Rich Running VTX 1800R

[VTXbandito]

Hi everyone.

I just joined the board and as you can see this is my first post here. I live in Victoville CA and I'm hoping that someone can maybe help me with a problem I am having with a VTX 1800R that I purchased a few months ago that only has 2600 miles on it.

It sat for at least a 1 1/2 year without being run and it was not properly prepped buy the previous owner who left the old gas in it the entire time it was sitting.

I drained the old gas out of it before I started it up but when I start it up it runs very rich and is almost impossible to keep running and it will not even begin to idle.

There is very black smoke coming out of the exhaust upon start up and when you blip the throttle in neutral, but once you get the bike up past 25 mph or so it start to run pretty good.

The bike is totally stock as far as the engine and exhaust are concerned, but when I pulled the plugs after riding it around a little they were really black and sort of wet looking which is probably due to it running very rich.

I've been looking through the service manual to try and see what might be causing this rich running problem at idle and I am wondering if the start valve on the throttle body might be stuck open and letting extra gas into the engine all the time as this is the only thing I could see that might be causing my problems.

I put some fuel injector cleaner in the gas and road the bike around for a couple of hours this last weekend but it did not help with it running rich and not wanting to idle

Well any help or advice any of you might be able to shine on my problem will be greatly appreciated.

[Chicago-Spike]

Try pulling the vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator. If fuel comes out of it, it is bad and needs to be replaced.

[dave van dyke]

I agree with Spike. I had a bad FPR and it took me 2 months to trouble shoot it. If the bike is an 2004 or older the part is only $28 from HDL, the sponsor of this site.

[VTXbandito]

Originally Posted by Chicago-Spike

Try pulling the vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator. If fuel comes out of it, it is bad and needs to be replaced.

Thanks guys.

So if the fuel pressure regulator is bad it could cause the rich condition I'm experiancing, and could a bike with only 2600 miles on it have the fuel pressure regulator go bad from just sitting for long period of time?

[tin-indian]

The FPR going bad seems to more time dependant than miles. There are guys on here with lots of miles racked up on their Xs with no FPR problems. But it seems to me that alot of the older bikes are having them go bad, regardless of miles. I'm thinking about changing the one on my 02X this winter just so I don't have to worry about it.
Running your bike with a bad FPR that is letting the bike run super rich could do harm to the rings and cylinder walls. The extra gas washes off the oil, letting the rings eat into the cylinder, scoring it.

[tnvnl]

While I tend to agree with you guys on the diagnosis, he doesn't actually state what year machine it is. Assuming that it's other than the 02-03 it could be gummed up injectors not atomizing the fuel properly. If that is that case, seafoam or techron won't fix it (before someone suggests these things) they will need to be cleaned properly.

[X-Beast Driver]

Originally Posted by tnvnl

While I tend to agree with you guys on the diagnosis, he doesn't actually state what year machine it is. Assuming that it's other than the 02-03 it could be gummed up injectors not atomizing the fuel properly. If that is that case, seafoam or techron won't fix it (before someone suggests these things) they will need to be cleaned properly.

What is the proper procedure for cleaning gummed up injectors. I don't have that problem but I'd like to know just for my own personal knowlege.

[resiurcdnal]

Does it have a fuel programmer on it? If so, I'd start by taking that out of the loop first. It could be that someone tried to richen the mixture to eliminate decel pop. It could be that the idle is too low (trying for that "Harley" sound).

[xxxrider]

Originally Posted by X-Beast Driver

What is the proper procedure for cleaning gummed up injectors. I don't have that problem but I'd like to know just for my own personal knowlege.

You just add the proper amount of either Seafoam or Techron additive to the gas in the gas tank and it cleans the injectors when you ride it.

[biker.chef]

Originally Posted by tnvnl

While I tend to agree with you guys on the diagnosis, he doesn't actually state what year machine it is.

His profile says: 2003 VTX 1800R
Hey Bandito, If you put your bike model in your sig then guys can easily
see what model you have.
BTW 03 R with < 3K on it is a sweet ride.

[tnvnl]

Originally Posted by X-Beast Driver

What is the proper procedure for cleaning gummed up injectors. I don't have that problem but I'd like to know just for my own personal knowlege.

Remove the injectors and soak the tips in carb cleaner, then spray the inlet side with the same cleaner. If you don't leave the bike setting for long periods of time this should never have to be done.

[VTXbandito]

Originally Posted by tnvnl

While I tend to agree with you guys on the diagnosis, he doesn't actually state what year machine it is. Assuming that it's other than the 02-03 it could be gummed up injectors not atomizing the fuel properly. If that is that case, seafoam or techron won't fix it (before someone suggests these things) they will need to be cleaned properly.

Why would a plugged injector pass more gas as I would think it would be the other way around or am I missing something here?

[VTXbandito]

Originally Posted by resiurcdnal

Does it have a fuel programmer on it? If so, I'd start by taking that out of the loop first. It could be that someone tried to richen the mixture to eliminate decel pop. It could be that the idle is too low (trying for that "Harley" sound).

The bike is entirely stock.

