Darksider leaving his mark on the Dragon
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    Senior Member Knight's Avatar
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    Default Darksider leaving his mark on the Dragon



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    Hope the rider wasnt hurt
    Last edited by Knight; 04-02-2012 at 07:40 PM.
    http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=211&pictureid=950

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    Senior Member speedsville's Avatar
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    Well at least he had on a full face helmet and a good jacket.
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    Certainly, you can't be suggesting that the TINY bit of rubber on the corner of his tire was unable to provide enough grip?!

    Steve

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    Senior Member ClevelandRocks's Avatar
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    Who'd a thunkt it

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    Senior Member Jon's1800VTXC's Avatar
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    Looks like over rode his riding ability more than anything
    Why is common sense not so common

    Why doesn't P.E.T.A. ever attack a biker

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    i thought car tires didnt ride on the corner of the tire



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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    Looks like over rode his riding ability more than anything


    Really? Looks to me like the tire is barely on the road. Working on cars all day a few degrees of camber will wear out an edge of a tire rather quickly. Im talking a few degrees as less than 5. You put on a car tire and try to take a turn that may require some 25* lean angle and expect that tire have a large enough patch on the ground? I pretty much laughed at my screen on that picture, what else do you expect to happen, BUT i bet he gets great mileage out of his tires! He could've replaced his tires 10 times for the price he's going to pay to fix his bike. "why is common sense not so common"

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    Senior Member WSL91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    Looks like over rode his riding ability more than anything
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    Looks like over rode his riding ability on those 'long wearing' tires not designed to lean, more than anything. A man with a $20K murdersickle has to save a buck where he can!! I am sure he knows more about tire design than the engineers at Dunlop, Michelin, Bridgestone, etc. Amazing how smart these mudersickle guys are, ain't it?




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    Senior Member fourmaxk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    Looks like over rode his riding ability more than anything
    Sorry, didn't read all of the posts. But initially it looks like in pic # 2 that he may have been "off line". If so, I can picture him shutting the throttle and catching some brake, that upset him.

    Ridden the Dragon a bunch, & on a cruiser if you get out of shape it can be very hard to retrieve it!!
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    Senior Member heffly's Avatar
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    Hope that guy is ok. I will never fault freedom of choice, and, thanks for the learning experience.
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    Senior Member WSL91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Certainly, you can't be suggesting that the TINY bit of rubber on the corner of his tire was unable to provide enough grip?!

    Steve
    Look at your motorcycle tire and describe how much of it is in contact with the road. Not much different
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    Senior Member aardvark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSL91 View Post
    Look at your motorcycle tire and describe how much of it is in contact with the road. Not much different

    Its more about contour than contact...square vs rounded....pretty obvious....


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    Senior Member Philscbx's Avatar
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    WSL91 Look at your motorcycle tire and describe how much of it is in contact with the road. Not much different
    Quote Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
    Its more about contour than contact...square vs rounded....pretty obvious....
    So you totally disregard he locked it up, and locked up, a M/T would of saved him.

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    Senior Member wp120470's Avatar
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    Not one rider here has given the thought to how far the bike was leaning over? Maybe the right side frame was on the ground and lifted the rear tire enough to start the skid. In the second pic look closely to his tires. The front looks like a metzler with no tread in the middle. The rear c/t sidewall looks like it has been run low on air and the sidewall has been heated up because that is what a car tire does when the sidewall has to bend. I love the idea of major mileage, but for me I will put my life in the hands of an engineer that gets paid to design a tire for what it is intended to do. I will keep my the stock dunlop on the rear and put a new ME880 on when it gets to that time. The pics show an accident only, I will leave speculation into the cause of it up to his insurance adjuster.

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    Senior Member HereticWild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSL91 View Post
    Look at your motorcycle tire and describe how much of it is in contact with the road. Not much different
    That's what I thought all along - yet so many Darksiders say there is more of a contact patch - doesn't look any different in twisties...though a MT has more side wall contact ability. That said - people can ride on whatever they like - their choice.

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    Aardy...

    Where ya at bud?

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    Senior Member aardvark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOSHWALEE View Post
    Aardy...

    Where ya at bud?
    Man,how did I miss this thread...?

    Well,I am sure this will be blamed on rider error,or his inability to properly "negotiate" using a car tire.

    Its obvious from the pics,there is very little contact on the rear tire,and its riding up on the edge...
    The square contour of a car tire is just not well suited for cornering...Flat ,straight roads,or the dragstrip,maybe not an issue...

    Teetering on the edge of a tire like that in corners,doesnt happen with a bike tire,since they are designed
    to perform that way.....

    I expect the usual backpeddling from Darksiders,about how many are not having problems,and the "real world data"
    they say proves its ok....Then they will start with the personal attacks when that doesnt work....

    This video reinforces the opinion I have had all along....


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    Senior Member Capt. Rory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aardvark View Post



    This video reinforces the opinion I have had all along....

    It also reinforces my opinion, that cruisers are not to be ridden like sportbikes.
    '04 1300S or at least used to be.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Rory View Post
    It also reinforces my opinion, that cruisers are not to be ridden like sportbikes.

