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    Senior Member BIGRED455's Avatar
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    Default Harley Crankshaft run out

    This is not posted to piss off any owners of Harleys,infact I hope this doesnt effect Too many owners. This is a very lame move by Harley to up the runout of the crank so when measured they can say "Your crank is fine" Like I said before I love the Street Bob model,but just the looks,I wouldn't take it any further. The 96 ci has more flaws than Harley will admit. This is just one isolated mechanical denial,the 96ci also has a memo out for the countershaft bearing to be replaced at 15,000 as regular mainteance. Harley Davidson owners need to stick together and instead of paying out of pocket for the companys engineering faults,hold Harley responsible. Until Harley proves to me they can build a motor and tranny that can carry some longetivity,Give me my metrics. Again, I am not out to make this a Metric vs Harley ,I find Harley Davidson NOT THE RIDER,a disgrace .
    http://www.hdforums.com/forum/engine...or-2008-a.html
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    Senior Member Gonzo1970's Avatar
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    I was talking with my dad (Ultra) and the conversation went like this:

    Dad: "Yeah, Im thinking about a big bore kit, cams, etc.. "

    Me: "Why?"

    Dad: "Well, its got to be torn down anyway"

    Me: "What? Why the hell does it need to be torn down"

    Dad: "The Timing Belt Tensioners didnt work that year, so as the chain stretches, it doesnt have any tension being put on it to take up the slack, so it could skip and ruin the motor.. so, its gotta be torn down and replaced, and while they're in there, I figured what the hell..."


    I just sat there with a confused look on my face thinking.. You've gotta be ****ting me... The motor has a known fault, and you're paying to have it torn down? And to boot, you're going to pay them MORE to Modify it while its torn down? Sounds like a damn scam to sell big bore kits to me...

    But, whatever.... hes happy... thats what counts...

    -Gonz
    Harley Owners Need Dependable Alternatives
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    Senior Member JOSHWALEE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo1970 View Post
    I was talking with my dad (Ultra) and the conversation went like this:

    Dad: "Yeah, Im thinking about a big bore kit, cams, etc.. "

    Me: "Why?"

    Dad: "Well, its got to be torn down anyway"

    Me: "What? Why the hell does it need to be torn down"

    Dad: "The Timing Belt Tensioners didnt work that year, so as the chain stretches, it doesnt have any tension being put on it to take up the slack, so it could skip and ruin the motor.. so, its gotta be torn down and replaced, and while they're in there, I figured what the hell..."


    I just sat there with a confused look on my face thinking.. You've gotta be ****ting me... The motor has a known fault, and you're paying to have it torn down? And to boot, you're going to pay them MORE to Modify it while its torn down? Sounds like a damn scam to sell big bore kits to me...

    But, whatever.... hes happy... thats what counts...

    -Gonz
    That's been an issue for some time now! #1 reason why many HD guys have them switched over to gears and ditch the chain. Even the gear setup has a somewhat short lifespan though.

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    Sounds like my 2000 Road King cam bearing all over again. HD had a known problem w rear cam bearings flying apart but would only fix it AFTER it grenaded. I ended up replacing the bearing at my cost rather than waiting for it to happen and leave me stranded somewhere. Talk about leaving a bad taste in your mouth. I called HD and they said basically tough luck until it breaks. I told cust serv that was the last HD I'll ever buy if they weasle out of this, which they did. It was the last HD I ever bought and will never buy another one. Sold the HD and bought a VALK and never looked back. SOB's.
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    Senior Member Gonzo1970's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOSHWALEE View Post
    That's been an issue for some time now! #1 reason why many HD guys have them switched over to gears and ditch the chain. Even the gear setup has a somewhat short lifespan though.
    Quote Originally Posted by NAPHZA View Post
    Sounds like my 2000 Road King cam bearing all over again. HD had a known problem w rear cam bearings flying apart but would only fix it AFTER it grenaded. I ended up replacing the bearing at my cost rather than waiting for it to happen and leave me stranded somewhere. Talk about leaving a bad taste in your mouth. I called HD and they said basically tough luck until it breaks. I told cust serv that was the last HD I'll ever buy if they weasle out of this, which they did. It was the last HD I ever bought and will never buy another one. Sold the HD and bought a VALK and never looked back. SOB's.

