Cash For Clunkers (revisited)

[Glennok]

The program has been going on for a couple weeks now and it's time to take a critical look.

Here's what I've been reading about....

Repair shops are reporting a drop in business
Dealers expect the price of used cars to go up dramatically since there are fewer of them on the road
Four of the top five sellers are foreign vehicles (profits go overseas although some of them are made here)
Does not help the poorer people who really need it because they still can't afford the payments
So it begs the question.......

When the poorer people who could not afford to trade their clunker for a new vehicle need to buy another used vehicle, will they be able to afford one?

Seems to me that the obamama threw the poor people under the wagon to gain points on so-called global warming. Wasn't he supposed to be the champion of the poor?

IMO this program needs to end NOW. We're spending billions on a program to give people money for a down payment who probably could have afforded a new car anyway.

I fail to see the upside.

[Quietrider]

yea. Some of these cars that are being trashed are better than the ones the poor have that can afford to trade. :dontknow:

[dzuber76]

And a hummer is an approved trade. :dontknow: WTF?

[RoadDawg]

The program has been going on for a couple weeks now and it's time to take a critical look.

Here's what I've been reading about....

Repair shops are reporting a drop in business
Dealers expect the price of used cars to go up dramatically since there are fewer of them on the road
Four of the top five sellers are foreign vehicles (profits go overseas although some of them are made here)
Does not help the poorer people who really need it because they still can't afford the payments
The Poor people that can not afford the payments on the new car, and now can not afford the greatly enhanced price of a used car that he could have afforded prior to this oBamanation are now FORCED to use PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. One of the goals of the CHANGE gang.

So it begs the question.......

When the poorer people who could not afford to trade their clunker for a new vehicle need to buy another used vehicle, will they be able to afford one?

Seems to me that the obamama threw the poor people under the wagon to gain points on so-called global warming. Wasn't he supposed to be the champion of the poor?

IMO this program needs to end NOW. We're spending billions on a program to give people money for a down payment who probably could have afforded a new car anyway.

I fail to see the upside.

The newly added fifth bullet answers your question...
Pardon the "edit"...:rolleyes:
nObama threw them under the wagon, bus, light rail, subway etc...

8)

[race66]

Now if they'd just expand it to allow klunkers for motorcycles....

they'd have something! :thumbup:

[Glennok]

The newly added fifth bullet answers your question...
Pardon the "edit"...:rolleyes:
nObama threw them under the wagon, bus, light rail, subway etc...

8)
I don't think THAT mindset is going to work for country folks. Have never seen public transportation in the small towns around here, and they certainly can't afford to start one for the three peeps that might use it.

I think the program was more a propaganda boost for the obamama. People who don't like to think will believe he is doing it for the less fortunate, when that is not the case. But, he's playing to his voting base and I think that's all he cares about.

[mojoguy]

yea. Some of these cars that are being trashed are better than the ones the poor have that can afford to trade. :dontknow:


They are not necessarily being trashed/crushed either. Reports here in Houston is that the dealers are pushing them out the back door to be sold again nojoke This is another program by the governemt that was not thoroughly examined.

[Glennok]

This is another program by the governemt that was not thoroughly examined.

Kinda like TARP?

And folks want the government to run their healthcare. How can people be that stupid. Let's ask crewd. :D

[RoadDawg]

I don't think THAT mindset is going to work for country folks. Have never seen public transportation in the small towns around here, and they certainly can't afford to start one for the three peeps that might use it.

I think the program was more a propaganda boost for the obamama. People who don't like to think will believe he is doing it for the less fortunate, when that is not the case. But, he's playing to his voting base and I think that's all he cares about.


Well you have to realize the demographics of their thinking... They don't particularly care if Bubba can't get in from the farm... He does not vote with the aCORN crowd anyway and there are MANY more "ACORNs" per acre than farmers. mObama promised more public transportation and they can not do that as long as the po' folks in the burbs are drivin' hooptees...nojoke

8)

[iuhoosier1992]

The other issue that the dealers are running into is that the scrap guys don't want these cars. Most of the scrap guys will tear down the cars and sell the parts. Guess what the most valuable part of that old car is? The engine and what is the one thing that dealers are required to do in this program? That's right, kill the engine. Again, most scrap guys aren't participating in this program.