[VTXbandito]

Originally Posted by tin-indian

The FPR going bad seems to more time dependant than miles. There are guys on here with lots of miles racked up on their Xs with no FPR problems. But it seems to me that alot of the older bikes are having them go bad, regardless of miles. I'm thinking about changing the one on my 02X this winter just so I don't have to worry about it.
Running your bike with a bad FPR that is letting the bike run super rich could do harm to the rings and cylinder walls. The extra gas washes off the oil, letting the rings eat into the cylinder, scoring it.

So when the FPR goes bad does it normally cause the bike to run excessively rich? and if so is it due to the FPR passing more gas than it does when its working properly and within specs.

So what is the start valve in the throttle body as I can't seem to find out much info on it, but it appears from looking at it in the service manual that its vacuum operated and that it supplies more gas to aid in starting the bike when its cold like a fuel enrichener or choke.

[dave van dyke]

Originally Posted by VTXbandito

So when the FPR goes bad does it normally cause the bike to run excessively rich? and if so is it due to the FPR passing more gas than it does when its working properly and within specs.

Yes, it lets too much gas get into the system thru the vacuum line.

[VTXbandito]

Originally Posted by dave van dyke

Yes, it lets too much gas get into the system thru the vacuum line.

Thanks!

Seeing as how the FPR are only around $30 I think I'll go ahead ahead and replace it.

[VTXbandito]

Originally Posted by dave van dyke

I agree with Spike. I had a bad FPR and it took me 2 months to trouble shoot it. If the bike is an 2004 or older the part is only $28 from HDL, the sponsor of this site.

Can the FPR replaced without having to remove the throttle body?

[naparisi]

I've been using ChemTool 12 to clean my carbs & fuel injectors for more than 40 years. If there's any gas additive that will clean it, ChemTool will.
The stuff is so potent that if you use too much the engine will only run if you pulsate the throttle. I think I'd try about half a can for a gallon of fuel & idle it at high & low rpms. be conservative at the high rpms. You don't want to blow anything. If it's just varnish from evaporated gas it might be a quick, easy, cheap fix. Comes in a red, white & blue can, not spray.

The Best,

Nick

[dave van dyke]

Originally Posted by VTXbandito

Can the FPR replaced without having to remove the throttle body?

Yes. You only have to remove the seat and prop up the back of the tank.
See Bare's handy VTX tools on how to make a tank prop.
http://www.bareasschoppers.com/

[VTXbandito]

Originally Posted by dave van dyke

Yes. You only have to remove the seat and prop up the back of the tank.
See Bare's handy VTX tools on how to make a tank prop.
http://www.bareasschoppers.com/

Thanks.

Yes I already found out that I only need to take the steps you mentioned to remove the FPR.

I went ahead and ordered a new FPR and o-ring from my local delear today and I should have on Tuesday.

Thanks everyone for all the good input and I'll post up after I've installed it and if it takes care of the problem.

[tnvnl]

Originally Posted by VTXbandito

Why would a plugged injector pass more gas as I would think it would be the other way around or am I missing something here?

It doesn't pass more gas, the fuel comes out in large drops rather than being atomized, and will cause it to act as though it's rich. Large droplets don't have sufficiant surface area to burn properly.

[tnvnl]

My bad on it being an 03, I didn't look at his profile.

[rayjohn02]

Originally Posted by VTXbandito

So when the FPR goes bad does it normally cause the bike to run excessively rich? and if so is it due to the FPR passing more gas than it does when its working properly and within specs.

So what is the start valve in the throttle body as I can't seem to find out much info on it, but it appears from looking at it in the service manual that its vacuum operated and that it supplies more gas to aid in starting the bike when its cold like a fuel enrichener or choke.

The start valve is controlled by coolant temperature and only allows more air to bypass the throttle valves until warm enough to idle properly.
A rich running condition can also be caused by a kink or blockage in the fuel return line from the fuel pressure regulator back to the tank. This can cause excessive pressure to the injectors.

[VTXbandito]

Originally Posted by tnvnl

It doesn't pass more gas, the fuel comes out in large drops rather than being atomized, and will cause it to act as though it's rich. Large droplets don't have sufficiant surface area to burn properly.

Now that you explained it this way it makes sense.

I'm going to double cheak all of the vacuum hoses to make sure that they have a good connection and are not kinked when I lift the tank to replace the FPR.

[VTXbandito]

I installed the new FPR and the bike imediately fired right up and settled into a nice smooth idle.

So a big thanks goes out to all of you who steered me to the problem with my bike and I really appreciate all the great info.

[Chicago-Spike]

Glad you got her fixed

[mark_1bx]

Originally Posted by VTXbandito

I installed the new FPR and the bike imediately fired right up and settled into a nice smooth idle.

So a big thanks goes out to all of you who steered me to the problem with my bike and I really appreciate all the great info.

Now change your oil.....historically bikes that are running rich from a bad FPR have fuel/oil dilution.

[xxxrider]

What exactly is an FPR???

[tnvnl]

Originally Posted by xxxrider

What exactly is an FPR???

Fuel pressure regulator.

[VTXbandito]

Originally Posted by mark_1bx

Now change your oil.....historically bikes that are running rich from a bad FPR have fuel/oil dilution.

Yup, did that yesterday also.