Electrical System Reliability on Long-Haul Rides

[danX]

Are there any components of the X's electrical system that seem to be less reliable on long trips, on wet trips, or on trips that require running on rough roads?

I'm prepping for a long trip into Canada and Alaska in the next couple of years, and I have an opportunity right now to work through my electrical system with a skilled avionics electronics X-rider. If there are components that typically cause problems under the above conditions, then I'd like to try to prevent the problem or be prepared to cope with it on the road.

We're going to systematically work through all circuits by examining the wiring to ensure that the connections are secure, and the wiring isn't subject to unnecessary wear and abrasion. We'll calculate the total system load (I'm adding a Stebel Horn, a Kury Charging Status Indicator, and an Accessory Plug) to set up my strategy for future add-ons. We want to retain the basic scheme so that the system can be trouble-shot by anyone who has access to an X electrical schematic.

My friend said that in his experience the most reliable connections are soldered connections rather than crimped connections, but he wasn't necessarily recommending that we solder all connections. Does anyone have any sense of whether it makes sense to solder some or all of the connections? If it makes sense to solder some of the connections, which ones?

He asked me if I'd like to convert my connections to Cannon connectors, which apparently is a highly-reliable type of connector and can be used to increase reliability of circuits in difficult environments. Again, he wasn't recommending that I do this; he was saying it was an alternative which was within his technical skill to complete. Although the cost would be about $200 for the connections, I would be willing to make this modification if it would significantly improve the reliability of the electrical system of my X. On the other hand, if converting to Cannon connectors would be useless over-speccing, then I wouldn't want to do it.

Here is a summary of the questions I'm asking.

1) Does the X have any electrical components that are particularly vulnerable in long-distance, wet, or rough travel conditions? If so, what are they?

2) Should I consider soldering all or some of the connections instead of using crimped connections? If some of the connections could be soldered to improve their reliability, which ones?

3) Should I convert my system to Cannon connectors, or other high-reliability connectors that could function in mil-spec or other demanding environments?

Here are the after-market electrical add-ons that I currently have, or will have within the month:

Honda Light Bar
Signal Dynamics Headlight Modulator
Signal Dynamics Brakelight Modulator
Stebel Nautilus Air Horn
Kury Battery Gauge
Accessory Plug with Two Outlets

All lighting bulbs are stock, and will probably stay stock unless I have to reduce draw on the system to free-up the system to support another add-on. At that point, I might have to go to LED lighting (I think I understand that LED lighting draws less power from the system).


Any and all feedback is invited. I'm not at all skilled in electronics, so if something I said doesn't make sense, or if you think I might have mis-characterized or misunderstood what my electronics-tech X-rider said, please correct me. Thanks for any advice or feedback that you have.

[gary n]

I don't know about most of that stuff but I will give you my experience with soldered vs crimped. I had a 1995 Big Dog that was one of the first bikes that they built. I had several electrical problems that were caused by the soldered connectors. My mechanic told me that it was caused by the soldered connections breaking caused by the vibration. He said that Big Dog had stopped soldering the connections. I never had more problems from the soldered connections that were replaced with the crimped connectors. I think that he is right - that soldered connections are better in most cases, but the vibration from a big v-twin engine and the road create some special conditions.

Good luck on your trip to Alaska. I have considered it but I don't know if I am ready for that one yet. I have taken three 4500 mile trips over the years and really enjoy traveling on a bike.

[Lax]

The grounds to the coils tend to rust on the 1800. Check out 'Easy Guide to Fixing Grounding Problems of Honda VTX 1800.'

http://tech.vtxoa.com/index.php?action=artikel&cat=14&id=33&artlang=en

[danX]

Thanks, Gary N. ... I appreciate the comments about the difference between soldered and crimped connections. What you say makes sense to me ... that soldered connections can't stand up to the vibration of the v-twin.