My very best friend growing up, his family owns a small town car dealership and they have about 80 cars ready to send off, but can't find a scrap dealer to take them. He doesn't have a big lot either. Also, the other kicker, his dad's dealership has yet to see a single dollar from the government. Imagine being a car dealer and having the federal government as a receivable. My friend's dad said he hasn't gotten any indication when the checks are going to be sent out and no one in DC can give him an answer. Also, his service business is in the tank as well. May have to lay off a couple of service techs.

Great program sell more cars, but send more guys to the unemployment lines. Oh and don't bother paying the dealers until you are good and ready.

[Joe T]

It has sold about 250,000 cars in less than three weeks. That has created a demand for more new cars from the DETROIT BIG THREE (see todays' WSJ). That will put a LOT of middle class AMERICANS to work.

So, I ask,

WHAT THE F*#$K IS WRONG WITH THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Isn't that better than giving Gazzillions of dollars to the Wall Street thieves who almost destroyed our country (like Bush did)?

Isn't there really important things to discuss in a civilized manner? Why harp on a good thing. We have plenty of bad things to discuss - like Al Queda, the Saudis, Iran, Halliburton.

Poor folks ain't gonna buy a car, or they would have traded their CLUNKERS in for a new one. It is us MIDDLE CLASS folks who power this country. Not the poor and not the top 5%.

Enough said.

Regards,
Joe T.

[drtrider]

It has sold about 250,000 cars in less than three weeks. That has created a demand for more new cars from the DETROIT BIG THREE (see todays' WSJ). That will put a LOT of middle class AMERICANS to work.

So, I ask,

WHAT THE F*#$K IS WRONG WITH THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Isn't that better than giving Gazzillions of dollars to the Wall Street thieves who almost destroyed our country (like Bush did)?

Isn't there really important things to discuss in a civilized manner? Why harp on a good thing. We have plenty of bad things to discuss - like Al Queda, the Saudis, Iran, Halliburton.

Poor folks ain't gonna buy a car, or they would have traded their CLUNKERS in for a new one. It is us MIDDLE CLASS folks who power this country. Not the poor and not the top 5%.

Enough said.

Regards,
Joe T.





:agree: It will trickle down where even the bolts will help out some companys. Even our company which does trim for your automakers should help us out.

[Evi|grin]

I was going to use my Dakota V8 as a trade but after looking i couldnt find a car or truck that met all my "wants" if i used the CARS "rebate".

Ive gotten a fair offer for my truck so im going to sell it to someone that will make use of it. Then buy a used lower mileage, better mpg option.

I figure "used" doesnt negatively impact the "who gets the money" as badly even if i buy a foreign brand since im buying it from a local dealer.

I wanted a new Camaro sooooooo bad too. :cry:

[CentralScrutinizer]

So, I ask,

WHAT THE F*#$K IS WRONG WITH THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
It's because Obama did it. Haven't you heard, anything he does is bad, bad, bad.
The sky is falling - scream hysterically or be cast out.

[Glennok]

Joe T: It has sold about 250,000 cars in less than three weeks. That has created a demand for more new cars from the DETROIT BIG THREE (see todays' WSJ). That will put a LOT of middle class AMERICANS to work.

I don't know if it's reading or comprehension that's your problem, but you must not have read the original post. If we've sold 250,000 vehicles, then 200,000 of them were foreign.

Isn't that better than giving Gazzillions of dollars to the Wall Street thieves who almost destroyed our country (like Bush did)?

What are you talking about? Even after the meltdown, the obamama is approving huge payouts to execs of companies we should have allowed to go under.

Isn't there really important things to discuss in a civilized manner? Why harp on a good thing. We have plenty of bad things to discuss - like Al Queda, the Saudis, Iran, Halliburton.

Poor folks ain't gonna buy a car, or they would have traded their CLUNKERS in for a new one. It is us MIDDLE CLASS folks who power this country. Not the poor and not the top 5%.

Poor folks couldn't afford to trade in their clunkers and pay for a new car. The program was intended to help THEM, not the middle class.

The trickle down theory works against you too. As I stated, repair shops are losing money, and the price of used cars is going to go up.

The local dealers in my area have voluntarily quit the program because they haven't seen any money from the Feds and it's affecting their ability to do business.

You claim it's a good thing since it helps the automakers. Isn't that what the billions of dollars already spent on keeping them afloat was supposed to be for? How long do you propose that we keep feeding money to these mismanaged companies before you say "enough"? Have YOU read the news about our deficit? Is it okay to keep spending until we're speaking Chinese? Shouldn't we be figuring out ways to SAVE money to pay down our debt?

