M109RT vs. VTX1800F

[salesphil1]

I was riding with a guy who has a M109RT and I couldn't keep
up with him with my "F". Both are stock but his is a 100lbs heavier.
Does anyone know why the the M109 engine is more powerful?
I gave it my best without hitting the limiter, he told me he wasn't
hitting it hard. I always thought the M109 was faster because of
all of the plastic Suzuki uses but the RT has plenty of steel
similar to the X. I'm looking forward to hearing from some of
the tech guys on this one.

[halfpricevtx1800]

I have had the same results with my buddy's M109r2. I had him thru the first 3 gears then he pulled away from me. I think it was because I bounced it off of the rev limiter in 1 and 2. (i dont have a tach)

[UNCVTX18]

I used to own an M109R and that thing is just fast, but breaks all the time. Was dubbed the Busa cruiser, and earned it. But, I am now a VTX 1800 owner. The problem with the 109 is it is all bull, and no finesse.

I have had the same results with my buddy's M109r2. I had him thru the first 3 gears then he pulled away from me. I think it was because I bounced it off of the rev limiter in 1 and 2. (i dont have a tach)

[Chicago-Spike]

The numbers are out there, just need to type it in Google.

m109 has @ 110 hp at the wheel
VTX1800 has @87hp at the wheel

[BadAxe]

Do a search here on the M109's, there have been plenty of threads about them. Although some X riders claim to be able to keep up, if you take away rider skill, the M109 wins hands down, everytime.

[NDAna]

Suzi engine is 'under square' allowing it to rev faster. It is also the same weight or very slightly lighter depending on whose specs you find on the internet.

[VTXCRZR]

The numbers are out there, just need to type it in Google.

m109 has @ 110 hp at the wheel
VTX1800 has @87hp at the wheel

I've test driven a few M109s and compared to my VTX they are faster. With my set up and a custom dyno tune my VTX is pumping out about 100 HP/115 ft-lbs torque at the rear wheel and it felt underpowered when I got off the M109 and back on to the VTX.

Anybody who claims to have beaten a M109 on a VTX probably just beat the driver, not the bike.

[salesphil1]

I used to own an M109R and that thing is just fast, but breaks all the time. Was dubbed the Busa cruiser, and earned it. But, I am now a VTX 1800 owner. The problem with the 109 is it is all bull, and no finesse.

I'm glad to hear the grass is'nt always greener. Reliability is very
important to me.
Thanks,
Phil

[Chicago-Spike]

I'm glad to hear the grass is'nt always greener. Reliability is very
important to me.
Thanks,
Phil

Don't let that sway you. The VTX is a machine just like the 109. Both have problems, just like every vehicle out there has some.

[GWTrike]

I'm glad to hear the grass is'nt always greener. Reliability is very
important to me.
Thanks,
Phil

I heard here before that Suzuki, harley and other brands are crap compared to Honda. so it's just not reliability, but you have to take the crap-factor into consideration, too

[Icculus]

add a blue bottle for a grand........that will spank him everytime

[Smokin_Indy]

I read the MR109rs are 65 pounds lighter than a VTX with more power and the seat hieght is about the same.

From google:

M109R
Seat height: 27.6 in.
Claimed dry weight: 695 lb.

VTX1800N
Seat height: 27.3 in.
Claimed dry weight: 760 lb.

I am curious how they feel riding compared (though not necessarily power) but comfort and riding position type stuff.

Their looks have grown on me and I have seen a few 2008s locally with 3-4K miles for asking $8-9K. I love my 1800N but would like to see one closer and ride to see how they feel.

[Trackman]

I read the MR109rs are 65 pounds lighter than a VTX with more power and the seat hieght is about the same.

From google:

M109R
Seat height: 27.6 in.
Claimed dry weight: 695 lb.

VTX1800N
Seat height: 27.3 in.
Claimed dry weight: 760 lb.

I am curious how they feel riding compared (though not necessarily power) but comfort and riding position type stuff.

Their looks have grown on me and I have seen a few 2008s locally with 3-4K miles for asking $8-9K. I love my 1800N but would like to see one closer and ride to see how they feel.

They also have a Compression Ratio 10.5:1 vs our 9.0:1.
Would require more than 87 octane.

