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Power draw

2K views 14 replies 9 participants last post by  chuck_VTX F 
#1 ·
Hey folks,

Happy chill ...... I could probably tear a fighter jet apart and put it back together again right up to the point where I would have to deal with the electrical and electronic gear. I think it has too do with a math phobia that I have been dealing with all my life.
So, electrical draw on my 03 1800 has me frozen in the headlights of this project. I need to supply heated gear to both "She Who Must Be Obeyed" and myself, plus GPS, and a couple of power outlets for things like phones. I thought about swapping over to all LED in order to help. (Is there an LED headlight?)
I need help determining just how much draw I can ask the bike to sustain and information on what equipment will draw the least while providing the same approximate heat as a Thermonuclear reaction for the pillion.
If there is a post here that deals with this I have missed it and would be happy for the direction,

Thanks,
dhl
 
#4 ·
Hey folks,

Happy chill ...... I could probably tear a fighter jet apart and put it back together again right up to the point where I would have to deal with the electrical and electronic gear. I think it has too do with a math phobia that I have been dealing with all my life.
So, electrical draw on my 03 1800 has me frozen in the headlights of this project. I need to supply heated gear to both "She Who Must Be Obeyed" and myself, plus GPS, and a couple of power outlets for things like phones. I thought about swapping over to all LED in order to help. (Is there an LED headlight?)
I need help determining just how much draw I can ask the bike to sustain and information on what equipment will draw the least while providing the same approximate heat as a Thermonuclear reaction for the pillion.
If there is a post here that deals with this I have missed it and would be happy for the direction,

Thanks,
dhl
This past spring, over on the VTX Café, member "Phreakish" did an extensive write-up w/ pix, of converting to an automotive style LED headlight. Quite a few of us went with this Cree setup, with most of us having good things to say about it. You'll need a buddy to split the costs (around $80-90). It'll never burn out, has a 6000K white light, making you more noticeable from the front without blinding oncoming vehicles. Not much diff. between hi/ lo cutoff, as the reflector in our buckets wasn't designed for the LED. I'm sorry I don't have the link.
 
#5 ·
Just to give you an idea on the draw of heated gear, since I have a little:
Jacket Liner = ~30-35 watts (each)
pant liner = ~30-35 watts (each)
Gloves = ~10 watts (each)
Grip warmers = ~10 watts
This alone, for both of you, is going to run you at 170 watts, which is getting close to the halfway point from the 400 watts stock.
Add on heated seat and boot insoles, and you'll probably be going over, drawing too much.
Changing to LEDs all around, which is possible, might make all that doable, though.
 
#6 ·
A question for Spike or any of the other long time VTXer's; Has anyone looked into having more robust stator's made? Maybe contacting this guy and inquiring. http://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/


Edit: I just emailed them asking.
Yes, it was looked at and and because the stator sits inside the engine case, there's no room for bigger units. Then the thought was to rewind them to fit more copper but was found that it wouldn't add much more so not worth it
 
#7 ·
Yes, it was looked at and and because the stator sits inside the engine case, there's no room for bigger units. Then the thought was to rewind them to fit more copper but was found that it wouldn't add much more so not worth it
Ha, pretty much the reply I got from Rick's...

"Thank you for the inquiry! I’m very sorry but there is not enough room in the stack of the VTX1800 stator to wind it for higher output. L I’m going to check with Rick to see if we can make a rec-reg using Mosfet technology for that bike… if so, you may get more usable power since it would be a cooler running rec-reg than the OE design. I’ll let you know what he says.

I guess I'm not sure how a MOSFET Rect/Reg would help other than making a few more watt's available to use rather than waste in heat.
 
#8 ·
The X's are energy challenged, 1800 output is 400W, by comparison my 1200LT is 800W and my son's Triumph 1200 is 950W. So you really need to put on a voltage monitor to know when you are in a deficit draining the battery, otherwise you'll find the bike dead on a cold day somewhere away from home.

Even with modifications I'm doubtful you could run 2 pieces of heated clothing at the same time, at least at a high output level. You'll get some efficiency by keeping them turned down at low level and you could alternate their use. And that would be with 2 liners or jackets, not 2 full sets, jacket, pants, socks, gloves.

