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  1. #31
    Senior Member BADography's Avatar
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    Whatever.

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  3. #32
    Senior Member House O' Pain's Avatar
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    Default Saw it

    To the OP, I saw it and thought it was informative and although done in a hokey way, it still delivers enough fact that it should at least get some Christians digging a little more into what they are actually saying they believe in.

    I honestly believe though that believers will believe no matter what kind of facts you put before them. Look at the Mormon faith. The mentality that will put all reason aside to replace it with blind faith are many (it seems) and I honestly believe the motivations for belief (what they get from it) are often too strong to allow them to abandon them. Studies of cults show this behavior over and over, where a group of people will cling to a believe no matter what because the loss of what the belief would bring is too great a threat.



    Who wants to loose an all seeing God who loves you and cares for every hair on your head, and who's prepared a place for you in heaven? Replace him with an endless void and the prospect of dying like a plant or a snail or a grub with no soul and simple nonexistence after death? Scary, scary stuff.

    This link goes more into what the film touched on:

    http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/chri...y_nojesus.html
    "A man's got to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry
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  4. #33
    Senior Member BADography's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=House O' Pain;3480270]To the OP, I saw it and thought it was informative and although done in a hokey way, it still delivers enough fact that it should at least get some Christians digging a little more into what they are actually saying they believe in.

    Hokey...

    Unless one finds the stories in the bible endearing or scary it can be hokey too. The virgin birth and wiseman and all.

    Even with the old movie clips and all I thought he did a good job of getting his point across. As did Carl Sagan. I watched a lot of Sagan's vids yesterday. He brought up the question, if God created the universe, where did God come from? He talked about the Big Bang theory. If matter exploded to create the universe, where did the matter come from.

    We should all just make the best of our life while we can.


  5. #34
    Senior Member Fisherman's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=BADography;3479196]
    Quote Originally Posted by GKC View Post
    I think most would agree that Jesus was waiting until the time that God had ordained to take up His ministry, as/when He became a grown man. In the Jewish tradition, especially concerning the priesthood, a 30 year old would be considered a "youngster."


    I thought Jewish boys became men around 12 through barmitsvah(SP)?
    Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover.
    And when he was twelve years old, they went up according to custom;
    and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents did not know it,
    but supposing him to be in the company they went a day's journey, and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintances.
    and when they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking him.
    After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions;
    and all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers. Luke 2:41-47
    Stand on truth and do whats right.

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  6. #35
    Senior Member BADography's Avatar
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    If memory serves, that was covered in the docu.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Duug's Avatar
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    Duug


  8. #37
    Senior Member Padre Blanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbringer View Post
    I had a digital copy of this movie which I hadn't watched yet, so I cranked up the computer and gave it a view.
    Storm, which part of 'Thou shalt not steal' didn't you understand?

    I haven't seen this yet, I'll have to look for it on Netflix streaming and add to my list to watch.
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  9. #38
    Senior Member Big Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BADography View Post
    I am not a student of the bible. However, I heard last summer that the bible doesn't mention Jesus from about the age 12 thru age 30 when he started teaching. The docu mentions that gap too. From 12 AD to 30 AD there is no mention of Jesus in the bible. How come?????

    Then around 70 AD Paul the Apositle appears and starts with the Christian dialogue but he had never met Jesus, or so it goes.

    I had a few questions like this one about the docu and the bible No bashing just a POV from people who might know. The few Sunday school classes I attended never mentioned this topic.

    When I was about 12 the question about evolution came up as to our belief. One kid said he believed in god but that he controlled evolution. I thought it was a cop out.
    Ken probably gave the best answer.....
    but gnostic gospel has that stuff......
    Weird stuff.... Christian, Jews, and historians all view it as fictional stuff with UN authentic authors..The dating is centuries off one was written in something like 1840s....
    they made a movie with Tom Hanks with Gnostic references...
    Think about it from a Satan perspective.... through a little truth in... through in a little of what you have heard before..... make it seem historically truthful.... then confuse the snot out of folks.... and lead em down your own road...... Politicians do it all the time!!!....
    Gray-haired bikers don't get that way from pure luck, if you got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.


  10. #39
    Senior Member RoadDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BADography View Post
    Not day by day but 18 years is long time for no written record of the life of the son of god! Dont ya think?

    Anyway, I keep my mind open enough to not discount anything.
    In the world of today where we have all manner of Simpsons and Kardasians and Beibers to draw attention to themselves as if THEY were all that important. I guess it would be difficult to conceptualize a break in the reporting of eighteen years of a mans life. However, absent any of the modern media hype... events during the time of Jesus were reported a bit differently. The better question is. WHY do we know so little of any of all of the other important men in the history of the world as we know it.