I'm taking an intermediate trip this next summer. Thought I'd ride from southeast Nebraska to Calgary or points north. Eventually, I'd like to ride in Western China and perhaps across Siberia, if those countries remain safe for U.S. visitors. I'd have to fly over and rent a bike, but I've discovered that there are motorcycle touring companies that put together tours in nearly every part of the world. For now, I want to go north across part of Canada and then spend a couple of weeks in Alaska--an intermediate trip next summer and then the full trip the summer after that (2007), if gas isn't $10/gal. by then :(

[WS11MB]

I rode from Maryland to Laconia for Bike Week and back.
The conditions ranged from 110 degrees stuck at the GW bridge toll booth, the Harleys got very nervous.
To a solid week of 50 degree downpours in New Hampshire. My bike (2002 1800 retro) did not have any problems at all.

[doc_cj]

1) Does the X have any electrical components that are particularly vulnerable in long-distance, wet, or rough travel conditions? If so, what are they?


I have not personally had problems with my VTX 1800R, and I’ve added some additional stuff on top of what you’ve got. I’ll get to that later. I have heard two other X riders who complained about a grounding problem. Here’s a link that might help:

http://tech.vtxoa.com/index.php?action= ... artlang=en (http://tech.vtxoa.com/index.php?action=artikel&cat=14&id=33&artlang=en)


2) Should I consider soldering all or some of the connections instead of using crimped connections? If some of the connections could be soldered to improve their reliability, which ones?

I generally prefer solder (if you can do it right) for all permanent connections or those that may have a chance of shaking lose. This is just my personal preference, and I am far from an electrical expert, but when I evaluate the choice I ask myself the simple question of what could go wrong with this connection?

I started looking at this way back when I was playing with Radio Controlled Airplanes. One of the “experts” used to complain all the time about how crimping was a lazy man’s way to complete the job. So one day I asked him why solder was preferred. Here’s what he said (and it seems logical to me so I’m passing it along):

Do NOT solder where heat is going to be a problem. This means be careful with wires around the engine or exhaust. It also means be careful of heat buildup at power connection points. These wires will draw electricity to other parts and will get hotter, so if you happen to over draw for an add on part you could have connection problems with solder.

Do NOT crimp when line pull is present. This means, if the wire is going to have any tension on it then stay away from crimping. Crimping basically smashes the wires together – much like holding them tight between your fingers – and if there is tension on the wires then the crimp may not hold. Soldering is much closer to welding which causes a fusing of the wire with the metal solder, and that is supposed to withstand tension better.

It’s also worth noting that lose wires can be blown around on a bike, so that would put some tension on the wires as well. I found that out the hard way when I added a power outlet to an older bike I had. The wind came up under the seat to blow the wire around just enough to jostle the crimp connection lose. I now solder that type of stuff.

Solder when time allows and crimp when in a hurry. At least that’s how I tend to look at it.




3) Should I convert my system to Cannon connectors, or other high-reliability connectors that could function in mil-spec or other demanding environments?

Not even going to try this one.

A couple comments worth noting in addition to what you’ve asked about. The VTX is not like the Goldwing in the sense that it was not necessarily made to add a LOT of accessories. You will want to really watch the draw you take from the electrical system. A number of riders have complained that too many accessories may interfere with the battery charge cycle.

In my case I have added some additional LED lights (6 of them) which are all running on a new circuit I installed. I also added an accessory outlet that I can use to run a laptop or other small devise. I am running these through a new fuse block which should help me isolate potential overpower problems if they do occur.

As for the laptop, I do not normally run it from the motorcycle outlet. I simply use the outlet as a trickle charger (draws about 3 watts only) for charging the laptop battery while going down the road. So far I’ve not been in a position where I could not run the laptop off the battery while sitting still and then charge (laptop off) while driving.

I’ve considered adding a MP3 player to my road arsenal as well, but haven’t decided how I’ll tackle the charge issue. A friend who rides a Goldwing has a small battery charger for AA batteries that he leaves plugged in all the time. He simply runs the MP3 player off the AA batteries and then swaps them for freshly charged from the trunk every few hours. It works sort of like my system for the laptop, so I’m not sure it would be that bad for the VTX. Your drawing all the power for the full use, just the trickle for the recharging.

