Was John Wayne a Draft Dodger
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  1. #1
    Old Goat TennX's Avatar
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    Default Was John Wayne a Draft Dodger

    Prompted by the other thread.....I liked the man and took him for what he was an Actor and someone who loved his country.......bash away..
    I will add that Im not defending his reasons...but in 68 I tried to join and was deferred for health reasons then in 69 called for the draft stilled deferred....just sayin....

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...a-draft-dodger
    Last edited by TennX; 02-12-2012 at 02:13 PM.

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    Senior Member speedsville's Avatar
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    I know John Ford and Woody Strode gave him **** over it when shooting movies together since they both went in.
    "We've upped our standards, so up yours!" - Pat Paulsen
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    I believe he provided the best service to the nation doing exactly what he did, make movies and perform on USO tours.

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    I guess since he couldn't (or didn't) be a real one...he felt the need to play one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by OaheX View Post
    I believe he provided the best service to the nation doing exactly what he did, make movies and perform on USO tours.
    ...that is singular on USO tour...

    Bull

  7. #6
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    Perhaps he felt the need to make a living for his children...perhaps it was a selfish decision, based on his career interests...but it is all speculation beyond the fact that he didn't serve, since he didn't like to talk about it, and now that he is dead we can't ask. He did serve America, both at the time by making movies that entertained and inspired other Americans...and he became a great spokesman for America as a patriot.

    He didn't refuse to serve, as did some...and he obviously later wished he had served. Many of us have made changes in life, and the persons we are now are not what we once were. Nonetheless, I like the man as a actor, as a person, and as an American. He wasn't perfect, and neither is anyone else...but I'd much rather choose his company than someone like Sean Penn, Jane Fonda, or Michael Moore.

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    Senior Member LasPulgas's Avatar
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    The Marine Corps didn't think so when they made him an honorary Colonel, as in you had to salute him. Talking s**t about the duke was a good way to get your ass kicked when I was in the Corps. Just sayin....

    Oh and to answer the OP's question, no I don't think he was a draft dodger.

    "Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…"

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    Senior Member KD3NE's Avatar
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    No, he was not a draft dodger ..... but an ass may attempt to portray him in that light in order to further an agenda.

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    besides being a muslim muhammad ali was a draft dodger also that is the reason I cannot stand to see him being called a hero.He was a jerk

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    Senior Member KD3NE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guilfoil View Post
    besides being a muslim muhammad ali was a draft dodger also that is the reason I cannot stand to see him being called a hero.He was a jerk

    I'm sure Jane Fonda considers Ali to be a hero, as would Ho Chi Minh!

    Yes this was posted sarcastically.

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    Senior Member budley3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guilfoil View Post
    besides being a muslim muhammad ali was a draft dodger also that is the reason I cannot stand to see him being called a hero.He was a jerk
    BS

    He stood up for what he believed in was exonerated by the courts and honored by GWB same as Rosa Parks with the highest honor a civilian can get.
    Last edited by budley3; 02-12-2012 at 03:50 PM.
    Start them early



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  13. #12
    GKC
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    Quote Originally Posted by budley3 View Post
    BS

    He stood up for what he believed in was exonerated by the courts and honored by GWB.
    He was NOT exonerated by the Supreme Court...his conviction was overturned because the government made a clerical error...the court did NOT address the validity or lack thereof of his conviction, or the merits of the case. The government elected not to refile charges against him because public sentiment had changed, and the general feeling was against the war.

    I know you admire the draft dodger, but you could at least get your facts correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guilfoil View Post
    besides being a muslim muhammad ali was a draft dodger also that is the reason I cannot stand to see him being called a hero.He was a jerk
    I'm not defending his actions but Ali did not dodge the draft. He refused to step forward and be inducted. A draft dodger runs away.

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    Senior Member budley3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKC View Post
    He was NOT exonerated by the Supreme Court...his conviction was overturned because the government made a clerical error...the court did NOT address the validity or lack thereof of his conviction, or the merits of the case. The government elected not to refile charges against him because public sentiment had changed, and the general feeling was against the war.

    I know you admire the draft dodger, but you could at least get your facts correct.
    Exoneration occurs when a person who has been convicted of a crime is later proved to have been innocent of that crime.

    I suppose you think the medal he was awarded by this country was a political move by GWB.

    The war was idiocy and he was right about it.That's the reason for the medal.

    Why do you think he was given the same medal as Rosa?
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    Senior Member budley3's Avatar
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    I think John Wayne did more for the country doing what he did best than joining the military.
    Same as Ali if he was given the chance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by budley3 View Post
    Exoneration occurs when a person who has been convicted of a crime is later proved to have been innocent of that crime.
    Exactly...and Clay was NOT found to be innocent. Can you read? The court DID NOT address the merits of the charges per se...or his innocence or guilt...the supreme court overturned his conviction because of an error by the government, essentially a clerical error. The government elected not to refile...an option and decision they would not have had the ability to make, had he been found innocent. As it stands today, he has not been found innocent.

    Quote Originally Posted by budley3
    I suppose you think the medal he was awarded by this country was a political move by GWB.
    Yes, it was...and one of the few things that Bush did that I was ashamed that he did.

