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  1. #1
    Senior Member Doc Rick's Avatar
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    Default Another Electrical Question

    When a car turns on, the power comes from the battery and then the alternator supplies the power. Is it the same with the bike, battery starts the bike and then runs on the equilivant of an alternator? I think my "alternator" is dead. Bike seems to be running off the battery and draining it. I got stuck in Nashua tonight when I went to restart the bike. A buddy of mine who lived 4 blocks over, came over and jumped me. The lights and the dash have a slight pulse and it gets worse in neutral. When I got home, I tried to restart the bike again and the battery was weak and couldnt start it.
    What is the part that runs like the alternator?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member mrlhood's Avatar
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    Thumbs up From VTX Repair Manual

    Hey Doc,
    Looks like there is an alternator similar to a car built into the crankcase.
    Here are some snapshots from the repair manual.
    If you PM me your e-mail I can send the .pdf file to you as an attachment.
    Hope this helps.
    Paul
    Picture 1.pngPicture 2.jpgPicture 3.jpgPicture 4.jpgPicture 5.jpg
    Ride safe,

    Live free!
    09' Metallic Black, 1300R, Progressive Fork Springs,
    Ultimate Saddle w/Stock Pillion Mod., V&H Big Shots, Chrome!


  4. #3
    Senior Member mrlhood's Avatar
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    Default Some more from the manual...

    Picture 6.jpgPicture 7.jpgPicture 8.jpg
    click on image for enlarged view.
    Wish i knew more about the system, looks a bit more complicated than i can handle right now.
    Just a guess... Maybe it's the rectifier?
    Last edited by mrlhood; 04-10-2012 at 09:23 PM.
    Ride safe,

    Live free!
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    Ultimate Saddle w/Stock Pillion Mod., V&H Big Shots, Chrome!


  5. #4
    Senior Member moo315's Avatar
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    Doc put a meter on the battery when its running, it should be like 13-14 volts, if it 12 or less its not getting a charge from alternator.
    03 1800R Ultimate Big Boy 4 piece seat w/blinker buddy,PCIII,Switchblade w/s,Cobra Classic Deluxe Slash-cut exhaust,Cobra passenger floorboards,Paladin Engine Bars
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  6. #5
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    I have a spare battery tender and you are really close if you need it. Tonight... tomorrow. I'm home all day tomorrow.

    **Quote from a good friend- "I know you are a motorcycle crack junkie, who, sleeps, eats and does who knows what else on your bike 23 1\2 hours 6.9 days a week."

  7. #6
    Senior Member Plumcrazy's Avatar
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    Doc, if I remember correctly, the alternator produces an AC voltage, and the rectifier converts it to 12volts DC.
    The rectifier is down low on the swingarm I think.
    I'd start by measuring voltage on both the input and output sides of the rectifier. That will tell you what side has the problem.

    2010 Victory Cross Country. She's a keeper.

  8. #7
    Senior Member shaw351c's Avatar
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    Hey Doc, there is an alternator on the bike just like a car. First we have to see if it is charging, then procede from there. Like mike said you should get the bike running and rev her up to 2500rpms and see what the voltage is on the bike. Im off to work right now but a quick search on the main board should give you some answers to what your readings are. I forget what the specific rpms and final output voltages are but in basic numbers they should be close to .... 2500~3000 rpms and 14~16 volts dc . you might have a bad voltage regulator or something wrong in the alternator itself. I will research the matter tomorrow a little bit to try and help you out. Good luck. Joe


    2003 1800R with too much to list

  9. #8
    Senior Member mrlhood's Avatar
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    Default Just had a thought... or three.

    Like Joe, Dave and Mike said, there are a few systems working here and lot's of ways they could be messing up.

    Now I'll be the first to admit, this is a little out of my league and I'd defer to Joe and the rest of the guys guys with a little more experience any day of the week.
    Just trying to pay it forward with a little guesswork here but, if it were me, and I admit this is where my expertise(LOL) ends...

    I'd check the charging system and at the same time with all the wiring as of late look for and/or think about the recent changes you've made and recheck for proper connections.

    1) The charging system has a fault and cannot properly charge the battery anymore.
    2) There is a drain on the battery like a intermittent short or an improper ground that cannot be overcome by a properly running charging system.
    3) Taking from what Dave said... The pulsing thing in the lights sounds like something to do with alternating current from the alternator not going through the voltage rectifier properly.
    Again adding to what Dave said... It's down by where you have the air horn mounted. Did a wire come loose perhaps?

    After checking all that, this is where I'd call for the boys with ambulance X. Hope you get her back to normal soon. With these guys to help I think you will be up a running again soon. Wish I could do more.
    Ride safe,

    Live free!
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    Ultimate Saddle w/Stock Pillion Mod., V&H Big Shots, Chrome!