[danX]

Thanks for your detailed response, doc_cj. It was very helpful. I understand perfectly what you're saying about when to solder and when to crimp. Makes total sense to me.


Here's what we're doing to facilitate accessories ... from his PM to me:

"Here is a posible circuit box lay-out:

Circuit #/ Fuse/ Switched/ Item/ Wire gauge/
1/ 30 Amp/ No*/ Horn/ 14 awg
2/ 10 Amp/ No*/ Driving lights/ 18 awg
3/ 10 Amp / No/ Power socket #1/ 18 awg
4/ 10 Amp/ Yes/ Power socket #2/ 18 awg
5/ 5 Amp /Yes/ Battery meter/ 18 awg
6/ Future/ Yes/ Future/ NA

Note* Switched by relay post fuse
Your headlight modulator and brake light box are powered of the circuits their controlling, I do not suggest running these circuit through the aux fuse box.

Circuit # 3 is live all the time and could be used as a easy contion point for your battery tender in the winter. "


He's building a fuse box with annunciator LED's and a test-button to test fuses without having to pull them. He's just about finished, so within a week or so I should have the new system installed.

Thanks again for your detailed, on-point response.

[doc_cj]

Sounds like you guys are all on the right track. From what you’ve posted I’d say the layout looks pretty good, but there are a couple other items to throw into the mix. These might help others who are also considering some new wiring.

Since I first read this post I’ve chatted with some of the local riders – especially the Wing riders – to see what other problems or examples they could provide. One of the riders uses an Accessory Connector and Electrical Isolator sold through Kriss Motorcycle products:

http://www.kriss.com/

Here’s the information from their website:

1. Each circuit is individually protected from overload or short circuits.
2. It works on any 12 volt standard negative ground system, even on automobiles.
3. Isolates the circuits by powering the accessories through the accessory connector and avoiding any power carrying connections to the motorcycle wiring.
4. Hides the load from computer or circuit monitoring devices.
5. Control of each accessory for turning On or Off is through the accessory connector so low amperage switches can be used rather than high amp switches. If you have battery problems it's imperative that non essential electric's be quickly turned off .

The fuse block I’m using is not as sophisticated, so it does not do #4 – and I’m not sure how much that will affect overall performance. I think in my case I’m drawing such a small amount of power (a few watts at a time) that it doesn’t show up or is simply being ignored. But the idea of totally isolating is certainly one worth looking into.

When I did my wiring I found a basic wiring diagram (I didn’t have the VTX manual) for common motorcycle wiring. I’ve posted it at my website:

http://carlf.home.bresnan.net/motorcyclewiring.jpg

The VTX is a bit different (electronic ignition instead of points, etc.), but the same idea still applies for lights, horn, etc. You can quickly see that 10 and 15 amp fuses are common, so you’re on the right track.

Good luck with the project.

[Todd2]

I've loaded my X with electrical accessories. The one weak spot no one has mentioned yet is the starter button. Do not wire your driving lights to remain 'on' when the starter button is pushed - it will eventually melt the internal connections of the switch. Search the tech board for descriptions. The ground fix, mentioned previously, is another area of concern. Other than that, I have ridden through horrendous downpours and kept on going without any problems at all.

Good luck and have fun on your trip.



Todd

[Mr X]

This summer, I made an 11,300 mile trip around the US with a trailer in tow. http://www.photobucket.com/albums/b381/wdmix The only things the bike required during the trip was: 1.) replace worn out tires at 7500 miles due to wear caused by extreme crosswinds - had put on a new set 2 days before starting trip, 2.) replaced rear brake pads - 14K original miles, 3.) replaced both lightbar elements that burned out about 1K miles apart, 4.) two oil changes - engine & diff. In addition to the triple digit heat from NV to TX and accompanying extreme crosswinds, I rode in the remnants tropical storm Cindy and hurricane Dennis with water up to the frame during one downpour. The bike never changed in performance or ability. The VTX is meant to be ridden and will do so with reliability. Electrical additions: lightbar, air horns, extra lighting in rear plus trailer lights, two 12-volt outlets for charging cell phone, pumping tires/air mattress, and operating GPS.