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    Senior Member budley3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKC View Post
    Exactly...and Clay was NOT found to be innocent. Can you read? The court DID NOT address the merits of the charges per se...or his innocence or guilt...the supreme court overturned his conviction because of an error by the government, essentially a clerical error. The government elected not to refile...an option and decision they would not have had the ability to make, had he been found innocent. As it stands today, he has not been found innocent.



    Yes, it was...and one of the few things that Bush did that I was ashamed that he did.
    You are either guilty or innocent.

    The court was right

    GWB was right

    Ali was right

    I am right.

    You are wrong.
    Start them early



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    Senior Member LasPulgas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budley3 View Post
    I suppose you think the medal he was awarded by this country was a political move by GWB.

    Bush giving Clay the medal was an obvious political move, a lame and transparent attempt to appease American muslims IMHO. And Clay made a political statement of his own when he apparently called Bush crazy during the medal ceremony:

    From the Washington Post:

    Bush, who appeared almost playful, fastened the heavy medal around Muhammad Ali's neck and whispered something in the heavyweight champion's ear. Then, as if to say "bring it on," the president put up his dukes in a mock challenge.


    Ali, 63, who has Parkinson's disease and moves slowly, looked the president in the eye—and, finger to head, did the "crazy" twirl for a couple of seconds. The room of about 200, including Cabinet secretaries, tittered with laughter. Ali, who was then escorted back to his chair, made the twirl again while sitting down.


    And the president looked visibly taken aback, laughing nervously. Was Ali making a political statement?
    art_3153_2.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by budley3 View Post
    Why do you think he was given the same medal as Rosa?
    The same reason Carol Burnett got the same award on the same night - politics.

    "Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…"

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    Senior Member budley3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasPulgas View Post
    Bush giving Clay the medal was an obvious political move, a lame and transparent attempt to appease American muslims IMHO. And Clay made a political statement of his own when he apparently called Bush crazy during the medal ceremony:

    From the Washington Post:


    art_3153_2.jpg



    The same reason Carol Burnett got the same award on the same night - politics.
    Clay always said that anyone who wanted to fight him was crazy because he was the greatest.

    So your saying none of them deserved the award?
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    Senior Member LasPulgas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budley3 View Post

    So your saying none of them deserved the award?
    No I said it was politics. WTF, you even quoted me and you still got it wrong.

    But I'll clarify it a bit just for you.

    Clay and Rosa deserved their awards every bit as much as Carol Burnett.

    "Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…"

  22. #21
    GKC
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    Quote Originally Posted by budley3 View Post
    You are wrong.
    I admit I am wrong about one thing...up to now, I thought you were a moron. However, I realize now that I have been wrong in that assessment...you are so far below the level of a moron, that you can't even see moron from where you are. Your IQ level is about 0.0001, if that. You act as if stupidity was a virtue...and if so, you are the patron saint of dumb. In any battle of wits, you are definitely unarmed. Debating any intelligent topic with you should be made a felony offense, since it is such a crime to take advantage of the mentally handicapped. If you had two brain cells, you might be able to rub them together and someday create a spark of a thought...but, since you only have one brain cell, and since it doesn't work, you are destined to remain clueless and thoughtless. At that you most decidedly excel.

    About the only thing any rational man can do is laugh at you...so:

    Laugh.jpg

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    Senior Member budley3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKC View Post
    I admit I am wrong about one thing...up to now, I thought you were a moron. However, I realize now that I have been wrong in that assessment...you are so far below the level of a moron, that you can't even see moron from where you are. Your IQ level is about 0.0001, if that. You act as if stupidity was a virtue...and if so, you are the patron saint of dumb. In any battle of wits, you are definitely unarmed. Debating any intelligent topic with you should be made a felony offense, since it is such a crime to take advantage of the mentally handicapped. If you had two brain cells, you might be able to rub them together and someday create a spark of a thought...but, since you only have one brain cell, and since it doesn't work, you are destined to remain clueless and thoughtless. At that you most decidedly excel.

    About the only thing any rational man can do is laugh at you...so:


    Laugh.jpg
    Funny and sad how the non believer is the one with compassion and forgiveness while people like you and duug just talk the talk.

    Start them early



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  24. #23
    GKC
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    Quote Originally Posted by budley3 View Post
    Funny and sad how the non believer is the one with compassion and forgiveness while people like you and duug just talk the talk.
    On a serious note (and yes, my earlier post was largely kidding you...I don't really think you are a moron; just misguided) individual compassion and forgiveness is for a wrong done to one personally. In any case, Clay has not expressed any regret or remorse for refusing to serve his country.

    Some people have short memories, and/or do things out of political expediency...his "honor" was not deserved, IMO. If Clay had expressed regret for his refusal to serve his country, and asked to be forgiven, I could accept that; we all do things we regret, and later see that were wrong. He has not yet done so, as far as I know.

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    Senior Member budley3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKC View Post
    On a serious note (and yes, my earlier post was largely kidding you...I don't really think you are a moron; just misguided) individual compassion and forgiveness is for a wrong done to one personally. In any case, Clay has not expressed any regret or remorse for refusing to serve his country.