  10. #9
    Senior Member Doc Rick's Avatar
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    Thanks guys! I guess I better get a volt/amp meter. any suggestions? I'll head to harbor freight tomorrow.

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    Got one of them too you can borrow.... I offered up the tender thinking your battery needed a charge from siting all winter..

    **Quote from a good friend- "I know you are a motorcycle crack junkie, who, sleeps, eats and does who knows what else on your bike 23 1\2 hours 6.9 days a week."

  12. #11
    Senior Member CaptDanbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Rick View Post
    Thanks guys! I guess I better get a volt/amp meter. any suggestions? I'll head to harbor freight tomorrow.
    Doc.....did you just get a new battery for you bike? I remember you saying it went dead once before (I think). I have a volt-ohm meter you can borrow. In fact you can borrow some of my time as well since I am unemployed. Let me know....and in the mean time.....to run any tests.....charge the battery.
    Tomorrow would work well for me. I am checking on a prospect today.
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  13. #12
    Senior Member DuelXer's Avatar
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    Doc

    With all your new accessories do you think you might be overloading the charging system.
    Over 8yrs, 65K miles and reliable as ever


  14. #13
    Senior Member Doc Rick's Avatar
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    Steve #4: I have a tender. Thanks.
    Dan: I have tomorrow available too.
    Ken: I thought that too, but what do I do?

  15. #14
    Senior Member Air4ce76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuelXer View Post
    Doc

    With all your new accessories do you think you might be overloading the charging system.
    Good point Ken, was thinking the same.
    Live Free or Die
    Courage is fear holding on a minute longer.
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  16. #15
    Senior Member DuelXer's Avatar
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    This might be helpful in finding the issue....

    http://www.electrosport.com/technica...ng-diagram.pdf
    Over 8yrs, 65K miles and reliable as ever


  17. #16
    Senior Member Air4ce76's Avatar
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    Hey Doc maybe you can add an aux generator. Attach to frame and and let your back wheel do all the work... Sorry, work a little slow today.




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  18. #17
    Senior Member shaw351c's Avatar
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    Can Jerry get you a chrome one for $10 ????

    Doc you have me cell number, you can call any evening after 5pm I should be awake by then if you need a shout out. Joe


    2003 1800R with too much to list

  19. #18
    Senior Member Doc Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaw351c View Post
    Can Jerry get you a chrome one for $10 ????

    Doc you have me cell number, you can call any evening after 5pm I should be awake by then if you need a shout out. Joe
    Thanks Joe, you know I'll call if I need you.

  20. #19
    Senior Member CaptDanbo's Avatar
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    Doc.....give me a call if you want me to come over on Thursday. I have your general location but I would need your actual address too.
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    mine did the same thing last year. ended up being the stator. easy fix. need help testing or any questions let me know! could be voltage regulator.test that first but if stator is gone then u wont have power going in or out of regulator. the stator is your alternator. under primary cover. got mine cheap from a place in hampstead

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    and if i remember right the regulator is behind your exhaust under swingarm the rectifier is in the case near the stator. if it is the stator or rectifier some stators come with the rectifier some dont

  23. #22
    Senior Member mrlhood's Avatar
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    Default How are you making out?

    He Doc,
    Just wondering how you were doing with your X-lectrical malfunction?
    Any diagnosis / prognosis?
    Hope you are making effective progress with any corrective surgery if needed?
    Wishing you a speedy X-covery.
    Paul
    Ride safe,

    Live free!
    09' Metallic Black, 1300R, Progressive Fork Springs,
    Ultimate Saddle w/Stock Pillion Mod., V&H Big Shots, Chrome!


  24. #23
    Senior Member Hans&Feet's Avatar
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    I was searching "stator" and saw this, figured I would share some info. Check the fuse holder, the 4P and 3P connectors. Some 3P connector pins have burned and created an open circuit. The stator produces an AC voltage. The Rectifier/Regulator is near the muffler support bracket. My stator died a year ago..
    http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/...rgingckt-1.jpg
    Last edited by Hans&Feet; 04-12-2012 at 09:16 PM.
    2005 1300c Red, Mustang seat, HK 2.5 straights. Leds for safety-front & back.
    157,197 VTX miles...​On 10th frt tire, 13th rear tire
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  25. #24
    Senior Member Doc Rick's Avatar
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    Yesterday Danbo came by with volt meter and test lights. Battery on a full charge came up 13.1 volts. Good. Ohms test on alternator 3 yellow wires came up good. Battery leakage at rest was good. But Battery voltage running at 5000 rpms showed some issues. Running with the extra lights and new radio ran the voltage a little lower than expected. Disconnect the light, and voltage was better. Discover some small issues that needed addressing. When hooking up the radio, I connected the main power to a power wire related to the lights. What Danbo and I discovered was that I connected the stereo to the relay power wire which I just disconnected from the accessory wire in the bucket and reconnected to the blue/white wire that goes off during start up. In a previous blog, I just explained how this wire is low power and the relay was safe to hook up to it. But I didnt realize the radio was drawing a lot more on this wire. So, reconnected the radio power to the right wire. I also discovered that when I was in the headlight bucket last week, that I exposed a contact on my garage door opener which works with the highbeam switch. So when Danbo and I were testing voltage at 5000rpm, it says to do this with highbeam on. Everytime we did this, we blew a fuse to the highbeam. So we fixed that contact and bought more fuses.
    We decided to leave the lights disconnected for now. I haven't had a chance to ride and then test the voltage. This will determine if the battery is still getting drained during the ride (AKA not getting charged), but if the battery is good, then I'm going to try lower watt bulbs for the lights (running 35w now).