    Ive heard stores like my own and those two above.. this is the main complaint of many HD owners.. problems, and fighting with them to get the problems covered under warranty...

    Granted, not all owners.. but I hear more complaints than compliments..

    -Gonz
    Harley Owners Need Dependable Alternatives
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    Also, clown noses for the reporters would be nice."

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    My brother in law in going through that right now with them. He asked me what has been done to my motor since it has 50K+ miles on it. I told him it gets new oil every so often but that is it.

    He is on his third Harley and has never made it 30K miles with out a tear down of the motor.

    I will stick with my rice burner.
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    Senior Member ClevelandRocks's Avatar
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    Hey, fer $25-30K whatdayah want?

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    Soooo, what do the "bros." on the Harley forums think about all these issues?? I'm sure they don't give a FK and Harleys are still the best damn bike on the rode. I've owned one and can speak from experiance, It's nothing but an image thing. When I had my Harley I realized that I want to enjoy riding again instead of worrying about how much $$$ I was dumping in that fkn bike so I could keep it on the road. At one point I was desperate to get rid of it so I could get an X and enjoy riding once again. Finally my day came and some dumbass actually traded me his VTX 1800 with about 7800 miles on it for my 81 shovel. his lose, my gain.
    2003 1800c GONE. 2004 919 ON THE WAY!

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    Senior Member bigman8640's Avatar
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    Holy crud! I have heard the spill back and forth sometimes, but thought a lot of it was some folks that purchased a jap bike and could not afford an HD and were sour and some of the nasty HD riders ticked off cause they went from a jap bike to a basket case HD.

    I initially really liked two bikes, my X and the Road King, but have spoken to some that have both and they say it is worth all the extra money just to have HD.

    A new friend who recently joined the church was over the other night and wanted a closer look at my bike. While we were in my building he was talking about the X being nice and then said he used to have a 2000 road king and I was like aw crap here we go.

    His story was more like these. Said he went to Myrtle Beach once and it cost him lotsa $$$$$$$ in repairs. I got my X and love the darn machine, and occasionally I see that road king that looks so good, but think hell mines paid for, and with my vtxoa forum I can do anything to it myself, so to each their own.

    Not everyone has these problems, but I would be one that did.

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    I was just tired wondering if it was being jacked and always peeking through windows and like that.
    When I walk away from this one I'm not worried.

    I often wish they all were still kickers only, that would put the brakes on a lot of this.

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    Senior Member oasysco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRED455 View Post
    This is not posted to piss off any owners of Harleys,infact I hope this doesnt effect Too many owners. This is a very lame move by Harley to up the runout of the crank so when measured they can say "Your crank is fine" Like I said before I love the Street Bob model,but just the looks,I wouldn't take it any further. The 96 ci has more flaws than Harley will admit. This is just one isolated mechanical denial,the 96ci also has a memo out for the countershaft bearing to be replaced at 15,000 as regular mainteance. Harley Davidson owners need to stick together and instead of paying out of pocket for the companys engineering faults,hold Harley responsible. Until Harley proves to me they can build a motor and tranny that can carry some longetivity,Give me my metrics. Again, I am not out to make this a Metric vs Harley ,I find Harley Davidson NOT THE RIDER,a disgrace .
    http://www.hdforums.com/forum/engine...or-2008-a.html
    I 'm not familiar with this particular problem, but HD had a similar problem with the TC88 engine prior to "late" 2000 production wherein the outer engine bearing would fracture under pressure causing catastrophic engine failure. It didn't happen to every bike or even every model thta had the TC88 engine, but in "late" 2000, they made an engineering change to a more cylindrical shaped bearing, IIRC.

    Point being that these problems crop up now and then, affects a few compared to the number on the road, are designed out at some point or relegated to service bulletins that most decent shops will warn owners that this or that needs to be inspected/replaced at some interval.

    Same for the VTX's stem bearings and flange bearing. Lots of stories of failures, yet relatively few affected to the number on the road.

    Honda had engine oil problems with the Magna VF1100C back in the 90's; seems that oil wasn't reaching the top of the cyls (or some such stuff) resulting in costly engine repairs. As I recall, the fix was fairly simple and the problem was designed out on a revision.

