one for awhile (that's a lot of $$$ at once....).

2. If I go with an HPP, I've been told not to do the desmog mod. What CAN I do? The airbox portion of the desmog? I like the idea of taking useless crap off my bike....

3. related to 2...if I do improve airflow because of airbox mod/new airbox/whatever, this will cause more air to flow to the engine and result in a leaner mixture (right so far?)...which can hurt the engine, meaning I do NEED a fuel management system?
(basically i want the look/sound/less weight of an aftermarket system but don't want to drop over 1000$ all at once...)

4. what's the Tap in a drill and tap for?

5. anyone ever use the bondo method to fill in the tank seam?

that's it :) THANKS for any help or advice! :D

[BigV]

TomVH,
My suggestion would be to put the pipes on and see what happens. You might experience some popping on deceleration, but you may not. Doing the de-smog helps to reduce or even eliminate the popping. I would recommend doing the entire de-smog removing everything. It’s simple to do and you will really enjoy working on your bike. A friend (2high2ride) just bought a brand new 03 “C” and last night we did the de-smog and cut out the side of his stock air box. He just installed a K&N filter and his bike runs awesome. He does get a little popping on deceleration, but he says he can live with it.
The bike smokes a little when he gets on it so it would seem like he is still running on the rich side. HPP and a Power Commander both have benefits. I use a power commander because it is programmable and you can lean it out or richen it either one. The HPP cannot do both. 2high2ride has the cost of new slip-on’s and a K&N filter invested in his ride and the change was dramatic. Perhaps you could ride down to Akron and we could do the de-smog together (you do the work, I assist). I’m sure DonG and 2high2ride would come down for moral support!

[TomVH]

Thanks BigV - that would be awesome. I would really like to meet some of you guys and to get help like that would be very appreciated :) Want me to email you about a good time to do it? (thinking august sometime?)....

[BigV]

That would be great.
E-Mail me or PM me and we will come up with a plan.
Mike

[DonG]

Maybe this should be up in the 1800 tech board, but you guys all seem so cool and I'm not really asking anything too specific here. Now that i've buttered your muffins :) I'm in the planning stages of stuff I'd like to do to my bike, stuff that most of you have already done.

1. I really like the looks/sound of bub jug huggers, do I NEED to get a fuel management system immediately with these? Can I run them without one for awhile (that's a lot of $$$ at once....).

2. If I go with an HPP, I've been told not to do the desmog mod. What CAN I do? The airbox portion of the desmog? I like the idea of taking useless crap off my bike....

3. related to 2...if I do improve airflow because of airbox mod/new airbox/whatever, this will cause more air to flow to the engine and result in a leaner mixture (right so far?)...which can hurt the engine, meaning I do NEED a fuel management system?
(basically i want the look/sound/less weight of an aftermarket system but don't want to drop over 1000$ all at once...)

4. what's the Tap in a drill and tap for?

5. anyone ever use the bondo method to fill in the tank seam?

that's it :) THANKS for any help or advice! :D

TomVH,

1. Jughuggers.. Their a great looking pipe but haven't seen any HP reports on them yet. Just make sure what ever you get has a cross-over pipe on it. This motor needs to have some back pressure. Not only that but the cross-over helps scavage the exauhast from the other cylinder.
Chances are very good you won't need a FM system for it using the pipes, I ran mine with pipes and an open box for a year and it ran great.

2. The HPP needs the smog stuff to operate, it moniters it and adjusts from it either adding or subtracting fuel.

3. Air.. This motor loves air, the more you give it the better it runs. Like mentioned above you might not need anything for it. Best thing to do would be try it and after a few miles check the plugs and go from there. My air box flows allmost as much air as a thunder and I never needed a FM system. I elected to go with a PCIII for the adjustability. Don't be intimidated by some of the posts you read about them, they are easy to set up and you don't have to screw around with them all the time like they lead you to believe. Also you can dial every last pony out of that motor with the different set-ups, you can't do that with a HPP.

4. The drill and tap is for drilling and tapping your pipes to install the bung supplied with the HPP. The bung is the moniter devise you install in the exhaust pipe, it reads the carbon vapors and reports it to the HPP so it can adjust your mixtures as you ride. Some pipes do have a whole provided such as the V/H but it's not big enough so you have to enlarge them to accept HPP's devise.

5. Tank seam.. nope, haven't done it but it's not hard to do. When and if you decide to re-paint would be the time to do it. It really doesn't bother me at all so unless I paint in the future it's got a home. BTW, the plastic type body fillers work the best.

