AUX fuel Cell

[ironmorph]

Ok, as promised here is the prototype of my aux fuel mod at 3.5 extra fuel, my cruising range is greater than 300 miles now. I am ready for the BBG now. http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/1997auxfuel_011-med.jpg

[ironmorph]

I'll try adding multiple photos if I can:


side shot:http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/1997auxfuel_011-med.jpg


quick discon-http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/1997auxfuel_009-med.jpg

shut off:http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/1997auxfuel_007-med.jpg

[ironmorph]

This is the look when you open the top:http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/1997auxfuel_006-med.jpg

[Jackal666us]

is the aux tank just a gravity feed? does the flow keep up with the motor? or are you using an electric pump of some kind? i would love to do this to my bike. thanks.

[ironmorph]

is the aux tank just a gravity feed? does the flow keep up with the motor? or are you using an electric pump of some kind? i would love to do this to my bike. thanks.

It is gravity feed. I ran a 3/8 line, there is no difference in the feed source to the motor. I like the operation it allows me the freedom to stop when I want to. It should come this way from the factory. 8)

[Todd2]

Jack, you have an 1800 w/ fuel injection. Iron has a 1300 w/o fuel injection. He can gravity feed. Others with 1800s have had to install a low pressure fuel pump to overcome the FI return line pressure. Its not much pressure, but they say it will backfeed your aux. fuel tank. (I have not verified this, or tried it with a gravity feed system.) I'm in the process of adding a fuel pump now. I'll post pics like Ironmorph did in this thread when I finish my install.

I need to complete mine with a foolproof design to run the IBA BBG in a couple of weeks. Afterwards, I may experiment with a gravity feed system by tapping into the fuel tank (fuel pump plate) to feed from my aux tank. Who knows, if I'll have the time.

I just remembered, you have an F model- your fuel pump is external from your tank (mine is internal). You have feed and return lines coming out the rear of your tank (also a vent hose) - so yours will be different. If you tap into your return line (between the pressure regulator in the throttle bodies and the tank), you will probably need another low press aux fuel pump, like my C model. But, if you tap into the feed line(between the tank to your existing fuel pump) - you should be able to gravity feed your aux. tank (just put an inline valve to stop the flow of the aux tank so you don't overflow your manin tank). Hmmmmmmmmmm................. that just might work perfectly - lucky you!. Whatever you do, do not splice into the line between your fuel pump and your throttle bodies - that's the high pressure line.

Let us know how it goes.

Todd

[Jackal666us]

i'll look into that, great idea!! as long as i don't make a flame thrower out of it it should work fine. i quess there is no easy way to make it so you don't have to worry about switching tanks manually while riding, but onthe other hand it's not really a big deal. it is great that the pump is outside the tank. so i should be alright if i just cut into the main line just before the pump and put a switching valve in?

[Woot!]

Thats a great looking tank, why cover it? You know, hmmm, you could paint that up like a can of your favorite brew or perhaps a kegger. Lots of possibilities.

[Jackal666us]

i think i'm ready to actually buy the tank and parts. now the question is: 5 gallon or 3.5 gallon? leaning towards 3.5 only because i think it will look better. any suggestions?

[ironmorph]

I would go with the 3.5 only because I think you will be over the limit with the 5 gal for IBA stuff you might want to do. Plus the 3.5 is large enough, both for size and weight distribution. I was going to go with the 2 gal tank, but I wanted to get 300 miles without stopping. 8)

[ironmorph]

Thats a great looking tank, why cover it? You know, hmmm, you could paint that up like a can of your favorite brew or perhaps a kegger. Lots of possibilities.

It's too temping for someone to sabotage. I need a locking cap for the thing as well. 8)

[Todd2]

Ironmorph,

Let me know if you find a good looking (chrome) locking, vented, gas cap. Thanks. Believe it or not, I actually thought about sabotage before, but almost dismissed it, here in the USA (Mexico would be a different story). Still probably not a bad idea to lock it up.