    I agree with that observation also...
    I hear VTX riders talk about draggin the pegs or floorboards,and wonder "why would you do that on an
    800 lb cruiser.?" I think at that point you are exceeding the limitations of a particular type of bike....

    I had a Kaw KZ1000 that would corner like crazy,almost dragging my knee..
    I wouldnt attempt that on the X....


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    Senior Member ronazon's Avatar
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    May as well throw my 2 cents in here too...

    He over-rode his ability. Looks like he high-sided to me. Locked up the brake then let off in the middle of the turn. Pretty textbook example actually. Car tire had nothing to do with it.

    I have more than 20,000 miles on a car tire. It is different and not as good when trying to flick the bike in the twistys. But, on the open highway when burning up the miles...it rocks! It's also great for 2-up and pulling a trailer. It is a compromise though. The nature of a big cruiser fits well with a car tire. The nature of a rider may not.

    Regarding scrapping pegs...I have done that many times in Colorado during the Coloradical. It is a pretty normal thing there. I got comfortable doing it after about 1,000 corners in a row for several days. If you ride your bike enough, any bike...and ride it in enough turns...you will learn the maximum lean angle. If you do it enough past that...you can even scrape the pegs through the corners and feel comfortable with it, know exactly when to expect it and ride through it. But, you also need to remember...if there is a bump in the middle of the corner...bad news!
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    Senior Member eznkc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Rory View Post
    It also reinforces my opinion, that cruisers are not to be ridden like sportbikes.
    +1 on that ,I love the twisties but know the diffrence in my bikes handling .

  23. #23
    Senior Member fuzzy's Avatar
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    Default Study the Pictures Carefully

    In the 1st pic he's coming into a curve 2 curves before the accident.

    In each pic the ct is on the edge. Please don't tell me this is good and not a problem. If riding on the sharp corner was safe, all tires would be shaped like a disk.

    I'm not saying ct's are dangerous but every video I've seen of a ct being riden on the street shows it remaining (for the most part) flat with plenty of rubber to surface NOT as pictured in the O.P.

    MAX RUBBER ON THE ROAD IS SAFE. Only a MC tire can do that when the bike is keeled over and the pegs are scraping.

    Now, so that I don't pss off my Darkside friends who we are all sure only ride within the limits of their skill and equipment, ride your ct and enjoy.
    Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most.

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    Senior Member speedsville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
    Man,how did I miss this thread...?

    Well,I am sure this will be blamed on rider error,or his inability to properly "negotiate" using a car tire.

    Its obvious from the pics,there is very little contact on the rear tire,and its riding up on the edge...
    The square contour of a car tire is just not well suited for cornering...Flat ,straight roads,or the dragstrip,maybe not an issue...

    Teetering on the edge of a tire like that in corners,doesnt happen with a bike tire,since they are designed
    to perform that way.....

    I expect the usual backpeddling from Darksiders,about how many are not having problems,and the "real world data"
    they say proves its ok....Then they will start with the personal attacks when that doesnt work....

    This video reinforces the opinion I have had all along....
    You are correct, of course, only a mad man would ride on a CT unless they know how to ride.
    CT wannbe riders taking it too far:: well shouldn't be on a CT. CT's are for men and real riders only.
    Thanks for pointing that out to us.
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    Senior Member aardvark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedsville View Post
    You are correct, of course, only a mad man would ride on a CT unless they know how to ride.
    CT wannbe riders taking it too far:: well shouldn't be on a CT. CT's are for men and real riders only.
    Thanks for pointing that out to us.

    well, seems grandpa woke from his nap....

    thanks for checking in....


    Sarcasm and Car tires seem to go together.....




    wait for it....wait for it...






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    Quote Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
    well, seems grandpa woke from his nap....

    thanks for checking in....


    Sarcasm and Car tires seem to go together.....




    wait for it....wait for it...





    NO NO no sarcasm; you have to be a real rider to handle a CT. And have some balls, which this guy had, just made a mistake.
    "Racing" downhill things can get surprising fast. Even in a car equipped with good CT's

    And by the way I didn't just wake up I just got back from volunteering at Meals on Wheels.



    wait for it....wait for it...


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    Senior Member wp120470's Avatar
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    Here we go again.

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    Senior Member DrRadar's Avatar
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    Looks to me that the tire is probably not the best choice of a DS tire for that bike also.
    Lower aspect ration and square profile.
    I love my Yokohama Avid S on my bike and it does handle the curves better than the stock dunlop IMO.

    I'll be riding the Dragon this week with my CT and the wife on the back.
    I will not be flying. Just a nice easy slow cruise. I want to enjoy the ride and the views.
    I've got nothing to prove to some photographer or their viewers on the web.
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    Batwing, BadX double decker 1800C seat and lots of chrome. Riding DS Yokohama Avid S 205/70-15 with Dynabeads......Smooth Ridin
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    Senior Member Badleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedsville View Post
    You are correct, of course, only a mad man would ride on a CT unless they know how to ride.
    CT wannbe riders taking it too far:: well shouldn't be on a CT. CT's are for men and real riders only.
    Thanks for pointing that out to us
    .
    This isnt the first time this kind of crack has been thrown out..I've heard most of the bragging from the sensitive darkside crowd. Real Men huh?

