Another year - another clutch!
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Thread: Another year - another clutch!

  1. #1
    Senior Member PunisherVTX's Avatar
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    Default Another year - another clutch!

    The VTX clutch really SUX! Last year, after using the MTC clutch, the dealer convinced me to use the stock plates with Barnett springs, it was OK for about a month....
    Now I have a 10-disc Force-One to try (installing now)

    Note the cooked disks (right is outer disks). As I recall, someone mentioned a lack of lubrication....

    clutch.jpg

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    Senior Member neil's Avatar
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    Default clutch

    i replaced mt stock clutch with a mtc with shims now for the last year when the bike is cold and put it into gear it bangs into gear,i think i should take out the shims,how long did your clutch last

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    Junior Member BigBoreVTX's Avatar
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    Might it be the OIL? and is it for a wet clutch?
    No matter the case sorry about your luck.

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    Senior Member Jon's1800VTXC's Avatar
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    There are a few things that will cause a clutch to fail; wrong oil, no shims on an MTC, factory clutch is a POS etc. MTC's bang when cold because the plates stick together. If you rock the bike in gear it'll break them loose ahead of time or start in neutral and work the clutch lever a few times to get oil in there and they'll seperate. The MTC or Barnett are good clutches if installed correctly. You won't like the 10 disc clutch
    Why is common sense not so common

    Why doesn't P.E.T.A. ever attack a biker

  6. #5
    Senior Member PunisherVTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    There are a few things that will cause a clutch to fail; wrong oil, no shims on an MTC, factory clutch is a POS etc. MTC's bang when cold because the plates stick together. If you rock the bike in gear it'll break them loose ahead of time or start in neutral and work the clutch lever a few times to get oil in there and they'll seperate. The MTC or Barnett are good clutches if installed correctly. You won't like the 10 disc clutch
    Oil: Rotella T now, Mobil 4T before

    Shimmed according to MTC (called them). Is there a reason for 2-3 discs to be blue?

  7. #6
    Senior Member PunisherVTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neil View Post
    i replaced mt stock clutch with a mtc with shims now for the last year when the bike is cold and put it into gear it bangs into gear,i think i should take out the shims,how long did your clutch last
    Lasted 900 miles. I believe I used 3 or 4 shims per spring (I was told by MTC what to use) and Bare agreed

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    Senior Member z71carter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    There are a few things that will cause a clutch to fail; wrong oil, no shims on an MTC, factory clutch is a POS etc. MTC's bang when cold because the plates stick together. If you rock the bike in gear it'll break them loose ahead of time or start in neutral and work the clutch lever a few times to get oil in there and they'll seperate. The MTC or Barnett are good clutches if installed correctly. You won't like the 10 disc clutch
    Agreed here. I replaced mine stock with MTC a couple months ago and I used the light shims. Figured they were to be used for a reason. I'm very pleased with how mine grabs. You DO need to break them loose first for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by z71carter View Post
    Agreed here. I replaced mine stock with MTC a couple months ago and I used the light shims. Figured they were to be used for a reason. I'm very pleased with how mine grabs. You DO need to break them loose first for sure.
    I got a 07 f was just reading the new mtc dont needs shims or am i wrong

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    Senior Member Jon's1800VTXC's Avatar
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    Blue steel discs is usually from slippage. I forgot to list that some folks had issues with levers not fully returning and allowing clutch to slip. I've installed a bunch, prolly 15-20 and never had an issue except sticking plates.


    For the F guy, I just installed 2 in the last week and they had shims in the kits. I usually shim to .095 or more and also use stronger bolts
    Why is common sense not so common

    Why doesn't P.E.T.A. ever attack a biker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    Blue steel discs is usually from slippage. I forgot to list that some folks had issues with levers not fully returning and allowing clutch to slip. I've installed a bunch, prolly 15-20 and never had an issue except sticking plates.


    For the F guy, I just installed 2 in the last week and they had shims in the kits. I usually shim to .095 or more and also use stronger bolts
    I got out the stronger bolts dont dont kn how or what shims to really use

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    Senior Member Jon's1800VTXC's Avatar
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    I'm at work otherwise I could measure and tell you which ones I normally use. I want to say I use 2 thick and 1 thin on each post before installing the springs.


    Quote Originally Posted by gillahoon View Post
    I got out the stronger bolts dont dont kn how or what shims to really use
    Why is common sense not so common

    Why doesn't P.E.T.A. ever attack a biker

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    Senior Member 6sigmaford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    Blue steel discs is usually from slippage. I forgot to list that some folks had issues with levers not fully returning and allowing clutch to slip. I've installed a bunch, prolly 15-20 and never had an issue except sticking plates.


