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    Default Laser sights on a small pistol?

    I have heard that laser sights on a hand gun are more show than go. My instructor said there is a rule of 3. Most defensive gun fights occur in less than 3 feet, 3 shots or less are fired and last about 3 seconds. I can see if your searching for an intruder in a darkened home it could give you that intimidation factor but the blinding light of a flashlight will give you more of an advantage. Anyone have any practical experience where a laser made a huge difference?


    What part of "shall not be infringed" dont you understand?

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    Senior Member Philscbx's Avatar
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    Now aim at the tires at 70 at night - Laser is needed.
    End of story.

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    Senior Member g1nomad's Avatar
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    My wife won't try any other gun than hers with the Crimson Trace
    laser grip. She doesn't really use the sights as much as the laser
    I guess. She can out shoot me killing paper targets, and
    passed her CCW with it. We both have a Ruger LCR 38 Special.
    We have never owned guns before March 2012.

    I still don't have it "tuned in" exactly horizontally or vertically.
    The instructions use a different verbage just like those dang sailors
    that can't say right side or left side.
    I would get the laser grip on mine, but hell, the want up to $270.
    It is a $30 grip, with a $10 Laser, and a $230 great Idea.

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    When in the course of human events, one is called upon to end an attack by some miscreant who just will not be stopped by lessor means. The one who does the stopping MUST know where his/her shot is going. 3 Feet or 30 feet does not matter when you just MUST do it. I have seen professionals who have hesitated to take a shot because it would endanger an innocent to do so using the stock sights on the arm that they were using. ANY and EVERY edge that one can have at there disposal in that situation is a GOOD thing. If one has a small pistol to defend with and no laser sight... They must rely solely on their ability to Acquire the target, Use proper breath control, sight alignment and insure that the back drop does not have an innocent person in the event that they miss. If on the other hand... they have a small pistol WITH a laser sight... Then the only thing that is necessary is to see the little red dot on the target and squeeze the trigger.

    Lasers don't lie... nor do they require any more than pointing to gain the advantage. If you are using your small pistol for personal defense... The less you need to do in a SHTF situation, the better chance you have of getting out of it alive. Unless you are the type to go to the range and practice every week with Point Shoot technique... Get the little red dot and MAKE SURE that it is properly "Zeroed" in for the target. If it is set for 10 to 15 yards it WILL be good at anything closer than that range. Anything farther away than that is most likely NOT going to be self defense anyway.

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    Senior Member RoadDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g1nomad View Post
    My wife won't try any other gun than hers with the Crimson Trace
    laser grip. She doesn't really use the sights as much as the laser
    I guess. She can out shoot me killing paper targets, and
    passed her CCW with it. We both have a Ruger LCR 38 Special.
    We have never owned guns before March 2012.

    I still don't have it "tuned in" exactly horizontally or vertically.
    The instructions use a different verbage just like those dang sailors
    that can't say right side or left side.
    I would get the laser grip on mine, but hell, the want up to $270.
    It is a $30 grip, with a $10 Laser, and a $230 great Idea.

    Herb
    $270.00 ... Yes? And just how much do you think it is worth to make sure that if and when you need to pull that trigger... the shot is not going to end up in an innocent person?

    The same old argument about a 50 dollar helmet for a 50 dollar head... applies here as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
    When in the course of human events, one is called upon to end an attack by some miscreant who just will not be stopped by lessor means. The one who does the stopping MUST know where his/her shot is going. 3 Feet or 30 feet does not matter when you just MUST do it. I have seen professionals who have hesitated to take a shot because it would endanger an innocent to do so using the stock sights on the arm that they were using. ANY and EVERY edge that one can have at there disposal in that situation is a GOOD thing. If one has a small pistol to defend with and no laser sight... They must rely solely on their ability to Acquire the target, Use proper breath control, sight alignment and insure that the back drop does not have an innocent person in the event that they miss. If on the other hand... they have a small pistol WITH a laser sight... Then the only thing that is necessary is to see the little red dot on the target and squeeze the trigger.

    Lasers don't lie... nor do they require any more than pointing to gain the advantage. If you are using your small pistol for personal defense... The less you need to do in a SHTF situation, the better chance you have of getting out of it alive. Unless you are the type to go to the range and practice every week with Point Shoot technique... Get the little red dot and MAKE SURE that it is properly "Zeroed" in for the target. If it is set for 10 to 15 yards it WILL be good at anything closer than that range. Anything farther away than that is most likely NOT going to be self defense anyway.

    Yep...agree...surely doesn't hurt having one (BodyGuard is one with a built in laser for 350).

    Bull

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    Default Crimson trace lasers rock...got one on my glock 27 and believe me......