    I can understand that the Son of God did not wish to "blow his own trumpet" and herald his own entry onto the world stage. HE never really did ANYTHING to bring attention to himself as a person. His ONLY presentation throughout his entire life here... was that he was here to do the will of his Father. He came here with a job to do and he did it quite well. I do not recall any account of him in which he brought unnecessary attention to himself.

    For a man that lived and died as he did while NEVER doing anything wrong to ANY person... there sure are MILLIONS of people that hate even the mention of his name as a good man. However, HIS is the first name that they will use as an epithet when they wish to accent their emotions of anger, fear, dismay, surprise or amazement. The mere fact that so many people, who do not believe in him as the Son of God, will spend TONS of time and money trying to prove that he is not... and FAIL so miserably at doing it... only serves to add credence to his claim of being as he said... The Son of God. The fact that others will spend so much of their hard earned money and time watching these poorly written and woefully lacking in content and structure documentaries (as wisely pointed out by Stormbringer) is testament to their fear that he IS the Son of God and they just want to be right in their belief that he is NOT. So to them... ANY rope to hold onto in that storm is a welcomed one.

    For me? I do not have to wonder who he was... for you see... in my heart, I KNOW who he IS.

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  11. #40
    Senior Member RoadDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre Blanco View Post
    Storm, which part of 'Thou shalt not steal' didn't you understand?

    I haven't seen this yet, I'll have to look for it on Netflix streaming and add to my list to watch.
    A rather large ASSumption on your part there Father White... He said he had a copy... He did NOT state that he did not acquire it through a legitimate avenue.

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  12. #41
    Senior Member Padre Blanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
    A rather large ASSumption on your part there Father White... He said he had a copy... He did NOT state that he did not acquire it through a legitimate avenue.


    Yeah I know it was a jump, that's why the joke icon was thrown in for good measure.
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  13. #42
    Senior Member Stormbringer's Avatar
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    For the record, the website for the film offered the video in limited resolution in FLV format, sans the extended material of the DVD.

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    “The notion that faith in Christ is to be rewarded by an eternity of bliss, while a dependence upon reason, observation, and experience merits everlasting pain, is too absurd for refutation, and can be believed only by that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance, called faith.” ― Robert G. Ingersoll

  14. #43
    Senior Member Padre Blanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbringer View Post
    For the record, the website for the film offered the video in limited resolution in FLV format, sans the extended material of the DVD.
    Then I will redact my accusation. I still haven't scanned Netflix to see if it's available there or not. It does sound like an interesting watch but I'll have to view it first before making a post in that regard.
    Padre Blanco
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre Blanco View Post
    Then I will redact my accusation. I still haven't scanned Netflix to see if it's available there or not. It does sound like an interesting watch but I'll have to view it first before making a post in that regard.
    It's there, available for streaming....
    "We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." H. L. Mencken


  16. #45
    Senior Member House O' Pain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
    For me? I do not have to wonder who he was... for you see... in my heart, I KNOW who he IS.
    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post




    As a former believer who used to make the exact same claim, (That I KNOW) I have to say this argument is extremely weak in convincing any non-believer of the reality of Jesus. The Taliban KNOW their truth passionately enough to die for it, as well as the pack of folks who drank the poison kool-aid (the list goes on and on).

    If you swear you "KNOW" leprechauns exist and you have a personal relationship with the King of leprechauns, does that make it real to anyone but you?

    When it comes to religion, Christians need to go the extra mile to answer such questions that stumble non-believers from believing as the questions regarding the validity of Jesus posed in the film. It isn't good enough any more to just quote bible text or say "I know its true".

    To a non-believer its absurd to quote from a book that only you believe in as your 'proof' in its validity. The book and what it says should stand on its own, otherwise it's yet one more religion among a smorgasbord of them requiring the believer to put aside logic, reasoning and historical fact in order to believe in it.

    My point is if you don't have answers for things like why 30 years passed before anyone ever wrote about Jesus and then when they did he grew more and more fantastic with time, well you can't blame rational people for saying it sure sounds made up, just like all the other deities in our history who also rose from the grave or whatever.