    I'm sure each make and model is subject to these problems and typically, theyr'e not as bad as they seem for most folks, unless, of course, you are the one with the problem!
    Greg in SE Virginia
    2000 Harley UC
    Gone, but not forgotten: VTX1300S, VTX1800C, Aero 750 (couch on wheels)

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    Senior Member oasysco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo1970 View Post
    Ive heard stores like my own and those two above.. this is the main complaint of many HD owners.. problems, and fighting with them to get the problems covered under warranty...

    Granted, not all owners.. but I hear more complaints than compliments..

    -Gonz
    Honda doesn't rush to honor their warranty either in every case. we've heard stories here about that.
    Greg in SE Virginia
    2000 Harley UC
    Gone, but not forgotten: VTX1300S, VTX1800C, Aero 750 (couch on wheels)

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    Senior Member RedWings's Avatar
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    A few interesting replies on the hdforum:

    I got back from Myrtle on Sunday a week ago and on the way to work on Tuesday I noticed the windscreen was vibrating at 50 mph were it had always been glass smooth. The next day it was even worse, the highway pegs would actually vibrate into the down position.
    I took it to a Harley certified independent shop and they showed me the primary side showing .017 runout. MOCO would not authorize them to do the work. I was told I had to take it to a dealer!
    Now I'm pissed... this the nicest bike I've ever owned and the worst also! It's had the whole gamut of '07 problems. Primary chain overtightening, of course the clatter, the fairing brackets breaking, overheating, and now the crank. Sheesh, at 22,000 miles this thing is running me broke! At least I got my vacation in! I don't abuse this bike in any way, I just ride it ...when it's available!
    I'm somewhat in the same boat. .010 runout on the sprocket and no warranty. I found this because I do my own work. How many others are out there in the same condition? Most modern day HD riders can't even change their own oil, let alone detect something wrong with the crank. The big metrics don't have these issues with cranks even pumping out more ponies. WTF is wrong with these boneheads at HD that they can't figure out how to assemble a crank to stay straight? Then again, if we are so stupid as to accept a 4x more than a realistic industry standard for runout, we are not much more intelligent Here I am with a 25k bike with only 12000 kilometers on it, warranty runs out next April, no winter riding in the mean time. Then the lying sack of ***** service manager says limit on sprocket is .040. Looking at about 5-7k more money put into the engine to make it respectable in power and reliability. This is on top of what was spent in the first place to make it run right. At what point is the HD experience no longer worth the bs?
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    Pope "papa" of the VTXOA Chicago-Spike's Avatar
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    That was 2 years ago and has been taken care of.

    About the complaints, go read the 1800 Tech or 1300 board for all the complaints about the VTX. If you only went by the threads on there you would never buy a VTX either. On message forums, that is about all you hear is the complaints and problems owners have. Guys that have no problems at all, rarely post that they are having no probnlems. Doesn't matter what name is on the side of the bike, they all have problem units and they all have many many many more units that have zero problems

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    Default This...is why I want an vtx.I had a lot of friends who spent

    a lot of $ on their Harleys only to be on a trip and be broken down.I just dont understand it.I guess its kinda like my experences with GM.I had 5 different Gm cars/trucks and other than my 56 Olds,all were absolute disasters.Some folks swear by em,I swear at em.Before I ever buy anything costing more than $100,I spend a lot of time researching every detail I can find....except the last 2 GM trucks.I loved the little small block and built a ton of em for others and me.Now,not one bolt will interchange with the new motors.My luck with Hondas has been great including my 83 Nighthawk which blew a rod bearing.Honda replaced it with a total new motor + later I get this letter from the line worker apologizing for his mistake in Japanese...translated into english.Then,as I was across country once the bike was repaired,the dealer called me to pick it up.I explained,Im in Calif. and yer in Kentucky....he caled back saying they had a buyer,would I accept 100% payback including the sales tax ? Hell yes I said and I bought my 84 Nighthawk a few months later.Sad if they no longer take care of things.

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    Senior Member DBoyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasysco View Post
    I 'm not familiar with this particular problem, but HD had a similar problem with the TC88 engine prior to "late" 2000 production wherein the outer engine bearing would fracture under pressure causing catastrophic engine failure. It didn't happen to every bike or even every model thta had the TC88 engine, but in "late" 2000, they made an engineering change to a more cylindrical shaped bearing, IIRC.