    For the F guy, I just installed 2 in the last week and they had shims in the kits. I usually shim to .095 or more and also use stronger bolts
    +1 the blue is from slippage. I would be very curious about the pressure plate stroke your getting (getting a clean disconnect). Also look the drum over really close for a spot to bind the friction. If the plates were in the right order it is weird that the stack slipped in the middle.
    Last edited by 6sigmaford; 04-10-2012 at 08:28 PM.
    Just a guy named Dan reliving his childhood on a 800 lb Gorilla Bike!
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    Senior Member Fender60's Avatar
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    I am getting ready to order a new clutch and have decided on the MTC but what steels should be used with it?

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    Senior Member 6sigmaford's Avatar
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    Default Steels

    I'd go with the Honda steels. They are well made and have the dimples for oil.
    Just a guy named Dan reliving his childhood on a 800 lb Gorilla Bike!
    2008 VTX 1800 F, VH Bigshots with Big City Thunder Baffles, Thunder Hurricane, PCIII, Desmog, ISO Grips w Throttle Boss, Mustang Seats, Kuryakyn Ergo Engine Guards w Silver Bullet Driving Lights, MTC Clutch, Dual AEM Wideband AF Meters, WOLO Horn, Rostra Electronic Cruise Control.

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    Senior Member PunisherVTX's Avatar
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    Jon:

    The stack height of the removed clutch is 44.50mm (1.751"). What is standard?

    I had a perfect disengage (no creeping at all, easy neutreal).slipped in 2-3-4-5 gears

    Replaced fluid (vacuum flushed).

    Jon, is it normal that the slave cylinder pushes out on it's on? I pushed it back in (was a bit hard) and it came out in a minute again. I would've expected it to stay in (slave that pushes the pressure plate)

    TY

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    Senior Member z71carter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gillahoon View Post
    I got a 07 f was just reading the new mtc dont needs shims or am i wrong
    It was advised to me to use a shim. I didn't want to over do it so I used the light shims. The stock sucked with no shims and honda springs so I figured with the stronger springs and light shims that came with the MTC would put me at a "happy medium."

  18. #17
    Senior Member z71carter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    I'm at work otherwise I could measure and tell you which ones I normally use. I want to say I use 2 thick and 1 thin on each post before installing the springs.
    You put the shims on the inside or outside of the springs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherVTX View Post
    Lasted 900 miles. I believe I used 3 or 4 shims per spring (I was told by MTC what to use) and Bare agreed
    Are you sure you don't have your master cylinder too full of fluid? If you do, the longer you ride the fluid heats up and if it has no place to expand to it will start to apply pressure to the clutch.
    As far as the bluing on your center steels it has to be lack of oil. All steels are in the same slots in the clutch pack and can't slip independent of the other ones. Same goes for the friction disc's, except that they are in the opposite slots.
    Last edited by planenut_2000; 04-10-2012 at 10:01 PM. Reason: additions
    2002 1800R

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    Senior Member Jon's1800VTXC's Avatar
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    After installing all the discs, install the cover plate, then slide the shims on each post. Then install springs, washers and bolts. TOrque to 108 inch pounds


    Quote Originally Posted by z71carter View Post
    You put the shims on the inside or outside of the springs?
    Why is common sense not so common

    Why doesn't P.E.T.A. ever attack a biker

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    Senior Member Jon's1800VTXC's Avatar
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    The pushrod will creep out without anything to hold it. Once assembled re-bleed the system. I don't have the stack height but might have time when I get home at midnight to measure it. It shouldn't have slipped at all. Something is wrong somewhere. What levers do you have?



    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherVTX View Post
    Jon:

    The stack height of the removed clutch is 44.50mm (1.751"). What is standard?

    I had a perfect disengage (no creeping at all, easy neutreal).slipped in 2-3-4-5 gears

    Replaced fluid (vacuum flushed).

    Jon, is it normal that the slave cylinder pushes out on it's on? I pushed it back in (was a bit hard) and it came out in a minute again. I would've expected it to stay in (slave that pushes the pressure plate)

    TY
    Why is common sense not so common

    Why doesn't P.E.T.A. ever attack a biker

  22. #21
    Senior Member simpleman45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by planenut_2000 View Post
    Are you sure you don't have your master cylinder too full of fluid? If you do, the longer you ride the fluid heats up and if it has no place to expand to it will start to apply pressure to the clutch.
    As far as the bluing on your center steels it has to be lack of oil. All steels are in the same slots in the clutch pack and can't slip independent of the other ones. Same goes for the friction disc's, except that they are in the opposite slots.
    That's an interesting observation. I know when I changed my clutch and brake master cylinders they were filled up all the way with the original fluid and I got them refilled as much as I could with the bars turned like the manual says and the master cylinders as level as possible. Anybody ever hear of this?? Now I'm slightly paranoid that I may wear my clutch prematurely.