    I'm actually going to head home for lunch and take her out for a ride. To be continue...

    Thank you very much to Dan for coming over and his lessons with a volt meter. Thanks to Paul, for reminding me that I have a manual(thanks to Jerry who sold me the manual for $10) and chapter 16 was where I needed to be. Thanks To Ken, who sent me a flow chart to check a charge system. Thanks to everyone else for their input.
    PS Dan will tell you that during any given week, I don't have a rental wife on hand. No wife to be found here.

  26. #25
    Senior Member CaptDanbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Rick View Post
    Yesterday Danbo came by with volt meter and test lights. Battery on a full charge came up 13.1 volts. Good. Ohms test on alternator 3 yellow wires came up good. Battery leakage at rest was good. But Battery voltage running at 5000 rpms showed some issues. Running with the extra lights and new radio ran the voltage a little lower than expected. Disconnect the light, and voltage was better. Discover some small issues that needed addressing. When hooking up the radio, I connected the main power to a power wire related to the lights. What Danbo and I discovered was that I connected the stereo to the relay power wire which I just disconnected from the accessory wire in the bucket and reconnected to the blue/white wire that goes off during start up. In a previous blog, I just explained how this wire is low power and the relay was safe to hook up to it. But I didnt realize the radio was drawing a lot more on this wire. So, reconnected the radio power to the right wire. I also discovered that when I was in the headlight bucket last week, that I exposed a contact on my garage door opener which works with the highbeam switch. So when Danbo and I were testing voltage at 5000rpm, it says to do this with highbeam on. Everytime we did this, we blew a fuse to the highbeam. So we fixed that contact and bought more fuses.
    We decided to leave the lights disconnected for now. I haven't had a chance to ride and then test the voltage. This will determine if the battery is still getting drained during the ride (AKA not getting charged), but if the battery is good, then I'm going to try lower watt bulbs for the lights (running 35w now).

    I'm actually going to head home for lunch and take her out for a ride. To be continue...

    Thank you very much to Dan for coming over and his lessons with a volt meter. Thanks to Paul, for reminding me that I have a manual(thanks to Jerry who sold me the manual for $10) and chapter 16 was where I needed to be. Thanks To Ken, who sent me a flow chart to check a charge system. Thanks to everyone else for their input.
    PS Dan will tell you that during any given week, I don't have a rental wife on hand. No wife to be found here.
    I wish we had seen the voltages from the stator connections before going to your house Doc. We could have tested that as well. The stator resistance checked out good, but I didn't see anything on the troubleshooting about the voltages. We can always check it prior to your trip south. Hopefully you are good to go.
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  27. #26
    Senior Member Hans&Feet's Avatar
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    The continuity test is good quick test and to see if the stator is grounded. Unless you can discern .2 ohms between a short and a good stator then the voltage test is required.
    2005 1300c Red, Mustang seat, HK 2.5 straights. Leds for safety-front & back.
    157,197 VTX miles...​On 10th frt tire, 13th rear tire
    When you stop learning, you are dying.
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  28. #27
    Senior Member Plumcrazy's Avatar
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    As an electrician, it is my duty to inform you,
    "Wiring is NOT a hobby."
    Thank you.

    2010 Victory Cross Country. She's a keeper.

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plumcrazy View Post
    As an electrician, it is my duty to inform you,
    "Wiring is NOT a hobby."
    Thank you.
    As a non-electrician, I will certainly vouch for that!

    **Quote from a good friend- "I know you are a motorcycle crack junkie, who, sleeps, eats and does who knows what else on your bike 23 1\2 hours 6.9 days a week."

  30. #29
    Senior Member rikyfre's Avatar
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    Doc, clean up your ground connections... both ends.
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