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I have heard that laser sights on a hand gun are more show than go. My instructor said there is a rule of 3. Most defensive gun fights occur in less than 3 feet, 3 shots or less are fired and last about 3 seconds. I can see if your searching for an intruder in a darkened home it could give you that intimidation factor but the blinding light of a flashlight will give you more of an advantage. Anyone have any practical experience where a laser made a huge difference?
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    I can not give you any real world difference a laser can make on a pistol. But, One night this summer I noticed a dim light on my motorcycle trailer in the back yard. I grabbed my M4 and tip toed out the front and quietly aproached to a safe distance and lit the theif up with a 700 lumen tactical light on the rifle. Told him to freeze, At this time I was informed to take my G-damned light off of him I realased the paddle for the flashlight and hit the green laser and ask if that was better, His whole attitude changed when he realized he was about to be the victim. Thankfully it never turned into a deadly force situation. But a laser will avoid a gunfight under the proper circumstances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by g1nomad View Post

    I still don't have it "tuned in" exactly horizontally or vertically.
    The instructions use a different verbage just like those dang sailors
    that can't say right side or left side.

    Herb
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    Elevation is up/down
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
    When in the course of human events, one is called upon to end an attack by some miscreant who just will not be stopped by lessor means. The one who does the stopping MUST know where his/her shot is going. 3 Feet or 30 feet does not matter when you just MUST do it. I have seen professionals who have hesitated to take a shot because it would endanger an innocent to do so using the stock sights on the arm that they were using. ANY and EVERY edge that one can have at there disposal in that situation is a GOOD thing. If one has a small pistol to defend with and no laser sight... They must rely solely on their ability to Acquire the target, Use proper breath control, sight alignment and insure that the back drop does not have an innocent person in the event that they miss. If on the other hand... they have a small pistol WITH a laser sight... Then the only thing that is necessary is to see the little red dot on the target and squeeze the trigger.

    Lasers don't lie... nor do they require any more than pointing to gain the advantage. If you are using your small pistol for personal defense... The less you need to do in a SHTF situation, the better chance you have of getting out of it alive. Unless you are the type to go to the range and practice every week with Point Shoot technique... Get the little red dot and MAKE SURE that it is properly "Zeroed" in for the target. If it is set for 10 to 15 yards it WILL be good at anything closer than that range. Anything farther away than that is most likely NOT going to be self defense anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by wp120470 View Post
    I can not give you any real world difference a laser can make on a pistol. But, One night this summer I noticed a dim light on my motorcycle trailer in the back yard. I grabbed my M4 and tip toed out the front and quietly aproached to a safe distance and lit the theif up with a 700 lumen tactical light on the rifle. Told him to freeze, At this time I was informed to take my G-damned light off of him I realased the paddle for the flashlight and hit the green laser and ask if that was better, His whole attitude changed when he realized he was about to be the victim. Thankfully it never turned into a deadly force situation. But a laser will avoid a gunfight under the proper circumstances.
    I can guarantee that a thug with a knife in NOLA will run like Usain Bolt when he sees the the little red dot on his chest.
    I can also attest that the NOLA PD DO NOT GIVE A CRAP!
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    Senior Member BlueMaxim's Avatar
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    The major advantage I see to Laser sights other than what was so well articulated by RoadDawg, is that they take the place of your standard 3 dot sights which in most cases are impossible to see in the dark. Crimson Trace lasers are hard to beat. No buttons to fumble with when you don't need to. Just grip the gun and they are on. Faster acquistion than 3 dots and your attentiona and focus can stay on the target.
    We came to this conclusion thinking about a CCW response in the Colorado shooting. Who could see their standard 3 dot sights against the screen well enough to miss any innocent bystander and place two hits on the bad guy? We decided it was definately a laser scenario.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRadar View Post
    I can guarantee that a thug with a knife in NOLA will run like Usain Bolt when he sees the the little red dot on his chest.
    I can also attest that the NOLA PD DO NOT GIVE A CRAP!

    '04 1300S or at least used to be.




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    I can't speak to use of a laser to aim as I learned and have stayed in practice point shooting.

    Re' painting oneself with anykind of light in a darkened fire-zone,...I wouldn't even suggest it unless it's a million candlepower strobelite.

    Then you prolly won't even need to fire.
    Duug


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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
    $270.00 ... Yes? And just how much do you think it is worth to make sure that if and when you need to pull that trigger... the shot is not going to end up in an innocent person?
    I'd say it is worth $230. Your concern was the 4th thing to remember from our CCW class. #1 consider
    it always loaded. #2 always have the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. #3 keep your finger on the gaurd,
    not trigger until ready to fire. #4 Be aware of what is in the background, or around your target. I can
    easily see overlooking #4 in a panic situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrRadar View Post
    Azimuth is left/right
    Elevation is up/down
    One of Crimson Trace's words was windage. Sounds like farting IMO.
    If I desinged the grip, I would use left/right or up/down, as I want to
    communicate to all, not just the word lovers of the world.