This program was NOT needed. People were still buying cars before this boondoggle. The bottom line is that it only helped people who were probably going to buy anyway, and now people who will actually NEED a newer car are going to have to pay out the nose.

Taxes, taxes, taxes, spend, spend, spend.....the only answer that liberals have.

[crew]

Folks have got to understand that there is no more "middle-class" in America ... neither a rural culture nor in industry ... America is economically and socially polarized ...

We ( that would be YOU in most cases ... ) are a debtor nation to Mexico and China and the bank probably owns a good chunk of your house and car ... and you may use a credit card and all of those financing programs available at your mall, home depot or hardware store ... If you don't like this $#!+ a good way to start is to clean up your credit and get debt free.

... and, in America, there's lots of ways of voting ... you can vote with your ballot, you can vote with your shoe leather by showing up or not and you can vote with your purse ...

With the "clunkers" program; it's not mandatory that folks take part and you still have to have some sort of credit rating in most cases. Folks are voting for the program with their purse and involving themselves in legislation that may help them "get over the hump" and get the car that they want so they can continue to drive to work it they're lucky enough to have a job and the mall to rub the numbers off that plastic.

I didn't take part in the program because I usually buy cars for cash and don't drive anything that the program defines as a "clunker" ...

but ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:

[Glennok]

You should have traded yourself crewd. You'd qualify. You're old and blow a lot of smoke. Probably couldn't have gotten much more than a used bicycle though.

[slacks]

Aaahh yes, bring on the personal insults, THAT is a good argument.

One question to the program haters:

Is ANYONE forced to use the program??????? simple answer..yes or no?

Its often cheaper to keeper - maintaining an older car is often cheaper than higher payments on new units.

One HOWEVER that is valid is that prices of new vehicles have gone up - its the oldest game in the book; you get more for your trade (perceived or real) but you pay for it on the retail end. That game has been around for ever.

Also, about people buying "foreign" cars? Where is that car manufactured? Want a Ford? Thank you Mexican cheap labor. Want a BMW or Nissan? Thank you good people in Tennessee. Oh, and parts and distribution and salespeople, lender's employees, dealer staff and.....their families? Hmmmm, sounds like more than Japanese execs benefit here.

Like said in earlier posts, people vote with more than ballot boxes.

[crew]

Aaahh yes, bring on the personal insults, THAT is a good argument.

One question to the program haters:

Is ANYONE forced to use the program??????? simple answer..yes or no?

***

Like said in earlier posts, people vote with more than ballot boxes.

:thumbup:

:crew:

[Glennok]

Aaahh yes, bring on the personal insults, THAT is a good argument.

One question to the program haters:

Is ANYONE forced to use the program??????? simple answer..yes or no?

Its often cheaper to keeper - maintaining an older car is often cheaper than higher payments on new units.

One HOWEVER that is valid is that prices of new vehicles have gone up - its the oldest game in the book; you get more for your trade (perceived or real) but you pay for it on the retail end. That game has been around for ever.

Also, about people buying "foreign" cars? Where is that car manufactured? Want a Ford? Thank you Mexican cheap labor. Want a BMW or Nissan? Thank you good people in Tennessee. Oh, and parts and distribution and salespeople, lender's employees, dealer staff and.....their families? Hmmmm, sounds like more than Japanese execs benefit here.

Like said in earlier posts, people vote with more than ballot boxes.

No, no one is forced to use the program, but what does that have to do with anything?

We ALL pay for it and it's NOT money well spent. But you probably think that the dems spending 400 billion on pork during a financial "crisis" was okay too.

Remember that thing called a deficit?

[RAH16]

It has sold about 250,000 cars in less than three weeks. That has created a demand for more new cars from the DETROIT BIG THREE (see todays' WSJ). That will put a LOT of middle class AMERICANS to work.

So, I ask,

WHAT THE F*#$K IS WRONG WITH THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Isn't that better than giving Gazzillions of dollars to the Wall Street thieves who almost destroyed our country (like Bush did)?

Isn't there really important things to discuss in a civilized manner? Why harp on a good thing. We have plenty of bad things to discuss - like Al Queda, the Saudis, Iran, Halliburton.

Poor folks ain't gonna buy a car, or they would have traded their CLUNKERS in for a new one. It is us MIDDLE CLASS folks who power this country. Not the poor and not the top 5%.

Enough said.

Regards,
Joe T.