I pumped fuel out of my aux. tank into a can for the first time last night. :) It pumped 1/2 gal/min. It made no difference if the aux tank's cap was on or off. The supplied cap vents just fine. The aux. tank will gravity feed through the pump so I will need to use a cut off valve (already installed). I hope to have it plumbed into the FI return line this weekend. Last concern is how well it will pump against the return line pressure. I don't think it'll be a problem (hopefully). So far, so good.

Todd

[Todd2]

i think i'm ready to actually buy the tank and parts. now the question is: 5 gallon or 3.5 gallon? leaning towards 3.5 only because i think it will look better. any suggestions?

I don't think they sold the 5 gal tank when I bought my 3.5 gal (has it really been that long?). The 5 gal will weight ~35 lbs while the 3.5 gal will weigh in at ~26 lbs (tank, mounting hardware and fuel). The 5 gal is also 10" in daimeter and the 3.5 is 8". My 3.5 would not bolt to the stock Honda rear shelf (the rear mounting holes hung over a little - so I fabbed mounting plates). So the 5 gal would hang over by an additional 2 inches and be 2" taller. Also, the rear shelf is 'rated' at 6.6 lbs. I used larger bolts to secure the shelf to the side supports. This wouldn't be a problem if you mounted yours like Ironmorph's.

Some things to consider. I know this doesn't really help without pics - I'll try to post this weekend, so you can compare.

Todd

[N2theX]

I have a friend that took his aux tank that he mounted on the luggage rack and had a leather shell made for it by a local boot shop. It looks sweet and nobody can tell that it is an aux fuel cell. If anyone is interested I think I can come up with some pics.

[ironmorph]

I have a friend that took his aux tank that he mounted on the luggage rack and had a leather shell made for it by a local boot shop. It looks sweet and nobody can tell that it is an aux fuel cell. If anyone is interested I think I can come up with some pics.
I am, send in the pics oh pics!

[Todd2]

Please do. I thought of the duffle bag idea (like Ironmorph's), a bed liner type idea, and a leather cover idea to make it look more like those tubular tourpacks (I think that's what you are talking about). G/F siad she liked the "beer keg" look :roll: Well, that's a good thing, since I wanted to mount one to her V-Star 1000 also, so we could ride x-country together. Thanks.

Todd

[VTProf]

Ironmorph,

That is an awesome looking system you've installed! Congrats for being so progressive.

I know a few "cruiser" riders think that fuel cells look ridiculous and might give you crap.

Just ignore them as you're sitting enjoying a cool one long before they even get off the road!

I did find this http://www.customtankbags.com/ that you might find interesting.

Enjoy the ride!

Jim

[Todd2]

Nice alternative VTProf. Thanks for the link.

Well, the dam* dog knocked my gas can off my creeper seat all over me and the garage floor. Dam* stray. I'da killed that girl by now, 'ceptin' she loves me too much (hangs with me where ever I go, and just lays there and stares at...whatever - periodically comes over to give kisses, for no reason). Dam* stray. Besides, she sleeps on the foot of my bed every night. Dam* stray. Well, there's always tomorrow (once the smell evaporates off). Gotta go wash this burning fuel off of me and go to bed - with my Dam* stray.

Todd

P.S. He!!, she's only about 2 - doesn't seem to like gas cans much anymore (or that couch I had to get rid of :shock: ) - Damn* stray.

[ironmorph]

Ironmorph,

That is an awesome looking system you've installed! Congrats for being so progressive.

I know a few "cruiser" riders think that fuel cells look ridiculous and might give you crap.

Just ignore them as you're sitting enjoying a cool one long before they even get off the road!

I did find this http://www.customtankbags.com/ that you might find interesting.

Enjoy the ride!

Jim

Thanks Jim,

I have gotten some grief over this, but I'm pretty thick skinned. Like I said, I am inovating and this thing will change this weekend I am sure. I like riding much longer than most people, so I guess this was a natural progression for me. Thanks for the links.