I'd recommend the PCIII usb to anyone wanting a FM system, it's easy to set up and works. The HPP is designed for fuel milage and basicly adjusts your system as you ride, and most of the time it's trying to lean the system and you have no control over the adjustments it makes where as the PCIII can do both by adjusting it to do what you want.

Most times to make this motor run strong you need to add fuel but also it needs to breath to benifit from the fuel "air in - air out" it's a big pump. Also the PCIII will cut the milage a bit due to adding more fuel but I didn't buy this bike for milage. You're welcome to try mine and I'm sure you'll see (or feel) :shock: the night and day difference.

Install good pipes, open that air box, dial it in with a PCIII and it's a different bike!

Let me know if you need any help.

Don

[TomVH]

Don -
Wow thanks that was thorough - I spent a few hours yesterday looking over the PCIII and I guess it seemed a little intimidating what with dyno fees and if I change anything I need to do it all over again etc. I guess that's not really the case. (and it's cheaper than HPP...)

What's a 'cross-over pipe'? I gather it is for creating back pressure and scavenging -how can I tell if Jughuggers have it? I'll check their website and maybe call them.

So, maybe it's best to go with PCIII - that way I can do the desmog and learn from what seems like 98% of the rest of this board who've done the same thing.

Thanks again
Tom

[DonG]

TomVH,

I never caught if you had the C or the R but figure you have a C. The R has the crossover between the 2 pipes and is located below the passengers peg and a bit forward. The V/H pipes do come with them and so do others. If you get a 2 into 1 pipe then the problem is solved also.

If you decide on a PCIII and later want to get it dyno'd I know a guy that will do it for around $100, that will buy you allmost 2 1/2 hrs. on the dyno and I know he can complete it for that.

I've had mine on the dyno 3 times allready and did base runs for each mod and it's pretty cool to watch and see what you end up with. I did not have a custom map made nor have I had it dyno'd with the PCIII in place yet either but do have a map installed that gets the job done. I was getting 40+ mpg with mixed riding before the PCIII and now 35 mpg with it for some 5000 trouble free miles.

Let us know how you end up of if you need any help.

Don

[TomVH]

I have the C. What does a cross-over pipe do? Is this something I need to worry about since I have the C model?

I am really looking forward to some performance gains with the jug huggers and the pciii. I'm also looking at a thunder teardrop or tornado - they look cool and i hear good things about them.

thanks again for info!

Tom

[xetremex]

I have the C. What does a cross-over pipe do? Is this something I need to worry about since I have the C model?

I am really looking forward to some performance gains with the jug huggers and the pciii. I'm also looking at a thunder teardrop or tornado - they look cool and i hear good things about them.

thanks again for info!

Tom


Tom,
A crossover is a chamber that connects the two single pipes together at a point, helping the bike w/ exhaust scavenging across cylinders and reducing the power loss of going to a 2 into 2 system. It will effect/reduce power if you go w/ a 2 into 2 pipe w/out the crossover chamber. I went with the Vance & Hines bigshots for this very reason. I believe the Jardines also have the crossover chamber, but am unsure about the Jug Huggers. You should find this out though before purchasing. Pipes that are 2 into 1 (like Roadhouse Shorty, HK sideburner) don't have this problem as both cylinders combine into 1 barrel creating this scavenging effect.

As for airboxes, I've heard the teardrop is one of the better airboxes for getting air directly into the engine.

[TomVH]

Oh crap - the Jug Huggers do NOT have a crossover, so that means I will lose HP? that sucks. They look and sound so cool - I was hoping not to go with bigshots cause everyone had them and just wanted to be a little different... :)

I really like 2 into 2 systems tho, and ANYTHING is better than this stock civil-war era cannon bolted to the side. thanks for the info. I know they sell performance baffles for the jug huggers but that's just more $$$ and probably would decrease the loudness (also what i'm going for :) ).

Tom

[xetremex]

Oh crap - the Jug Huggers do NOT have a crossover, so that means I will lose HP? that sucks. They look and sound so cool - I was hoping not to go with bigshots cause everyone had them and just wanted to be a little different... :)

I really like 2 into 2 systems tho, and ANYTHING is better than this stock civil-war era cannon bolted to the side. thanks for the info. I know they sell performance baffles for the jug huggers but that's just more $$$ and probably would decrease the loudness (also what i'm going for :) ).

Tom

It won't be a significant loss in power (might not even be noticeable really). Cobra is putting out a new exhaust 2 into 2 that will have the chamber, but not sure when.