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Death the result of Idiocy

3K views 46 replies 23 participants last post by  ClevelandRocks 
#1 ·
#3 ·
Many local clubs around here will utilize trucks as blockers on larger runs. Now just because you see someone blocking for you doesn't mean you enter the intersection without caution... :roll:
 
#6 ·
The "road guard' who was sitting in the intersection probably distracted her attention , the driver didn't hit anyone
Not sure what your point is here, but, if only for self preservation purposes, you have to make sure an intersection is clear before you enter it. Next time it may be a tractor and trailer blowing the light, or a pedestrian crossing on red. She effed up every bit as bad as the bikers.

All that aside, I don't think she wanted to wait and tried to beat the bikes. She prolly felt justified in doing so since she had the green light. It's hard to miss nearly a hundred bikes riding straight at you. By reading her account it doesn't seem as though she accepts any responsibility for what happened. She still feels justified even though the death is half her fault.
 
#7 ·
I say the motorcyclists were totally at fault though tragic in the end. I've ridden numerous PGR missions both with and without Police escort and in the North Texas PGR have never seen one of our group acting as road guards and trying to stop or control the flow of cage traffic. I routinely see funeral escorts services performing road guard duties however and most people respectfully yield to them and the funeral procession.
 
#8 ·
It's a sad day when someone on a bike dies, no matter the reason. The argument that by blocking traffic for large groups of bikes makes it safer for everyone just does not fly with me. An unmarked bike without any flashing lights trying to block traffic is asking for trouble. Joe blow roadguard is putting his neck on the line by putting himself and his bike in between oncoming traffic and the other bikes, all it takes is one person not paying attention, as in this case. I would never risk it, and lately I've stopped riding on group rides completely, save for one that is escorted by the state police. I just don't understand the sense of entitlement because it's a group of bikes. In the end, you are just individual motor vehicles just like everyone else.
 
#9 ·
I say the motorcyclists were totally at fault though tragic in the end. I've ridden numerous PGR missions both with and without Police escort and in the North Texas PGR have never seen one of our group acting as road guards and trying to stop or control the flow of cage traffic. I routinely see funeral escorts services performing road guard duties however and most people respectfully yield to them and the funeral procession.
Legally, maybe. The car did have the right of way. You don't feel that we're all responsible for making sure an intersection is clear before entering?
 
#10 ·
Common Sence???

I think if a large group of bikes are running together they should brake up the long line to let others get through intersections or crossroads. They can regroup after a stop and get wherever together and not be at risk of an accident or a citation.
It’s easer to ride with your head out of you butt.

:bump:
 
#11 ·
It's a sad day when someone on a bike dies, no matter the reason. The argument that by blocking traffic for large groups of bikes makes it safer for everyone just does not fly with me. An unmarked bike without any flashing lights trying to block traffic is asking for trouble. Joe blow roadguard is putting his neck on the line by putting himself and his bike in between oncoming traffic and the other bikes, all it takes is one person not paying attention, as in this case. I would never risk it, and lately I've stopped riding on group rides completely, save for one that is escorted by the state police. I just don't understand the sense of entitlement because it's a group of bikes. In the end, you are just individual motor vehicles just like everyone else.
Well said and agree...

Bull
 
#13 ·
Legally, maybe. The car did have the right of way. You don't feel that we're all responsible for making sure an intersection is clear before entering?
That's a fact! Just because you have the lite doesn't mean you can run into someone. Everyone has the legal obligation to avoid a collision period. It really isn't that difficult if you're looking where you're going.
 
#14 ·
It's a sad day when someone on a bike dies, no matter the reason. The argument that by blocking traffic for large groups of bikes makes it safer for everyone just does not fly with me. An unmarked bike without any flashing lights trying to block traffic is asking for trouble. Joe blow roadguard is putting his neck on the line by putting himself and his bike in between oncoming traffic and the other bikes, all it takes is one person not paying attention, as in this case. I would never risk it, and lately I've stopped riding on group rides completely, save for one that is escorted by the state police. I just don't understand the sense of entitlement because it's a group of bikes. In the end, you are just individual motor vehicles just like everyone else.
Ditto
 
#15 ·
I'm a motor officer up here in WI and many of the larger rides we escort are police led. Usually we do utilize road gaurds. The road gaurds always have to wear reflective vests.

We usually have about 8-10 motors leading the ride and we are utilized for the larger and busier intersections. We usually ride about 10+ seconds in front of the ride to allow the pre-staged road gaurds to get in place. We always make a point to close the intersection down ourselves and try to make others aware of what is going on, before turning control over to the road gaurds.

Thankfully we haven't had any problems in the past years *knock on wood*.

I do agree that a road gaurd should not take it upon themselves to try to stop traffic on their own.....not safe at all no matter how you spin it.

My $.02....ride safe.
 
#17 ·
From the article...

"It's always been one of those things that you just don't know what they're expecting of us. When the laws were written, it was for a single bike or a single car. ... But the laws aren't written for 80-something bikes riding at the same time. There's no clause for that."