Clem 8)

[ironmorph]

Chnaged aux fuel to horizontal becasue I did not want to lose all my luggage space.http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/19972ndtryauxfuel_012-med.jpg

covered up to protect the skin a bithttp://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/19972ndtryauxfuel_014-med.jpg

happy trails 8)

[Todd2]

Ironmorph,

I like your latest set up better. Looks like something I'd do. :wink: How does it travel (weight cantelevered out there)? You got another bag too - looks like it fits tighter than the last one I saw. I like it. This set-up ought to really look good when you carry luggage on your rack - no one would know it was an aux. gas tank, if the cap were blacked out, or a cloth flap were velcroed over the cap. My set up, in its current configuration, looks exactly like another gas tank - no getting around it. I still have not decided what I'm going to do with it. I wonder what black anodized spun aluminum looks like?????? Hmmmmmmmmmm..........

I'm still not pleased with the amount of time it takes to empty my aux. tank. I'm thinking of welding a 5/16" nipple into the fuel pump plate that bolts to the side of the tank. That way it wouldn't have to overcome the FI return line pressure. And if I messed it up, I wouldn't ruin the tank, only the plate.

Oh yeah, I still have to mount one to my G/F's bike, too. I think I'll leave mine alone for a while and see how it works on my BBG run. Maybe it'll grow on me.

Hope you had a good ride today. Take care and good luck on your BBG.

Todd

[ironmorph]

Thanks Todd,

We rode nearly 275 non stop miles today. We stopped for fuel at our convenience. The Mrs, hates her tank, cause she wants to stop more often.

The tank travels great, about like it did before, hardly notice it at all. I used very strong channel, which can support over 150 pounds out there. It looks likes it far, but look at your in relation to your light, it is right above it. It rides as does one on a rack with the rear seat in.

I have had no problems with mine so far. I am keeping it on for now.

Good luck with your BBG as well. I am about to start a post concerning tips for sustained time in the seat. 8)

[The Beast]

I haven't tried this yet, but posted this on the tech board in response to a question about plumbing up the Tour Tank. I will get around to doing this at some point, but thought you true long haul VTXers might be able to try it first. Also, this will only work on a tank that has a non-vented fuel cap and a separate fuel vent line (like the 1800).

You should be able to disconnect the fuel vent line from the main tank and connect it to an aux tank. As the fuel leaves the main tank the vent will siphon fuel from the aux to the main and keep the main tank full. Additionally, if you connect the line to the top of the aux tank with a "straw" down to the bottom of the aux tank, it won't gravity fill the main and it will still be safe to take off the cap of the main tank without fear of overflow. Obviously, this setup will use the vent for the aux tank as a total system vent.

Best thing about this is it's super simple and can be back to stock by simply reconnecting the stock vent hose. Again, I haven't tried this on my bike...yet...but a similar system is in use on a recent aircraft project that I am finishing up.

[Todd2]

Beast,

Thanks for the tip using the vent line. That was going to be my Version 3 attempt. I'm still on Version 1 (following suggestions from others who have made this mod) until I complete the BBG. (Version 2 will be a freeflow attempt.) It works now, but I do not like the idea of relying on an aux fuel pump - just more to go wrong in BFE. BTW - the vent line set-up is what they use on the V-Rods. They say it works great! I do not know what size the vent line is on the V-Rod, but its small on the VTX, something like 1/8".

Using your suggested vent line set-up, I was hoping I wouldn't even need a valve to separate the tanks. It would work like this: fill the main tank and immmediately close the cap, then quickly fill the aux. tank (to avoid backflowing). Then just ride until the low fuel light comes on, and repeat. Just don't open the main tank cap untill you have drained the aux tank below the main tank cap level. Since no one has tried (posted) this yet, I wonder if the main tank would leak out the cap due to the head pressure of the aux. tank while parked. I know it would vent through the aux.tank cap. (I got a thing about gas soaked nuts.) Any way, its something I'm going to try someday. (I'll carry gas, just in case.) :wink:

Also, I spent quite a bit of time at an airport, working on planes. I always wanted to build a homebuilt (Glasstar), but time is not available for me. Good luck with your plane project. They are a LOT of fun to fly. Good luck.