    After reading all the comments, I'd say the laser option seams to be
    a smart thing.

    Herb
    Last edited by g1nomad; 10-02-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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    A lot of good input.


    What part of "shall not be infringed" dont you understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by g1nomad View Post
    I'd say it is worth $230. Your concern was the 4th thing to remember from our CCW class. #1 consider
    it always loaded. #2 always have the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. #3 keep your finger on the gaurd,
    not trigger until ready to fire. #4 Be aware of what is in the background, or around your target. I can
    easily see overlooking #4 in a panic situation.

    One of Crimson Trace's words was windage. Sounds like farting IMO.
    If I desinged the grip, I would use left/right or up/down, as I want to
    communicate to all, not just the word lovers of the world.

    After reading all the comments, I'd say the laser option seams to be
    a smart thing.
    Herb
    Now that is just funny in a WTF sort of way... Word lovers? Really? Ummmm NO.

    Left / right, up / down? Sorry but that does not work because not every person is able to orient their surroundings at the same level. If you don't believe that just get into a discussion about the left side or right side of a bike and listen to them ask "...from the front or from the back?"...

    But, anyone who has ever been trained in the proper usage and care of a firearm has usually been taught that sights are oriented by the terms "elevation" and "windage". Also they are aware that all sight adjustments are made using the rear sight to view the sight picture.

    Elevation (Mathematicians prefer Azimuth) is a term referring to the horizon. Or UP and DOWN depending on the relationship to your view of the target.

    Windage is a term referring to the lateral or side to side orientation of your view of the target.

    Somethings are better left to tradition...


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    I wouldn't waste my money on one from my experience it’s just not needed. Using one when looking for an assailant inside your house could give an advantage to your opponent if he sees the light before you see him. Flashlights cause the same problem, if you know they don’t know where you are any light is sure to give away your position. Also a light is normally held at chest height in front of the body, shoot for the light and you will most likely hit the person holding it.

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    Senior Member RoadDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbass View Post
    I wouldn't waste my money on one from my experience itís just not needed. Using one when looking for an assailant inside your house could give an advantage to your opponent if he sees the light before you see him. Flashlights cause the same problem, if you know they donít know where you are any light is sure to give away your position. Also a light is normally held at chest height in front of the body, shoot for the light and you will most likely hit the person holding it.
    That is why you do NOT light it up until you NEED it...

    THEN... light up the target and watch it sh1t it's pants...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
    do NOT light it up until you NEED it...
    light up - and watch it sh1t it's pants...

    Yea - Odd that common sense needs to be explained -
    Watching them run chitting pants live - no laser on the 870 needed that night.
    Very loud unloading in town, compared to cap gun.
    I don't recommend its use in all cases - at least the range and spread is just short enough to not have to worry down range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I have heard that laser sights on a hand gun are more show than go. My instructor said there is a rule of 3. Most defensive gun fights occur in less than 3 feet, 3 shots or less are fired and last about 3 seconds. I can see if your searching for an intruder in a darkened home it could give you that intimidation factor but the blinding light of a flashlight will give you more of an advantage. Anyone have any practical experience where a laser made a huge difference?
    Laser sights do a nice job of telegraphing your position. If you haven't yet located the intruder, they will certainly know where you are. But I agree with your instructor.


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    Senior Member RoadDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTXCRZR View Post
    Laser sights do a nice job of telegraphing your position. If you haven't yet located the intruder, they will certainly know where you are. But I agree with your instructor.

    Yes... IF you light them up and use them to "sweep"...

    But if you know what you are doing, then you won't be doing that. The laser is NOT to be used to FIND your target. It IS to be used to insure that you HIT your target...


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    I have to disagree that a laser telegraphs your position. A green laser does emit a beam that can be traced back to it's source but not a red one. The bad guy will see a red dot on the wall or ceiling but will not really know exactly where it is coming from within a considered 180 degree arc. Many times it is enough to scare him off as is the sound of a pump action shotgun! Your goal is not to shoot him but to get him out of your house so your family is out of danger. When he sees that red dot he many times thinks, huh oh, gun.....time to get out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
    Yes... IF you light them up and use them to "sweep"...

    But if you know what you are doing, then you won't be doing that. The laser is NOT to be used to FIND your target. It IS to be used to insure that you HIT your target...


    I agree with you. I was responding to this quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I have heard that laser sights on a hand gun are more show than go. My instructor said there is a rule of 3. Most defensive gun fights occur in less than 3 feet, 3 shots or less are fired and last about 3 seconds. I can see if your searching for an intruder in a darkened home it could give you that intimidation factor but the blinding light of a flashlight will give you more of an advantage. Anyone have any practical experience where a laser made a huge difference?
    You'll note I connected the two by specifically refering to the "searching for an intruder" scenario. And not the more common 3x3 scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by VTXCRZR View Post
    Laser sights do a nice job of telegraphing your position. If you haven't yet located the intruder, they will certainly know where you are. But I agree with your instructor.
    Last edited by VTXCRZR; 10-02-2012 at 07:03 PM.


