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judge for yourself....Victory

3K views 45 replies 23 participants last post by  Billyned 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Having seen that set of vids sometime ago...

You have to know a few things before you can accept what the guy says. For instance, (parphrasing) "My papa told me that with old cars when the oil pressure goes to zero, turn the engine off or you're screwed... and according to the gauge, at idle Harleys go as low as 8psi which is next to zero... Victorys maintain oil pressure of 50psi at idle and 70psi when in motion... no wonder you have to get the top end of a Harley rebuilt every 20,000 miles".

Do you think modern Harleys really offer insufficient pressure at idle by design and that Harleys require top-end rebuilds like the guy implies? If so, you've consumed his kool-aid. Remember, this more a sales ad than an objective head-to-head comparison by an uninterested party.

On the whole, though, the guy - even with his bias against Harley and twisting of tales to make a point - makes a good case for Victory; the best argument being that Victory, being unencumbered by legacy engine designs was able to totally redesign the engine. Of course, he doesn't go into Vics problematic 1999ish years, but the point is well taken - they were able to start fresh on the engine and that pretty much says it all for me and seems reason enough to seriously consider them. Plus the cop bikes are totally cool looking.

That said, Vic decided not to go with liquid-cooled engines, though oil-coolers were standard on many models. So even though they could and did start from scratch (presumably), they opted for air-cooled engines - and belt drive over shaft. Interesting...
 
#4 ·
Having seen that set of vids sometime ago...

You have to know a few things before you can accept what the guy says. For instance, (parphrasing) "My papa told me that with old cars when the oil pressure goes to zero, turn the engine off or you're screwed... and according to the gauge, at idle Harleys go as low as 8psi which is next to zero... Victorys maintain oil pressure of 50psi at idle and 70psi when in motion... no wonder you have to get the top end of a Harley rebuilt every 20,000 miles".

Do you think modern Harleys really offer insufficient pressure at idle by design and that Harleys require top-end rebuilds like the guy implies? If so, you've consumed his kool-aid. Remember, this more a sales ad than an objective head-to-head comparison by an uninterested party.

On the whole, though, the guy - even with his bias against Harley and twisting of tales to make a point - makes a good case for Victory; the best argument being that Victory, being unencumbered by legacy engine designs was able to totally redesign the engine. Of course, he doesn't go into Vics problematic 1999ish years, but the point is well taken - they were able to start fresh on the engine and that pretty much says it all for me and seems reason enough to seriously consider them. Plus the cop bikes are totally cool looking.

That said, Vic decided not to go with liquid-cooled engines, though oil-coolers were standard on many models. So even though they could and did start from scratch (presumably), they opted for air-cooled engines - and belt drive over shaft. Interesting...
Why the negative post?:banghead: And I don't drink kool-aid.Being a 30 year mechanics with hundreds of engine builds under my belt I look at the design not some azzhats opinion......note the title" judge for yourself" don't ASSume.
 
#5 ·
I just get red X's with that link?



you can't post something (even when it's true) that hd wannabes don't like.

but

cam tensioners and more:


the oil pressure, oil pump and more:



The GOOFY harley connecting rod vs real rods...

MY GOD!





hd 103- 78hp
vic 106- 97 hp





the balance of the vision, ugly but you can lay it over and pick it up yourself.

 
#6 ·
Why the negative post?:banghead: And I don't drink kool-aid.Being a 30 year mechanics with hundreds of engine builds under my belt I look at the design not some azzhats opinion......note the title" judge for yourself" don't ASSume.
Hmmmm...I surely did not read his post as negative...and he is entitled to his opinion as you are...whether you have 30 years under your belt or not.;)

I think it is a well built motor...but do wonder as well why no water cooled.

Bull
 
#7 ·
Hmmmm...I surely did not read his post as negative...and he is entitled to his opinion as you are...whether you have 30 years under your belt or not.;)

I think it is a well built motor...but do wonder as well why no water cooled.

Bull
I didn't offer my opinion.."judge for yourself.....Victory" is the thread title.Air cooler engines is for cutting grass.Now thats my opinion :thumbup:
 
#13 ·
Pretty informative and obviously a promo piece but they could have got someone who didn't come across as such a prick. He was talking down HD like a lot of HD riders talk down everything that isn't an HD.

Well since I have gotten my Vic I have noticed that allot on the Vic boards.. They do talk crap all the time about any other brand.. To me that kinda childesh, but oh well.. I like just about any bike out there and am happy with what I have.
 