Looks like a nice bike.


Here's a different version.

[salesphil1]

I've always thought the M109R looked good; I just didn't like all of
the plastic. I'm starting to realize that the future of many bike
manufacturers means more plastic with good old Honda leading
the way. I have never ridden a M109R but I've sat on a few and
the seat wasn't very comfortable, the bars were too forward and
the controls were too forward. I'm 5' 10" basically an average
height and I know I wouldn't last very long on a stock M109R.
On the other hand my 2008 F3 with my Ultimate seat is perfect
for my size. So for me the Suzuki looks cool, the performance
is great but the ride doesn't do it for me.

I read the MR109rs are 65 pounds lighter than a VTX with more power and the seat hieght is about the same.

From google:

M109R
Seat height: 27.6 in.
Claimed dry weight: 695 lb.

VTX1800N
Seat height: 27.3 in.
Claimed dry weight: 760 lb.

I am curious how they feel riding compared (though not necessarily power) but comfort and riding position type stuff.

Their looks have grown on me and I have seen a few 2008s locally with 3-4K miles for asking $8-9K. I love my 1800N but would like to see one closer and ride to see how they feel.

[rmcruiser]

There's always a lighter faster bike out there. Cruisers aren't particularly fast compared to other bikes anyway. Speed is relative. I had a ZX-12, and the VTX is downright leisurely in comparison. The VTX is my preferred bike anyway.

I've had three Suzukis, and although they aren't horrible, I'll take Honda build quality any day.

[Dshrek1949]

I owned a M109 R it is fast, with a mustang seat it is reasonably comfortable. Long reach to the barsa and I am just shy of 6'1". The problems were electrical in six months it was in the shop 4 times, left me sytranded 4 times and was still blowing fuses. They dealer replaced about everything electrical on the bike, and helped me sell it. Reliability is every thing. I am back on the VTX 1800, and the wife will ride with me again.
But only on the VTX!

The Suzuki dealer was supportive , I wish he sold Honda's!

[Hondabilly]

This article is a couple of years old. Nevertheless, it highlights some of the major differences between the Suzuki M109 and Honda VTX1800F. In short, the 109 is designed for pure performance, whereas the VTX is designed for performance, among other things.
Enjoy!

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/4216203

[speedsville]

Well we hauled a 109 into the dealer because it wouldn't go due to a broken drive component, which the dealer knew about right away because so many have broken.

[teraeric]

buy a different bike... or spend a bunch of bux perking yours up... i bought a cruiser finally since i don't need to go so fast anymore... my 20 year old gs1100g stomps the 1800... so does any modern 4cyl 600...

[X-Beast Driver]

The 109's are faster but they have tranny problems. The X goes as fast as I want to go and I don't have tranny problems!

[GR8PHUN]

The VTX is basically eight year old tech.

[teraeric]

The VTX is basically eight year old tech.

my 2006 was only 4 year old tech! it's all relative... don't want a bike with variable valve timing, but updated efi might be interesting... not really too much other new tech for a v-twin, is there?

[mrjones]

I've ridden with and on a buddies M109. To me, they fell pretty similar at lower RPMs, but around 5K, the VTX starts running out of steam and the M keeps on pulling hard up to 7.5K The VTX handles better because the M has that big 240 rear tire that makes it reluctant to lean into a turn.

The Ms have a reputation for clutch problems. My buddy's bike is getting out of the shop today for that problem. The clutch basket nut backed off enough so that the clutch wouldn't disengage.

Great looking and great running bikes.

[X-Beast Driver]

I've ridden with and on a buddies M109. To me, they fell pretty similar at lower RPMs, but around 5K, the VTX starts running out of steam and the M keeps on pulling hard up to 7.5K The VTX handles better because the M has that big 240 rear tire that makes it reluctant to lean into a turn.

The Ms have a reputation for clutch problems. My buddy's bike is getting out of the shop today for that problem. The clutch basket nut backed off enough so that the clutch wouldn't disengage.

Great looking and great running bikes.

Those 240 wide tires have to be ex$pen$ive too!

[Smokin_Indy]

Thanks for the replies.