Output on the 1300 and 1800 are very similar, 1800 additionally has the fuel pump. The link in post 2 above has a breakdown of wattage use at about 280W or 20A. Bike has a 30A main fuse, so not to exceed the design limits of the charging circuit you have about 10A or 140W to play with before you exceed what was ever expected of the bikes stator. The link above is right at what I actually measured on my 1300. I built a load tester, I can gradually increase the load while monitoring output amps and voltage (amps x voltage = watts). What I found on my stock electrical 1300 was that at around 120W of load my voltage was getting in the 13.2 - 13.4 volt range. That would be the limit I would feel comfortable, like to stay above 13.5V.


An upgraded stator would require more winding wraps for a higher output and then maybe even thicker wiring for the extra current, no room.

I have the Gerbing Microwire jacket liner, Gerbing rates it at 77W but that is an optimistic marketing number, lower wattage ratings sell more product. Maybe it is at an “average” setting. My actual measurement is 90W at full on but you don’t run at max for more than a little while, just too hot. I actually keep it quite low once I feel good.FirstGear markets theirs at 90W.
 
#9 ·
I just got this reply back from Rick's ... Seems like allot of cash for a lousy 40 watts, but at least there is an alternative Rect/Reg if/when mine burns out.

So, if you are interested, we can make the rec-reg with Mosfet technology which should give you approximately 40 more watts out of the stator. The cost of the rec-reg would be $150.00. Please let me know if this is something you might be interested in.J




 
#10 ·
The X's are energy challenged, 1800 output is 400W, by comparison my 1200LT is 800W and my son's Triumph 1200 is 950W. So you really need to put on a voltage monitor to know when you are in a deficit draining the battery, otherwise you'll find the bike dead on a cold day somewhere away from home.

Even with modifications I'm doubtful you could run 2 pieces of heated clothing at the same time, at least at a high output level. You'll get some efficiency by keeping them turned down at low level and you could alternate their use. And that would be with 2 liners or jackets, not 2 full sets, jacket, pants, socks, gloves.

Output on the 1300 and 1800 are very similar, 1800 additionally has the fuel pump. The link in post 2 above has a breakdown of wattage use at about 280W or 20A. Bike has a 30A main fuse, so not to exceed the design limits of the charging circuit you have about 10A or 140W to play with before you exceed what was ever expected of the bikes stator. The link above is right at what I actually measured on my 1300. I built a load tester, I can gradually increase the load while monitoring output amps and voltage (amps x voltage = watts). What I found on my stock electrical 1300 was that at around 120W of load my voltage was getting in the 13.2 - 13.4 volt range. That would be the limit I would feel comfortable, like to stay above 13.5V.


An upgraded stator would require more winding wraps for a higher output and then maybe even thicker wiring for the extra current, no room.

I have the Gerbing Microwire jacket liner, Gerbing rates it at 77W but that is an optimistic marketing number, lower wattage ratings sell more product. Maybe it is at an “average” setting. My actual measurement is 90W at full on but you don’t run at max for more than a little while, just too hot. I actually keep it quite low once I feel good.FirstGear markets theirs at 90W.
This was the best single explanation of the VTX elec. system that I actually understood. Kudo's, Sir.
 
#11 ·
This was the best single explanation of the VTX elec. system that I actually understood. Kudo's, Sir.
just love people with communication skills.. I know this stuff.. just can not get it from my brain to my fingers....

Well Done Sir endure.
 
#13 ·
There's been the need arise occasionally for more power from a bike's alternator even as far back as Triumph/BSA with the old Lucas stator. That solution was never really a solution either. Adding another winding only gave enough for a brighter headlamp but just barely. Four cylinder Goldwings.. Honda either didn't know there would be such a demand for more power or they just chose not to address it. Some guys found a way to mount a small automotive alternator over the crankcase and drive it off the crankshaft pulley. It worked but that's a pretty extreme measure. The problem never was answered until the 1500 and 1800 and even they have their limits. It's a dropped line and there's not much reason for the factory to invest money to solve the problem. The aftermarket guys can only do so much.
 
#15 ·
I have always wondered about the folks replacing their incandescent lamps with LED units, only to add parallel resistors to increase the load. Sorta defeats the purpose in part.
that is why to replace the flasher.... with a digital controller ... no load resistors...
but the LED headlight with a Fan... a better design would not need a power using Fan....

and no manufacturer ...ever considered a 130 amp alternator was needed for a motorcycle..

up till the early 80's cars Max alternator was 63 amps... FOR A CAR with air conditioning ... come on....


<<< Triumph/BSA/Noton with the old Lucas stator>>> some of these New out of the box could vary as much as 50 watts output...
Yes I worked on these WAY back then.....1969
 
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