    Point being that these problems crop up now and then, affects a few compared to the number on the road, are designed out at some point or relegated to service bulletins that most decent shops will warn owners that this or that needs to be inspected/replaced at some interval.

    Same for the VTX's stem bearings and flange bearing. Lots of stories of failures, yet relatively few affected to the number on the road.

    Honda had engine oil problems with the Magna VF1100C back in the 90's; seems that oil wasn't reaching the top of the cyls (or some such stuff) resulting in costly engine repairs. As I recall, the fix was fairly simple and the problem was designed out on a revision.

    I'm sure each make and model is subject to these problems and typically, theyr'e not as bad as they seem for most folks, unless, of course, you are the one with the problem!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago-Spike View Post
    That was 2 years ago and has been taken care of.

    About the complaints, go read the 1800 Tech or 1300 board for all the complaints about the VTX. If you only went by the threads on there you would never buy a VTX either. On message forums, that is about all you hear is the complaints and problems owners have. Guys that have no problems at all, rarely post that they are having no probnlems. Doesn't matter what name is on the side of the bike, they all have problem units and they all have many many many more units that have zero problems
    Yeah we know that. We just like to keyboard excessively, bat it back n forth,,, strokin' f5,,, waiting for A "IS ANSOIL ANY GOOD" or a "HOW MANY MILES PER GALLON CAN I EXPECT"... like that. every once in a while a real meal shows up and we can sink out teeth in.
    Any brand forum:
    they talk and complain about the exact same thing as VTXOA.
    O BTW nothing but the utmost respect for you and your knowledge here. I might not have said thanks for some of it but I am now. In those rare moments you are attacked I see everyone has your back.

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    Senior Member gEEz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago-Spike View Post
    That was 2 years ago and has been taken care of.

    About the complaints, go read the 1800 Tech or 1300 board for all the complaints about the VTX. If you only went by the threads on there you would never buy a VTX either. On message forums, that is about all you hear is the complaints and problems owners have. Guys that have no problems at all, rarely post that they are having no probnlems. Doesn't matter what name is on the side of the bike, they all have problem units and they all have many many many more units that have zero problems
    Yes, indeed. Most of Harley's issues can be traced back to happening during the Bush Administration.

    I don't see too many engine or tranny tear downs on the VTX. Most of the issues with the VTX typically is stuff most guys can fix or replace themselves. Now go get that Vic before your Harley implodes.

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    Pope "papa" of the VTXOA Chicago-Spike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vTxcnut View Post
    a lot of $ on their Harleys only to be on a trip and be broken down.I just dont understand it.I guess its kinda like my experences with GM.I had 5 different Gm cars/trucks and other than my 56 Olds,all were absolute disasters.Some folks swear by em,I swear at em.Before I ever buy anything costing more than $100,I spend a lot of time researching every detail I can find....except the last 2 GM trucks.I loved the little small block and built a ton of em for others and me.Now,not one bolt will interchange with the new motors.My luck with Hondas has been great including my 83 Nighthawk which blew a rod bearing.Honda replaced it with a total new motor + later I get this letter from the line worker apologizing for his mistake in Japanese...translated into english.Then,as I was across country once the bike was repaired,the dealer called me to pick it up.I explained,Im in Calif. and yer in Kentucky....he caled back saying they had a buyer,would I accept 100% payback including the sales tax ? Hell yes I said and I bought my 84 Nighthawk a few months later.Sad if they no longer take care of things.
    Like I said, most are just fine and there are even a few(just like on this board with their VTXs ) that have put over 100,000 miles on their 96 inch engine and never had 1 problem. I put 19,000 on my Road Glide and now have 17,000 on my Ultra and they are just fine and expect they will be for a long while.

    A standard Ultra Classic, is less than a Goldwing too

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    Senior Member tranz's Avatar
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    ...Triumph...

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    Senior Member oasysco's Avatar
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    >Like I said, most are just fine and there are even a few(just like on this
    >board with their VTXs ) that have put over 100,000 miles on their 96 inch
    >engine and never had 1 problem. I put 19,000 on my Road Glide and now
    >have 17,000 on my Ultra and they are just fine and expect they will be for a
    >long while.
    >
    >A standard Ultra Classic, is less than a Goldwing too

    There are many other things that go unspoken as far as Harleys and maintenance problems go... for ex, from my readings of forum posts it appears that with the TC88, some folks had 95CI kits installed incorrectly, causing engine problems later on. With the 96CI engine, the same is true of some of the 103CI upgrade kit installations. That's one reason some folks are having problems getting HD to honor the warranty - they modified the engine.

