Made in the USA?

[lucky_1_chris_0613c]

Originally Posted by locodude

I guarantee you who doesn't win... the worker who built the washer. I never have understood how folks blame the union on the downfall of the big three automakers. fact is they built crappy vehicles for many years and folks stopped buying them, not because their non-union competition was any cheaper just building a better product. Quality sells it self and lack of it will drive away consumers no matter how cheaply it is offered. Take Harley for example for many years they built some really sorry machines, it almost took them down for good, but they have built quality products for several years now and are a strong company once again. Like I said quality sells itself.

You said it all. The other automakers sold a better product for the same price. I wonder how they could afford to do that? It's a mystery...

[RSPARKS1800]

I am proud to say i have worked union since i have been 18 years old. Unions just insure that big companies cannot make more and more money while our pay is being cut for more profits. Sorry if you all worked in a bad union and there are some and i apologize for that. I am a proud member of the United Mine Workers of America and we have a great union. Unions will not please everyone and that is not their intention, they are to protect your rights and your pay. As far as our unions bleeding the company dry the non union coal miners make 4-5 dollars more per hour than us union employees, why? To keep the union out. The company even says that. They make those guys works all sorts of crazy shifts, any hours they want up to 16, and dont care about their safety rights, and treet them like slaves instead of the hardworking men and women they are. Sounds like a great place to work for me. Oh not to mention the non union mines have the same healthcare as we do so who is bleeding the company. I know this info because i have several friends who work non union mines and this is the truth.

[locodude]

The reason why some union employees can be slackers, poor employees, and down right lazy is because it is in their agreement to allow then to do so. Key word being agreement, the union negioates a contract with a company and both agree to abide by it. if one side or the other doesn't like it then they don't have to sign it. The company risks a strike but as many of you have said earlier there are plenty of monkey's standing in line to take those jobs if a strike does occur. Workers don't want to strike either, most strike pay from the union provides are little more than pennies compared to what that striking employee would make if they were working. The point I'm trying to make is that companies AGREE to the terms and conditions under which their employees work, don't blame the employee for making the company live up to what they agreed to.

[1800 spec 3]

I only had 2 experiences with unions:

1- In the late 70s early 80s I drove a route truck delivering shop supplies all over eastern NC. My first stop on Thursday morning was the Weyerhauser Plant in New Bern. As I drove by the picket line there were always 2 or 3 there yelling things as I drove by. I never could understand why they would get so upset at me for doing my job--if I followed their wishes and not cross the line, then I lose MY job--and I am not part of their union. So who am I to please??? Them or my non union company?????????????????

2-Fast forward 5 years. My same company was bought out by a company that was 80% union. They were trying to force the union out and our benefits were much better than the union plants. We were all the time getting raises, additional holidays, not to mention super cheap and super good insurance! My pay more than doubled over a 5 year period. The union was eventually voted out in all the right to work states, and the company statrted taking stuff back. After 23 years I just decided to leave.

summary------------I don't have one. sorry

[Chicago-Spike]

Originally Posted by locodude

The reason why some union employees can be slackers, poor employees, and down right lazy is because it is in their agreement to allow then to do so. Key word being agreement, the union negioates a contract with a company and both agree to abide by it. if one side or the other doesn't like it then they don't have to sign it. The company risks a strike but as many of you have said earlier there are plenty of monkey's standing in line to take those jobs if a strike does occur. Workers don't want to strike either, most strike pay from the union provides are little more than pennies compared to what that striking employee would make if they were working. The point I'm trying to make is that companies AGREE to the terms and conditions under which their employees work, don't blame the employee for making the company live up to what they agreed to.

You'r right. The UNION negotiates a contract by FORCING most companies to SIGN said contracts that PROTECT a lazy worker from ever being fired. If the company doesn't sign or wants to change the wording what happens next??? A strike. So unions are not much more than a schoolyard bully that cries when they don't get their way and takes the ball home with them until they do get their way.
I'm not saying all union workers are lazy, I'm saying unions keep lazy workers from being fired and are a drain on companies. As for your auto makers comment, that was just a great way to prove the ANTI-union stance. The cars were poorly built, by whom? A union worker. The cars weren't designed crappy, just built that way. The companies may used crappy materials, but why? Because their expenses were too high from what? Maybe employees pay and bennies. Then they were FORCED to buy parts from fellow union shops ONLY, or there would be strikes. So, as anyone can see, the common denominator in this whole mess is...... UNION.

[Greybeard]

Originally Posted by Chicago-Spike

You'r right. The UNION negotiates a contract by FORCING most companies to SIGN said contracts that PROTECT a lazy worker from ever being fired. If the company doesn't sign or wants to change the wording what happens next??? A strike. So unions are not much more than a schoolyard bully that cries when they don't get their way and takes the ball home with them until they do get their way.

Darn Spike, you beat me to it.

[locodude]

Originally Posted by Chicago-Spike

You'r right. The UNION negotiates a contract by FORCING most companies to SIGN said contracts that PROTECT a lazy worker from ever being fired. If the company doesn't sign or wants to change the wording what happens next??? A strike. So unions are not much more than a schoolyard bully that cries when they don't get their way and takes the ball home with them until they do get their way.
I'm not saying all union workers are lazy, I'm saying unions keep lazy workers from being fired and are a drain on companies. As for your auto makers comment, that was just a great way to prove the ANTI-union stance. The cars were poorly built, by whom? A union worker. The cars weren't designed crappy, just built that way. The companies may used crappy materials, but why? Because their expenses were too high from what? Maybe employees pay and bennies. Then they were FORCED to buy parts from fellow union shops ONLY, or there would be strikes. So, as anyone can see, the common denominator in this whole mess is...... UNION.