    I was thinking maybe the inner plates burned due to lack of oil. I've seen the procedure for drilling the clutch basket to get more oil to the inner plates. Maybe the op drilled his. Maybe it was a case of low quality discs.

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    Senior Member z71carter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    After installing all the discs, install the cover plate, then slide the shims on each post. Then install springs, washers and bolts. TOrque to 108 inch pounds
    That's what I thought. I'm glad this came up. A friend of mine put his on the outside with the washers. He hasn't had any problems YET. Do you think he could?

  24. #23
    Junior Member Blackjack1's Avatar
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    Default At 5000 miles on stock clutch 05 ???

    Jon,
    I'm at 5000 miles on stock clutch, 05 F seems to be running/shifting ok.

    I ride conservitive, When / at what milage might I expect to try and get on your
    schedule for clutch service / other needed service.

    You come highly reccommended - Can you PM me your contact into for service - Thanks

    Ain't nothing but a thing ---- minimal 2up comfort mods
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  25. #24
    Senior Member Jon's1800VTXC's Avatar
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    It'll work either way

    Quote Originally Posted by z71carter View Post
    That's what I thought. I'm glad this came up. A friend of mine put his on the outside with the washers. He hasn't had any problems YET. Do you think he could?
    Why is common sense not so common

    Why doesn't P.E.T.A. ever attack a biker

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    Senior Member z71carter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    It'll work either way
    Ahh good deal.

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    Senior Member PunisherVTX's Avatar
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    I saw something about drilling, but no I did not do it.

    Interesting point because:

    All friction plates and all steel plates will rotate at the same speed (but if there is slipping, there wll be a speed difference between the steel/friction plates but as a whole group), for the steel plates to turn dark, it means that they were subject to more heat and that implies that while the clutch was slipping, those disks had greater grip, maybe due to less oil...

    Interesting that those are the disks in the part of the basket that had no exposed notches/grooves. Time for the dremel maybe... let me go see the basket... BRB

  28. #27
    Senior Member Jon's1800VTXC's Avatar
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    I've seen them fail at less than 8k miles and seen them run for over 50K miles. It depends on the rider. My was slipping at 8K. PM Sent

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack1 View Post
    Jon,
    I'm at 5000 miles on stock clutch, 05 F seems to be running/shifting ok.

    I ride conservitive, When / at what milage might I expect to try and get on your
    schedule for clutch service / other needed service.

    You come highly reccommended - Can you PM me your contact into for service - Thanks
    Why is common sense not so common

    Why doesn't P.E.T.A. ever attack a biker

  29. #28
    Senior Member 1BADXRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack1 View Post
    Jon,
    I'm at 5000 miles on stock clutch, 05 F seems to be running/shifting ok.

    I ride conservitive, When / at what milage might I expect to try and get on your
    schedule for clutch service / other needed service.

    You come highly reccommended - Can you PM me your contact into for service - Thanks
    If I were you I would swap out the stock springs for heavier ones at my next oil change. My stock clutch just started slipping at 9000 miles on my 07 F. Now that it started slipping I will be replacing EVERYTHING with MTC. If I had put in heavier springs when I put the pipes on I would probably have had no worries for many mile to come and only had to buy a set of springs.

  30. #29
    Senior Member Jon's1800VTXC's Avatar
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    I measured a new set of MTC and good steel plates, 1.763

    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherVTX View Post
    Jon:

    The stack height of the removed clutch is 44.50mm (1.751"). What is standard?

    I had a perfect disengage (no creeping at all, easy neutreal).slipped in 2-3-4-5 gears

    Replaced fluid (vacuum flushed).

    Jon, is it normal that the slave cylinder pushes out on it's on? I pushed it back in (was a bit hard) and it came out in a minute again. I would've expected it to stay in (slave that pushes the pressure plate)

    TY
    Why is common sense not so common

    Why doesn't P.E.T.A. ever attack a biker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon's1800VTXC View Post
    I measured a new set of MTC and good steel plates, 1.763
    When u talk about shims u talking stock springs. The new mtc clutch comes with better springs. Ever with the heavy duty new springs still shim. Cause the new kir says new and inproved or something to that effect.

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