I call BS... The vast majority of the cars sold came out of inventory that was too high to begin with. They will not be replacing the inventory that filled these orders. So I ask you what jobs are being created? Oh yea just like the stimulus pkg temp jobs...

[guido69]

"Four of the top five sellers are foreign vehicles (profits go overseas although some of them are made here)"

Profits go over seas yes. But as you said, some of those foreign vehicles are manufactured here. So some of that profit is coming back to the U.S. to pay American salaries. In today's global economy, we all need to get used to this, whether we like it or not. It's just how business operates these days.

[guido69]

I call BS... The vast majority of the cars sold came out of inventory that was too high to begin with. They will not be replacing the inventory that filled these orders. So I ask you what jobs are being created? Oh yea just like the stimulus pkg temp jobs...

Jobs will not be created. Some people will be able to go back to work. They will not produce as many vehicles as in years past, but they will need to re-stock.

[RAH16]

Jobs will not be created. Some people will be able to go back to work. They will not produce as many vehicles as in years past, but they will need to re-stock.

Negative, inventories are still too high.... The only one that's increases production is Toyota.

[race66]

With the "clunkers" program; it's not mandatory that folks take part

sorry our participation IS mandatory.

It's my tax dollars and yours that fund the program.

WE are taking part. Like it or not.

And I would prefer NOT to participate.

[mojoguy]

sorry our participation IS mandatory.

It's my tax dollars and yours that fund the program.

WE are taking part. Like it or not.

And I would prefer NOT to participate.

Huh....logic again, oh man whats this nation coming to ? :thumbup:

[crew]

sorry our participation IS mandatory.

It's my tax dollars and yours that fund the program.

WE are taking part. Like it or not.

And I would prefer NOT to participate.

That's why we have a representative government ...

The constitution and all that jazz ...

Elections have consequences ...

... ask folks how they feel about paying for President Bush's program of wiretapping without warrants and monitoring e-mails ...

but ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:

[JP Huss]

No, no one is forced to use the program, but what does that have to do with anything?

We ALL pay for it and it's NOT money well spent. But you probably think that the dems spending 400 billion on pork during a financial "crisis" was okay too.

Remember that thing called a deficit?

__________________________________________________ ________

I Remember a surplus when the Democrats controlled the White House and Congress.... Remember them days!

Ok, here it comes, what will the Rush Limbaugh reply be??? :popcorn:

[Glennok]

Did someone just fart?

[Duug]

Did someone just fart?

http://bestsmileys.com/rude/9.gif

[slacks]

Negative, inventories are still too high.... The only one that's increases production is Toyota.

I'm at an auto auction almost every week, and using nationwide auction sales data daily. Demand for vehicles is waaaay up right now at auctions. The big metal that made the big margins (and sucked the most gas) may not be moving as well, but overall both used and new sales are doing much better.

[Glennok]

I'm at an auto auction almost every week, and using nationwide auction sales data daily. Demand for vehicles is waaaay up right now at auctions. The big metal that made the big margins (and sucked the most gas) may not be moving as well, but overall both used and new sales are doing much better.
I think auction numbers are up because of all the closed dealerships. I know our Dodge dealership here is buying tons of used cars to offset their loss of Chrysler products. They still sell Honda's.

[trucktrain]

Simple math. I own a 94 POS Dodge Caravan, a 1999 Ford Explorer, both paid for and the X, still payin' for. I have a decent job. I know my limits. With house payment, insurance, power, taxes, phone, internet, dish, medical to Dr's and Hosp, gasoline, food and I'm sure I've left a few things out, I can't afford to add a car payment and higher insurance rate. So, actually, this program will COST me money down the road. Gotta go to work... I'm out.

[guido69]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32394221/ns/business-autos/

Even better news today.

[iuhoosier1992]

It looks like we aren't being told the whole story according to this article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_clunkers_not_so_green

Why won't the administration release the list of cars sold? They have the information.

[2002_1800C]

:D

[slacks]

I think auction numbers are up because of all the closed dealerships. I know our Dodge dealership here is buying tons of used cars to offset their loss of Chrysler products. They still sell Honda's.

Not sure on that, its possible but I don't have numbers on dealers that closed. Here in my neck of the woods, few have closed and some struggled. But now they are just trying not to run out. However, my data is nationwide and the market is up most everywhere. Of course all it takes is a minor gunfight with Iran and gas will spike again and all bets are off. Been in the biz for over 10 years and this is definately the most volitile I've ever seen it.