    Examples from history before Jesus time:


    The originality of Jesus?
    Who was the Son of the highest God, and the biggest healer in Antiquity? He healed the sick and even raised the dead. Hear and behold: former paralysed walked again, the blind could miraculously see again, and the deaf could listen and the mute speak after the Master's gentle touch! But he did not only heal the body, he also healed the soul. They called him Saviour and Redeemer, and he healed both rich and poor, men and women, young and old, slaves and free men, friends and enemies. In one occasion a paralysed man was brough to him in his bed, and took his bed and left walking after the Saviour had touched him. What was this Saviour's name?
    Asklepios.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Who was born by a mortal virgin mother and had a divine Father, and was known as the "Saviour of the world"? Before he was born his parents wandered to a bigger town, and prophets had foretold his birth and that he would be a king. This instigated a search for the infant Saviour by a leading figure who wanted to kill him. After growing up the Son of God was shown all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain. He also walked on water and when he met his end his mother and his favorite disciple stood by him. He then tells his mother: "Do not cry, I'm going to heaven". When he dies he utter: "It is finished" and the earth trembles and darkness cover the land. Then he ascended to heaven, and his greatest achievement was to conquer death.
    His name was of course...Hercules.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We all of course know the Redeemer who was no figure of pagan Greek polytheism. He was the true Saviour who wanted to help and save the sinful humans, by sacrificing himself. But he was willing to do this, out of love, pity and compassion for the humans.
    His name:...Prometheus.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now, who was the real Son of God, born by a mortal virgin mother, and often presented as the venerated newborn infant, or depicted riding a donkey? He healed the sick and did numerous wonders, among those making fine wine from plain water. He was killed but resurrected from the dead and became immortal. The followers of this God often ate a holy meal in a kind of sacramental union with the deity to achieve immortality after their death. One of this god's finest achievements was his death, his sacrifice, which delivers the whole human kind.
    The God was the very popular Dionysos.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Who is the "Light of the World", the One, the God who defeated death? Born of a virgin mother, considered the first true King by the people. Who rose from the grave and ascended to heaven. He defeated death, and must be considered the single true God.
    Of course the Egyptian Osiris!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now, the real God often called the "Light of the world", "The good shepherd", "The lamb" and is "…the way, the truth, and the life". Identified with a cross. Who could that be?
    Horus, (the son of Osiris).
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The original "Light of the world" was the mediator between God and man and was born on the 25.th of December. Local shepherds witnessed his birth and gave him gifts. He had 12 disciples, and when his work was done on earth he gathered together to a last supper, and then ascended to heaven. At doomsday he will return to pass judgment on both the living and the dead. The righteous will go to heaven and the sinful will be killed in a giant fire. Sunday is his holyday, and this religion gave us the seven days of the week. His followers called each other "brothers" and their leaders "fathers". They practiced babtism and established a sacred meal ritual, where flesh and blood was symbolically consumed by initiates. Above earth was heaven, and below the dark hell with demons and the sinners.

    The 'Light of the World' is of course the sungod Mithra.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wise men were led to his birth by a star, and his conception was miraculous. After his birth the ruler in the area wanted him dead and started a hunt for the child. But his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who told them to escape over the river with the holy child. Here, he was met by shepherds. The boy grew up and did many great deeds, and was the mediator between God and man.

    His name: Krishna.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Who then, was the God whose mother was told by an angel that she would give birth to a holy child destined to be a Saviour? Even as a child he instructed the priests in the temple in religous matters, while his parents were looking for him. He started his religious career when he was ca 30 years of age, and surrounded himself with 12 disciples. One of the disciples is his favorite another is a traitor. He and his disciples abstain from wealth and travel around talking in parables and metaphors. This God called himself "Son of Man" and was referred to as "Prophet", "Master" and "Lord". He did many great wonders and healed the sick, blind could see again and deaf hear.
    He also walked on water. When one of his disciples tried to do the same, he started to sink - his faith was not strong enough.

    We are here obviously talking about Buddha.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Our Saviour cannot be mistaken for any other. He performed countless miracles on earth, miracles well attested to by bystanders. He healed the sick and the crippled, restored sight to the blind, cast out demons, and even raised the dead! His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. He was crucified, rose from the tomb and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his power over death, after which he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. He was known as "the Son of God!" His message is of love and compassion.
    We give you: Apollonius of Tyana*
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    And there is of course the God-man, the prophet, the founder of a great monotheistic religion that still exist today. He preached that there was only one true God, and his teachings focused on the eternal fight between good and evil. The teachings include the idea of the Saviour will wake the dead and pass judgment on all. The righteous ones goes to Paradise and the sinful straight to a burning Hell. The very word of Paradise stems from this religion. This semigod started his career in his early thirties, and had a following of disciples. As a band of monks they wandered around, preaching their religion. He was eventually killed and sent to heaven.
    And he was the Persian Zarathustra.
    The problem for Jesus is that all these deities are much older than him.
    "A man's got to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry
    _______________________________________________

  17. #46
    Senior Member Padre Blanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrat77 View Post
    It's there, available for streaming....
    Thanks! I'll add it and watch it, maybe Thursday evening!
    Padre Blanco
    2007 VTX 1300 R Titanium, Honda 24L Bags, Memphis Shades Shield, Kury Flame Grips, Mustang Vintage Sport Touring Seat, Progressive Front Springs and Alls Balls Tapered Bearings

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