Hate to disagree with you but those auto workers who built those cars were building cars the way they were designed and engineered by the management of that company. Ford and GM have built some pretty high quality cars for the past few years using the very same workers and that had built the crappy ones back in the 80's. I used to work for peterbilt motor company and our particular plant was not union, our sister plant in another state was. We were paid well and treated well by the company but when business slowed down and they layoffs started guess who was gone first? The non-union plant I worked for.
As far as companies being forced to do anything that's not correct either. Contracts are negioated by both sides. Happened in my industry also the railroad and the union could not come to terms on a particular line so the railroad said fine we'll just sell the line and they did. Now they wish they had it back. People may think that unions are all powerful and can boss companies around but it is still the company who signs the checks and the contracts. They hold the majority of the power.
Where I work if you screw up you get fired. I screwed up and was demoted for thirty days, if I screw up again within the next 12 months I am terminated. That's what the agreement says. I understand where you are coming from but labeling all unions as promoters of poor quality employees is equal to calling all Harley riders as@&^%holes. In some cases you are correct, and the few bad employees stand out much more than many who do a good job and care about of the quality of their work.

[cybrhick]

Originally Posted by locodude

Hate to disagree with you but those auto workers who built those cars were building cars the way they were designed and engineered by the management of that company. Ford and GM have built some pretty high quality cars for the past few years using the very same workers and that had built the crappy ones back in the 80's. I used to work for peterbilt motor company and our particular plant was not union, our sister plant in another state was. We were paid well and treated well by the company but when business slowed down and they layoffs started guess who was gone first? The non-union plant I worked for.
As far as companies being forced to do anything that's not correct either. Contracts are negioated by both sides. Happened in my industry also the railroad and the union could not come to terms on a particular line so the railroad said fine we'll just sell the line and they did. Now they wish they had it back. People may think that unions are all powerful and can boss companies around but it is still the company who signs the checks and the contracts. They hold the majority of the power.
Where I work if you screw up you get fired. I screwed up and was demoted for thirty days, if I screw up again within the next 12 months I am terminated. That's what the agreement says. I understand where you are coming from but labeling all unions as promoters of poor quality employees is equal to calling all Harley riders as@&^%holes. In some cases you are correct, and the few bad employees stand out much more than many who do a good job and care about of the quality of their work.

The company DOES NOT hold the majority of the power. If they did, why would there be a union. Fact is, if the company doesn't agree to what the union is asking for, the union strikes. Now the company's hands are completely tied. They cannot operate without workers on the floor. So they try to hire "scabs" to get work done until they come to an agreement. But the "scabs"
end up getting beaten trying to get in to work, or worse. Just a few years back UPS had a strike, and hired "scabs" to drive trucks. I remember the "scab" who was found in his UPS truck with his throat cut.

Don't want to join our union, but you want to work here? Strange how someone slashed ALL your tires. Still didn't get the message? I wonder why someone set my house on fire? Hey, maybe you should rethink joining our union.

[Greybeard]

Originally Posted by locodude

I used to work for peterbilt motor company and our particular plant was not union, our sister plant in another state was. We were paid well and treated well by the company but when business slowed down and they layoffs started guess who was gone first? The non-union plant I worked for.

This is sort of the point. Peterbuilt HAD to lay off the non-union people or the union would have shut down the whole plant.

You didn't mention which plant was more productive, made the equipment that was selling better, cost more to keep running, etc., so I'll assume you are giving the union credit for keeping the other plant open.

You say you do great work, etc., if so, why did they lay people off in the plant YOU worked in and keep the other plant open?

JUST because it was union?

In short, I guess you could thank the union for you losing your job, even if the guys in the other plant didn't work as hard as you.

[aardvark]

Originally Posted by cybrhick

The company DOES NOT hold the majority of the power. If they did, why would there be a union. Fact is, if the company doesn't agree to what the union is asking for, the union strikes. Now the company's hands are completely tied. They cannot operate without workers on the floor. So they try to hire "scabs" to get work done until they come to an agreement. But the "scabs"
end up getting beaten trying to get in to work, or worse. Just a few years back UPS had a strike, and hired "scabs" to drive trucks. I remember the "scab" who was found in his UPS truck with his throat cut.

Don't want to join our union, but you want to work here? Strange how someone slashed ALL your tires. Still didn't get the message? I wonder why someone set my house on fire? Hey, maybe you should rethink joining our union.

Thanks for reinforcing the Thug mentality of the Union worker..

[locodude]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

This is sort of the point. Peterbuilt HAD to lay off the non-union people or the union would have shut down the whole plant.

You didn't mention which plant was more productive, made the equipment that was selling better, cost more to keep running, etc., so I'll assume you are giving the union credit for keeping the other plant open.

You say you do great work, etc., if so, why did they lay people off in the plant YOU worked in and keep the other plant open?

JUST because it was union?

In short, I guess you could thank the union for you losing your job, even if the guys in the other plant didn't work as hard as you.

We both made 54 trucks per day and quality control was equal in both plants. They laid off the non-union workers because they could be replaced with temp workers when the work returned which is what they did. I'm not 100% sure but I think the assembly plant where I worked closed and moved to mexico but the sister plant is still turning out kenworths and pete's.

I guess everyone has an opinion about labor unions, I can only speak of personal experience and it has been a good one, the bnsf railroad is the strongest in the world and its workers enjoy good wages and benefits. It has been a good relationship between the two as long as I have been there, no strikes, no walkouts, and no threat of one. I sincerely hope that everyone here enjoys their job situation as much as I do be they union members or not.