    Of course, that doesn't change the perception that Harleys are more error prone than any other major brand since we don't know the other factors in each case. And it may be complicated by the fact that people seem to dick around with the innards on Harleys more because of the vast number of performance upgrades that are available.

    P.S. I read os many horror stories about the TC88->95CI upgrade problems thta I went out of my way not to buy a UC that had been up[graded to 95CI sine I couldn't be sure of the installation.
    Last edited by oasysco; 07-27-2010 at 09:27 PM.
    Greg in SE Virginia
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    Pope "papa" of the VTXOA Chicago-Spike's Avatar
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    Yep, you start messing with the OEM engine of any vehicle and you will eventually run into problems. This is why I won;t touch my engines of my touring bikes, I want the reliability

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    In 22K on my Road Glide, I have had one problem and that was mechanic caused. After my wreck, the guy who fixed my bike didn't put the fuel line clamp on very well inside of my gas tank where it attached to the fuel pump. There probably would have never been an issue if I hadn't had an accident. With that being said, I had 2 issues with my VTX. I had the vacuum line come off the carb one day and got stranded and the starter switch wore out after 13K miles. Going by my personal experience HD has been the more reliable bike. Point being, anything man made will have issues, some soon, some later. The majority of VTX owners have a trouble free bike, and so do the majority of HD owners.

    09 Road Glide

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    Default But,saying that flies in the fsace of good old American

    hot rodding and inovation.I have improved every car/truck or bike Ive ever had,mostly to get power,handling or mileage.The key word ,I think,is perform any and all modifications correctly.Also,a ton of "bad" info exsists: For instance,for years the 57 Chevies and the 57 olds were prone to" cam wiping". Everyone thought it was failure to nitride harden the lobes,it wasnt.GM just wouldnt update the old worn machinery and the lifter boring was out as much as 3 degrees which then made the lifter turn like a lathe on the cam resulting in "wiped lobes". My racing pal,who has built thousands of very sucessful engines,re-bore and installs the bigger Ford lifters...problem solved.There are many stories and at almost every brand. Even big $ manufacturers are effected like Jaguar and BMW.The big 454 Chevy engine has a terrible rod ratio and the first thing builders do,is to change the rods and pistons to correct it,then they make power.Sorry ramblin again !

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    [quote=Chicago-Spike;2904334]Like I said, most are just fine and there are even a few(just like on this board with their VTXs ) that have put over 100,000 miles on their 96 inch engine and never had 1 problem. I put 19,000 on my Road Glide and now have 17,000 on my Ultra and they are just fine and expect they will be for a long while.

    A standard Ultra Classic, is less than a Goldwing too
    Yeah but a Goldwing is a nicer bike I have friends with lots of miles on thier HD's with no issues..
    Steve in Ct
    Last edited by blackflamevtx; 07-28-2010 at 04:36 AM.

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    Anit that the obama stimulus plan, get a harley and at 15 grand have to rebuild the engine ! hahahahaha
    Love how the harley guys came to defend there investments !
    07 1800 T - Vince & Hinse, PC III, Thunder Hurricane Intake, Ultimate Lowrider, & a lot of chrome, Metz front & rear ( 200 ). Starting mileage .2 now 25,250 & Loving ever minute of it !

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    Try posting some VTX tech talk on a Harley board,and see what the responses are..


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    I'll stick with my VTX 1800, it's twice the bike for half the price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackflamevtx View Post
    Yeah but a Goldwing is a nicer bike I have friends with lots of miles on thier HD's with no issues..
    Steve in Ct
    It's only nicer if you like flat6 engines in a motorcycle. I, for one, will take a vtwin over a flat6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
    Try posting some VTX tech talk on a Harley board,and see what the responses are..
    Only BIGRED44 knows why he posted that here. Being the nice folk we are, we didn't chastise him but instead attempted to delve a little further into what he quoted to make us all a little more knowledgable.
    Greg in SE Virginia
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