    Some people have short memories, and/or do things out of political expediency...his "honor" was not deserved, IMO. If Clay had expressed regret for his refusal to serve his country, and asked to be forgiven, I could accept that; we all do things we regret, and later see that were wrong. He has not yet done so, as far as I know.
    But he doesn't have any regret.
    Jane Fonda apologizes for her stupid actions but Ali felt he was right then and now.
    All I know is it took tremendous courage to do what he did so he must have really believed in it.
    If your right and there is a God maybe Parkinson's is his punishment.
    In any case he was the greatest fighter ever and I remember watching him fight with a group of Marines all cheering him on.
    Start them early



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  26. #25
    GKC
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    Quote Originally Posted by budley3 View Post
    But he doesn't have any regret.
    Jane Fonda apologizes for her stupid actions but Ali felt he was right then and now.
    All I know is it took tremendous courage to do what he did so he must have really believed in it.
    If your right and there is a God maybe Parkinson's is his punishment.
    In any case he was the greatest fighter ever and I remember watching him fight with a group of Marines all cheering him on.
    I don't deny his talent as a boxer. I don't think God is punishing him with Parkinson's...but that is not mine to know.

    It doesn't take courage to serve yourself...when others gave all for their country. They had courage, and they were heroes.

    If Clay thought he was right, and that he was so mistreated by America that he had no interest in serving America, then why did he stay here and grow rich, taking advantage of all that America provides? Why didn't he move to Africa or somewhere else where he felt he might be better treated? (Rhetorical question, no need for you to answer.)

    You and I don't now and probably never will agree on Clay.

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    Default Yes Sir Marion Morrison..

    All he ever did was first change his name to john wayne then made a ton of money portraying people that did live and or die for their country... May god Bless America and the folks that defend her..

    Just my opinion but never thought he was much of an actor,always put him on a small horse so as to make him look larger then life ECT...

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    Senior Member budley3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKC View Post
    I don't deny his talent as a boxer. I don't think God is punishing him with Parkinson's...but that is not mine to know.

    It doesn't take courage to serve yourself...when others gave all for their country. They had courage, and they were heroes.

    If Clay thought he was right, and that he was so mistreated by America that he had no interest in serving America, then why did he stay here and grow rich, taking advantage of all that America provides? Why didn't he move to Africa or somewhere else where he felt he might be better treated? (Rhetorical question, no need for you to answer.)

    You and I don't now and probably never will agree on Clay.
    Are you saying if you don't agree with what your country is doing you should leave?
    Should Rosa Parks and Martin Luther left?
    Should duug leave?
    Start them early



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    Quote Originally Posted by GKC View Post
    I admit I am wrong about one thing...up to now, I thought you were a moron. However, I realize now that I have been wrong in that assessment...you are so far below the level of a moron, that you can't even see moron from where you are. Your IQ level is about 0.0001, if that. You act as if stupidity was a virtue...and if so, you are the patron saint of dumb. In any battle of wits, you are definitely unarmed. Debating any intelligent topic with you should be made a felony offense, since it is such a crime to take advantage of the mentally handicapped. If you had two brain cells, you might be able to rub them together and someday create a spark of a thought...but, since you only have one brain cell, and since it doesn't work, you are destined to remain clueless and thoughtless. At that you most decidedly excel.

    About the only thing any rational man can do is laugh at you...so:
    Quote Originally Posted by GKC View Post
    On a serious note (and yes, my earlier post was largely kidding you...I don't really think you are a moron; just misguided) individual compassion and forgiveness is for a wrong done to one personally.
    Interesting apology...from someone that professes to be so Christian. Personally, I think Budley should be allowed his opinion...no more and no less than yours. Your very sharp 'kidding attack' lessens your credibility and viewpoint in my eyes. How does that 'shallow' go again?

    Bull

  30. #29
    Senior Member stagecombat's Avatar
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    Back to the OP:

    It's highly unlikely he avoided the draft. There would be record of that.

    And as a man with kids to support and a failing marriage, we certainly can't fault him for choosing NOT to volunteer as many other even older actors did. He did serve his country (in a way) by making inspirational movies and doing USO tours. And spent the weekends sitting by the pool with a large drink....

    I certainly find no fault in those choices.

    BUT.......

    As a strident warhawk, he certainly didn't put his money where his mouth was. And THERE lies all the ammunition needed to accuse him of some degree of hypocrisy.

    Check out all the OTHER actors who served in WWII - many MUCH bigger stars than Wayne was in the early 40's. http://www.heroeswest.com/page6.htm

    And lets not forget athletes like Ted Williams, Hank Greenberg, Bob Feller, Jackie Robinson, etc, etc, etc. who gave up cushy careers to serve their country.
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  31. #30
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    "America's entry into World War II resulted in a deluge of support for the war effort from all sectors of society, and Hollywood was no exception. Wayne was exempted from service due to his age (34 at the time of Pearl Harbor) and family status, classified as 3-A (family deferment).

    So much for the answer to the OP question.

    As for timmy,.....not much needs to be said.
    Duug


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