    Why this guy crashed? He messed up..

    As far as the car tire issue, I tried it.. I tried it because of all the glowing reviews and awesome advantages of the car tire over the no good stock motorcycle tire..

    I posted my results before but Im gonna post em here again because if I can save just one person from wasting their time putting one on then its the worth the time it takes to type this in.

    If you look at the picture of that bike as its leaned over it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine that the axis is off, that rear tire trailing through that turn is shifted over maybe two inches or so messing up the way the bike was engineered to handle...not to mention the contact patch being narrow and bordering on running on the sidewall that wasn't meant to be driven on, though others will argue other videos of similar contact patches with tires under inflated to demonstrate that.

    I had a michelen hydroedge on a 2003 VTX 1800R

    Primarily the handling on the bike was terrible, downright unnacceptable, every turn is a chore and a mystery, I ran it over 200 miles at various pressures solo and two up.

    If you had enough pressure in it to keep it from feeling like you were riding on a water balloon then it was as hard as riding on a solid tire, way too firm.

    Then when you got it up on the edge deep in a tight curve it felt like it was hinging over to the sidewall, not funny!

    I never liked the way they look on a motorcycle but was willing to overlook that if the other benefits would outweigh my personal preference on that one.

    There are only a few of us on here that ever speak up against the darkside because we usually get attacked and inuslted about our riding skills or told that we are narrow minded. Or well you just have to "get used to it", "its different"


    I have read a few comments on the vtxoa from others that have, like me, tried it and did not like it. It seems that most of those that try it and don't like it just pass over the rabid darkside threads and don't bother to comment because it seems futile.

    I remember reading one comment from a member that said it was " the worst handling he had ever experienced on a motorcycle", another after returning to a motorcycle tire was " Wow its like I got my bike back again, I forgot how good a bike is suppose to handle!"

    As far me I couldn't wait to get that thing off there and put on my "expensive" Dunlop elite 3. I tried it, I hated it, I'll stay on motorcycle tires that were designed for motorcycles, even if you call them inferior or expensive.

    Maybe someday I'll grow in to a "real man"


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    Senior Member NDAna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badleg View Post
    This isnt the first time this kind of crack has been thrown out..I've heard most of the bragging from the sensitive darkside crowd. Real Men huh?

    Why this guy crashed? He messed up..

    As far as the car tire issue, I tried it.. I tried it because of all the glowing reviews and awesome advantages of the car tire over the no good stock motorcycle tire..

    I posted my results before but Im gonna post em here again because if I can save just one person from wasting their time putting one on then its the worth the time it takes to type this in.

    If you look at the picture of that bike as its leaned over it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine that the axis is off, that rear tire trailing through that turn is shifted over maybe two inches or so messing up the way the bike was engineered to handle...not to mention the contact patch being narrow and bordering on running on the sidewall that wasn't meant to be driven on, though others will argue other videos of similar contact patches with tires under inflated to demonstrate that.

    I had a michelen hydroedge on a 2003 VTX 1800R

    Primarily the handling on the bike was terrible, downright unnacceptable, every turn is a chore and a mystery, I ran it over 200 miles at various pressures solo and two up.

    If you had enough pressure in it to keep it from feeling like you were riding on a water balloon then it was as hard as riding on a solid tire, way too firm.

    Then when you got it up on the edge deep in a tight curve it felt like it was hinging over to the sidewall, not funny!

    I never liked the way they look on a motorcycle but was willing to overlook that if the other benefits would outweigh my personal preference on that one.

    There are only a few of us on here that ever speak up against the darkside because we usually get attacked and inuslted about our riding skills or told that we are narrow minded. Or well you just have to "get used to it", "its different"


    I have read a few comments on the vtxoa from others that have, like me, tried it and did not like it. It seems that most of those that try it and don't like it just pass over the rabid darkside threads and don't bother to comment because it seems futile.

    I remember reading one comment from a member that said it was " the worst handling he had ever experienced on a motorcycle", another after returning to a motorcycle tire was " Wow its like I got my bike back again, I forgot how good a bike is suppose to handle!"

    As far me I couldn't wait to get that thing off there and put on my "expensive" Dunlop elite 3. I tried it, I hated it, I'll stay on motorcycle tires that were designed for motorcycles, even if you call them inferior or expensive.

    Maybe someday I'll grow in to a "real man"

    I run the same tire at 36 PSI and have had it for nearly 40,000 miles. I run the twisties hard and have none of the issues you describe. The HE is one of the most recommended tires for DS use and have heard of no one else with your issues. A shame it didn't work out for you. Seriously sounds like there was more going on with the bike than just a tire. As far as insults go the DS is usually the one getting the brunt of them. Enjoy what you ride.
    Sam/NDAna #15542 IB#38401 '04 1800 C, HID, Audiovox Cruise, 2xDarkSide & enough other stuff to keep me comfortable. Now have H4 HID & LED headlights available NDs.HIDs@gmail.com "Can you see me now?" For DarkSide info go here http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/forum.htm


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