It seems to me there is in fact a clause for that and it is that there were "80-something" single bikes. I have only ever been on one large ride and was shocked at how the so-called road guard was used and how he tore up the line of bikes in order to be at the front to block the next intersection. I joined late and was the last bike (the only safe place IMHO) and treated each stop as exactly that. I'm not relying on anyone other than a LEO to stop traffic for me.
As far as as I am concerned you either use a cop or you drive within the law and then re-group after everyone is through. How much of a hurry are you in?
 
#18 ·
Hate to say it, but the PGR group I ride with (SouthEast Texas) blocks the cross streets and freeway on ramps.

A couple of years back, we CAUSED an accident. We were on the freeway and a rider blocked the on ramp. The first few cars had stopped, but the car behind them just kept coming and rear ended the car sitting there. I think he may have been looking at all the motorcycles on the freeway, and even if you can argue the point that he should have been watching the road, fact is, we were the ones (IMHO) that caused the wreck.

I have even gotten tickets for running red lights when at the end of the group (I usually ride tail gunner). The red light cameras catch you and you really don't have any defense. The last one I got was in Conroe, and you can log on to their website and watch a short video of yourself doing it. MAYBE a traffic officer would let you slide, but the cameras don't. Cost me $75.00 plus $4.00 " fee for paying online. I'm just glad it doesn't go on your record.
 
#19 ·
This year for the Lone Star rally in Galveston the wife and I were headed south towards the island on Saturday. There were already hundreds upon hundreds of bikes all headed the same direction adding to the already heavy Houston-area traffic, then some MC gets on the interstate and tries blocking traffic and every on ramp the entire way to Galveston. No cop escorts or anything, just some MC trying to stick together. It was ****ing ridiculous to say the least and one of the worst riding experiences I have ever had. I was actually ashamed to be a part of it all, even though I had nothing to do with the MC. They were cutting cars off and blocking cars & bikes left and right. I could only imagine what joe public in all those cars was thinking of it all, I felt bad for them.
 
#20 ·
That's a fact! Just because you have the lite doesn't mean you can run into someone. Everyone has the legal obligation to avoid a collision period. It really isn't that difficult if you're looking where you're going.

I can't agree more... but how many people now days are looking where their going? I seen a women reading a book driving down the road once. All of us have seen people texting, reading maps, applying makeup... It don't matter who's wrong when you're road kill.
 
#21 ·
Very common practice. Contrary to what they said in the article, the PGR does it all the time.
Maybe in PA they do. Over the 3 years I've been doing missions with the North Texas, East Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Oklahoma PGR, I've never seen any of them doing a road guard. As the Road Captain for the American Legion Riders of Post 14 in Shreveport, LA I won't be a part of any homemade road guard. For one thing, it's dangerous. For another it really pisses off cagers.

Ride Safe
 
#22 ·
Maybe in PA they do. Over the 3 years I've been doing missions with the North Texas, East Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Oklahoma PGR, I've never seen any of them doing a road guard. As the Road Captain for the American Legion Riders of Post 14 in Shreveport, LA I won't be a part of any homemade road guard. For one thing, it's dangerous. For another it really pisses off cagers.

Ride Safe
Do those area LEOs provide escort service, cuz if they do, there's no need. If the LEOs provide escort for a PGR mission, NATURALLY the PGR stands down + allow/prefers them to do so. If not, they do it themselves.
 
#23 ·
Do those area LEOs provide escort service, cuz if they do, there's no need. If the LEOs provide escort for a PGR mission, NATURALLY the PGR stands down + allow/prefers them to do so. If not, they do it themselves.
95% of the time, local LEOs provide escort. Sometimes when the cemetery is outside of a city limits a "townie" will provide escort only to his city limits and then we're on our own. When that happens, the ride captain makes sure that everyone knows where we are going so that if we get separated, we can all get there. But again, I have NEVER ridden a PGR mission where PGR provides road guard. It just isn't done in my area. It sounds as if we have a better relationship with our LEOs down here than what you have. Any time the local sheriff's department is asked to provide escort, all they want to know is what date and time.

Ride Safe
 
#24 ·
It's the riders fault, period. Red lights mean you stop and stay out of that intersection. Just because you are riding with buddies or a group does NOT put us above the laws that pertain to every vehicle on the road. This is one of the main reasons I do not like to ride in large groups.

The car driver does not owe any explanation as to why she did or didn't see the bikes. Her light was green, it is the responsibility of the other vehicles that are facing the red light to stop.
 
#25 ·
Leos or funeral escorts provide road guards for PGR missions I've been to. Haven't even heard of PGR doing it themselves. Can't imagine them taking on the liability.
 
#26 ·
Not sure what your point is here, but, if only for self preservation purposes, you have to make sure an intersection is clear before you enter it. Next time it may be a tractor and trailer blowing the light, or a pedestrian crossing on red. She effed up every bit as bad as the bikers.

All that aside, I don't think she wanted to wait and tried to beat the bikes. She prolly felt justified in doing so since she had the green light. It's hard to miss nearly a hundred bikes riding straight at you. By reading her account it doesn't seem as though she accepts any responsibility for what happened. She still feels justified even though the death is half her fault.

Just speculation on your part. You have no idea what she was thinking. If she had the green light and the road guard was not directly in front of her, she very well may not have understood what they were trying to do. One thing is clear to me, every motorcycle that hit her was in the wrong. She may have been wrong for pulling into the intersection as well, but the bikers ran the light.
 
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