I really like my VTX but found a local M109r on CL (4 years newer than my bike) that I could probably get for 1500-2000 difference in selling mine and buying his. I read at their forum that transmissions on some do go out and it is $3500 to fix (ouch). Think if i get serious would have to see if I could take it the dealer to inspect before buying.

Any way here is pic of one similar to what I found locally. I think I go see it to find out what i think of it in person.

[jghost369]

My buddy has one and we have run together a couple of times and he has left me behind too.

His has been in the shop 3 times in the last 2 years. I have put twice as many miles on mine in half the time as he has and "knocking on wood" mine hasn't been to the shop yet. Also he hsa spent over $4k

[GreenF350]

I also ride with a buddy that has an M109R. We have done the "musical bikes" and I find that they "feel" the same acceleration wise overall, but I know the Zuk's are supposed to be faster. Characteristics of the motor are certainly different because below 4k or so the X feels way stronger/snappier to me, but obviously the X doesn't rev to 7k so no doubt the cams are a player there. Riding position is NOT comfortable on the 109 to me at 5'9" like it is on the X. I have beaten a few at the Dragstrip on the X. (Guess no one else can ride?) but they usually have a slighty higher MPH than I do. I'm guessing they just need to learn to launch them a bit better. Overall I would say performance wise they are comparable, if a bit faster, but at least to me the X is more comfortable, better looking and (based off of reputation) more reliable. Now, my other buddies Raider has my attention as it looks great and performs almost identical to my X. Guess we all have our tastes.
-Aaron

[eznkc]

Don't let that sway you. The VTX is a machine just like the 109. Both have problems, just like every vehicle out there has some.

well i have ridden a friends 109 quite a few miles while trying to help him sell it and have to say its a nice bike and faster than my 03s by a good bit but dollar for dollar ill take a x anyday no bikes perfect and they all eventualy need work/ maintance and parts are reasonable for the x even an engine can be replaced for around a grand if you shop right bet you cant do that with a 109.there have been soo many xs built and soo many wrecked it will be years before the 109 has the used parts avalibility we all have with the x ,besides they dont have the knowledge we have here at the vtxoa.

[Smokin_Indy]

Went and rode the 2008 M109r LE today. it had 3400 miles and was very clean. Below are my impressions compared to the my VTX1800N -

First thing, it comes up of the stand much easier than the VTX due to lower center of gravity. Off the line, it seems to rev faster and respond to small amounts of throttle faster, probably due to shorter stroke. Power was great bu then again so is my VTX's. Don't really care which one is faster.

Riding position is different, my legs have to come up off the ground and quickly reach pretty far forward, I like the more natural just up and on the floor boards of the VTX. I have to reach about the same for the bars as the VTX but after 5 mins could feel it in my wrists, on the 109 the bars are more straight and lower so you wrists bend more. I like the pull back and angle of the VTX better (maybe just used to it more).

The tranny does clunk loudly going into second, which is what you read about at their forum. Makes me worry it could develop into something worse and the guys at their forum (while they say it is fairly rare) report that to repair second gear tranny probs is about $3500.

Handling was pretty good but you do have to push/pull or counter steer to get it to lean and turn, due to bar geometry and the 240 rear tire.

The motor sounds great, he had hole sawed through 2 baffles and drilled 6 holes in the end cap of each muffler. I have VH big shots on the VTX which sound very good but if someone had a M109 it is plus that you can easily drill out the exhaust and get such good results.

Fit and finish seemed good, Yellow and white paint is beautiful and the built in Tach was nice to have.

Will have to think on this but from first impression, I liked it but not enough to want to sell the VTX and get one right away.

Just thought I would share for those that are curious.

[daryls]

I love my 1800C. The power I get even with 2 up riding is fantastic.

I like the M109 for 3 reasons.

1. It feels lighter when you bring off stand.
2. being 6'5" the forward like controls are more comfortable.
3. the M109(1800) is still in production. It sucks that Honda has not brought 1800 back to life.

Honda I assume feels the Goldwing is now the powerhouse of the Honda fleet. I'm to tall for a GW though. I really love my 1800C. I think Honda should build the 1800 again however make a full dresser version like the Harley Ultra's. Faring and saddle bags.