#15 ·
There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with the HD style of connecting rods (capless). Pressed cranks, and rollerized rod bearings have there own set of pros and cons. Is a one piece forged crank stronger? Sure. Is that added strenght always necessary? No. It has worked well for many, many years in engines where output was relatively low. A lot of folks probably don't know that even some of the earlier SJMs (I4s) had pressed cranks. And, they had signifigantly higher crankshaft horsepower than most HDs. True, when those bike were hot rodded for drag racing, the cranks were welded and conventional two piece rods were used. Elmer Trett (RIP) was one of the first to push the early I4 DOHCs to that point. Point is, every manufacturer has their own design philosphy. Victory, by nature of modern corporate competition has to find something to distinguish themselves from their biggest percieved rival. Do your research, if it's important to you learn all you can about component design. Then, vote with your dollars and go out there and ride the living dog yee out of the thing. Freak Freely.
 
#17 ·
I just want to say after owning my Vision for 21,000 miles, multiple long trips, never a problem, rides like a dream I hate it more and more. Can't believe I paid cash for it and have to look at it every time I go into the garage and ride it on long trips in total comfort no matter what the weather. I'm going to leave the key in it with the garage open hoping somebody will come steal it.
 
#19 ·
PM me your address please. :p

I just want to say after owning my Vision for 21,000 miles, multiple long trips, never a problem, rides like a dream I hate it more and more. Can't believe I paid cash for it and have to look at it every time I go into the garage and ride it on long trips in total comfort no matter what the weather. I'm going to leave the key in it with the garage open hoping somebody will come steal it.
 
#20 ·
Them dang Harley haters !!!!!!! I personally don't hate Harleys ( Great looks and sound ) it's just the **** that you got to wear to own one !!!!!!!!:dontknow:
 
#21 ·
Why the negative post?:banghead: And I don't drink kool-aid.Being a 30 year mechanics with hundreds of engine builds under my belt I look at the design not some azzhats opinion......note the title" judge for yourself" don't ASSume.
Negative post? OK, I get it; my apologies... The use of "you" and "your" is the bigger collective, not you personally. After I wrote it, I remember thinking I hope he doesn't think I'm talking about him, which I wasn't. The English language needs a construct other than "one" (one knows this; for one's money, etc) for the collective/unknown person. I Guess "user" would work, but only in limited circumstances; "one" just sounds too academic. In any case, I probably should have worded it differently and put a disclaimer in there. I'll try to remember that for the future.
 
#22 ·
#23 ·
There you go again!! Getting people all stirred up and chit. :yikes:

Negative post? OK, I get it; my apologies... The use of "you" and "your" is the bigger collective, not you personally. After I wrote it, I remember thinking I hope he doesn't think I'm talking about him, which I wasn't. The English language needs a construct other than "one" (one know this; for one's money, etc) for the collective/unknown person. I Guess "user" would work, but only in limited circumstances; "one" just sounds too academic. In any case, I probably should have worded it differently and put a disclaimer in there. I'll try to remember that for the future.
 
#24 ·
Well, one sign that you are number one is when everyone compares themselves to you. I have nothing agaginst HD, just a handful of the snobs that own them. Say what you want they can go the bike store and buy a plethora of stuff that bolts on - no fiddling, can't do that with my Honda. My local HD dealership is a much more organized place to go than my local Honda dealer but then I've not had anything worked on in either place. My guess is that the Highschool kid working on bikes at the Honda dealer is less apt to perform major repairs successfully on my bike than the well dressed 40-50 yearolds working at the HD dealership. And I'm sure more of us would wear Honda apparel if there was some to buy.

I watched the first video and the Vic guy dishes on HD a couple times for running the same design for many years, then he talks about the Vic starter and goes into if it an't broke don't fix it......... I've been around manufacturing for some time and there's always arguments for/against design, I question if the facts support this guys claims. When I was a tech rep we always had to back up problems with facts to be compiled, # of units produces, # of failures, hours in service, etc, etc, etc. My guess is that they conveniently wind new and old outcomes into the discussion to support thier view. I'm not defending HD just been around the block once before. I'm also not knocking Vic as the guy confirms my beliefs that HD is the same old bike it has been forever and never gets updated, but that's an opinion, not a fact.

Interesting video.....Ride what you bought. I bought my Honda due to price point and reliability. I came real close to buying a Vulcan Nomad. Not sure what the choice would have been without price being a consideration.
 
#26 ·
with the right salesman and a good pitch even eskimos wearing white fur coats can be conviced that they need a ketchup popsicle. Just too many HD's on the road (mine included) that have had zero problems for me to believe they that are as bad as some would have you believe.
 
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