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    Senior Member RoadDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTXCRZR View Post
    I agree with you. I was responding to this quote:

    I see...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMaxim View Post
    I have to disagree that a laser telegraphs your position. A green laser does emit a beam that can be traced back to it's source but not a red one. The bad guy will see a red dot on the wall or ceiling but will not really know exactly where it is coming from within a considered 180 degree arc. Many times it is enough to scare him off as is the sound of a pump action shotgun! Your goal is not to shoot him but to get him out of your house so your family is out of danger. When he sees that red dot he many times thinks, huh oh, gun.....time to get out.
    See my response to RawDawg about the specific scenario I was refering to. If someone is sweeping the room with a laser, there are be several occasions during the sweep where you will see the source of the light. You will be alerted to look for the source by the spot on the wall. The shape of the spot (circle, right oval, left oval) will give you a general indication of the direction from which the beam is comming.

    My goal would in fact be to shoot them, one less thug and no danger of them ever coming back. Once they set foot in my house they have irreversably committed themselves to a lethal engagement.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMaxim View Post
    Your goal is not to shoot him but to get him out of your house so your family is out of danger. When he sees that red dot he many times thinks, huh oh, gun.....time to get out.



    I think you are so wanting to become a victim. In your yard maybe, But if a criminal breaches the doorway of my home the only action I will intend to proceed with is justifiable homicide. Castle Doctrine protects a mans home and the right to use deadly force if that is breached. The goal is to remove the criminal from the taxpayers burden and do the world a favor and help the criminal out with his or her breathing habit. But I do respect your right to your opinion. Hopefully no one here will never have to find out the answer of what would you do in this situation. I had to make that moral decision a long time ago and it still haunts me to this day at times. But could or would I do it again, Damn Skippy.

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    Senior Member RoadDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wp120470 View Post
    I think you are so wanting to become a victim. In your yard maybe, But if a criminal breaches the doorway of my home the only action I will intend to proceed with is justifiable homicide. Castle Doctrine protects a mans home and the right to use deadly force if that is breached. The goal is to remove the criminal from the taxpayers burden and do the world a favor and help the criminal out with his or her breathing habit. But I do respect your right to your opinion. Hopefully no one here will never have to find out the answer of what would you do in this situation. I had to make that moral decision a long time ago and it still haunts me to this day at times. But could or would I do it again, Damn Skippy.
    You may want to edit this post. If you ever found yourself in the position after saying this, I would not want to be in your shoes when the prosecuting attorney read this statement at your trial for premeditated homicide.

    Last edited by RoadDawg; 10-03-2012 at 03:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
    You may want to edit this post. If you ever found yourself in the position after saying this, I would not want to be in your shoes when the prosecuting attorney read this statement at your trial for premeditated homicide.

    He lives in North Carolina. Unlike people who live in big cities, run by gun hating liberals, this state doesn't prosecute people for defending their homes. In my rural county the sheriff probably would give the person a nice dinner gift certificate for helping make his job easier.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
    You may want to edit this post. If you ever found yourself in the position after saying this, I would not want to be in your shoes when the prosecuting attorney read this statement at your trial for premeditated homicide.




    I live in Johnston County N.C. Let me give a true example of a Jurys' decision in my Hometown. About 5 years ago a man came home and found intruders (Theives)running across his back field with his belongings in their arms. The property owner proceeded to chase them down in his mid 80's old cutlass. Durring his trial the D.A. played the 911 tape for the Jury and you could hear the guy on the phone talking to the 911 operator with the theif in the background screaming, The property owner had him pinned against a fence with his car and you could hear him revving the enging every time the theif moved or tried to get away. the theif died on the way to the hospital. Jury found him Not Guilty on charges of any wrong doing. Here in the country we live by a different way of life. When you decide to break into a mans home it is your life you are taking a chance on losing. We have a Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws here. We believe in protecting ourselves and what we have worked hard for. That is the way it should be all over this Country. But to each their own. I try to respect everyones rights to their opinions.

    Sent from my 8-Track player using Morse Code.

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    Senior Member DrRadar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Rory View Post
    St. Louis sq. 4/7/12.
    2005 VTX1300C Roadburner Double Eagles ,
    Batwing, BadX double decker 1800C seat and lots of chrome. Riding DS Yokohama Avid S 205/70-15 with Dynabeads......Smooth Ridin
    ' VTXOA Inmate#37626
    2012 Victory Vision- Fits the Wife's butt just right! Plus a few others. I need to clean out

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