Todd

[The Beast]

Todd,

I was originally worried about the same thing you are on the flow issues between the two tanks, but if you hook the vent line of the main tank to the TOP of the aux tank with a tube down into the fuel (like a straw) there will be no flow between either tank. You'll be able to open either tank without fear of it flowing to the other. Also, there will be no need for a petcock with this installation, just run the vent line to the top of another vented tank with a "straw" down into the fuel. Should work great. Right now I don't have a rack on my bike or I'd do it immediately. Gotta get a rack and a tank.

Basically, the main tank will just "stay" at whatever level it was when you last filled your aux tank...until the aux tank is empty. Then it'll go down as always. This is because as fuel is drawn out of the main, it just gets replaced with fuel from the aux that is "sucked" through the vent.

And thanks for the encouragement on the airplane project. They are a blast to fly.

[N2theX]

This is the best pic I can find for now of the aux tank on the back of my friends Nomad. I will try to get over to his house and get a better shot that shows the nice leatherwork. Top left picture and click on it for a better view.




http://www.jesus-team.com/adobe/2005/5- ... ndex_5.htm (http://www.jesus-team.com/adobe/2005/5-7-Macksville/index_5.htm)

[N2theX]

I have a friend that took his aux tank that he mounted on the luggage rack and had a leather shell made for it by a local boot shop. It looks sweet and nobody can tell that it is an aux fuel cell. If anyone is interested I think I can come up with some pics.
I am, send in the pics oh pics!

OK you asked for it so here is the pic. If anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong for it to post I would greatly appreciate it.
http://image1.frappr.com/pix1/i/20060416/0/1/3/01364c43169cd34b07037368dc85b0730

[ironmorph]

how about this 8)

http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/1997tankcover-med.jpg

[N2theX]

Thanks, I think that using frapper is the problem. So what do you guys think about the aux tank bag in the pic?

[ironmorph]

very neat, very nice...but... how much? 8)

[JORGEX1800]

ironmorph im so sorry i dint get to meet you last sunday. got to holiday park about 5 minutes before you all left but i had to turn back home. the oil light on my bike came on and it is still on the dealer getting it look at. maybe next time. i have beeing following this subject as i like the long distance rides and came upon this fuel pump . what do you or tood think of it. i have an 1800r 2003. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... tpumps.php (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php)

[ironmorph]

ironmorph im so sorry i dint get to meet you last sunday. got to holiday park about 5 minutes before you all left but i had to turn back home. the oil light on my bike came on and it is still on the dealer getting it look at. maybe next time. i have beeing following this subject as i like the long distance rides and came upon this fuel pump . what do you or tood think of it. i have an 1800r 2003. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... tpumps.php (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php)

I heard about your unexpected misfortune, I would have liked to meet you as well. We will I am sure in time. Todd has the tank on the 1800, and I see by his posts on it that he feels it works great. I have it on my 1300, I love my tank, it's gravity feed and I don't want to take it off my bike. It's just nice knowing I have plenty of gas to get to most one day rides.

I am doing another long distance ride soon. Going to Colorado in June. If you want to ride, that will be the one to go on for sure.

Take care 8)

[JORGEX1800]

i will be going with Hal and a bunch more to South Dakota and back by way of Colorado, New Mexico and more. About 5800 hundre miles more or less. check the post. http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=107253

[Todd2]

Jorgex1800,

The 4-6 PSI pump should work for you, but it won't pump very fast (15-25 min to transfer 3 gallons). I estimate our return line pressure is near 5 PSI so the pump will have to overcome that first before being able to transfer any fuel. However, I do like the 'solid state' design of this pump. Let us know how it turns out.

Todd