Screwed by a screw (bolt) - HELP

[surfshrink]

Ready to change the front tire. Loosening up the pinch bolts, no problem until the outside one on the left side. The hex head shredded. I cannot get this bolt out. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

[skuleman]

If you have a Harbor Freight, buy one of these. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95530

Drill a pilot hole into the center of the bolt and then use the remover and electric drill to get it out.

I'd soak it in penetrating oil first.

Also, heating it with a hair dryer, then quenching with water a few times can break any bonding of the bolt or rust.

Take your time. Its at least a two beer project.

[surfshrink]

Skuleman, I do have a Harbor Freight nearby. I'll try that. The tire is due here tomorrow. It always works this way. The first three bolts are easy, the last one impossible.

[prs]

The two bolts on either clamp are under considerable "spring" tension when all is assembled because the clamp is pushing back uopn them. So here you come and remove one or the two bolts............... think about what just happened to the force applied to that last bolt. The spring tension upon it just increased aby almost double. Result a stuk bolt.

When you attempt to remove the stuck bolt, if it still has some head on it to allow it to be clamping the clamp. then first replace its mate and set it to specified torque. You will then find it to be much easier to remove the remains of that stuck bolt. The screw-out or easy out will work or maybe even a small sharp cold chisel could tap it counter closkwise. BUT, as soon as it budges a bit, also loosen its mate a tiny bit too unless you want it stuck.

When I install these bolts I put them in hand tight first. Set my torque wrench to the desired value and alternate between the two turning each one only one sixth of a turn at a time until the torque value is reached. In removing I turn each one flat outward at a time and alternate until I've got them out a couple of flats' worth. That is a good procedure for head bolts, case bolts, and and lugs nuts too.

prs

[Big Jon]

You also get a galvanic reaction between the two dis=similar metals. The bolts will have a white, powdery film on them. Use of a little ant-seize compound will prevent this, but it will also allow over-torqueing of the bolts, so be careful.

[TennX]

on the anti sieze and I always give things like this a short whack with my impact driver.may not help but I sure do feel better.

[surfshrink]

Thanks for all the help. I tried to use the Harbor Freight tool, but I could only get the drill bits to make a shiny spot before snapping. I used one designed for heavy metal and it broke in half. I just got back from Home Depot with an Alden proGrabit. Maybe it will work better. I'll let you know. (and yes, I'll put the other bolt in first).

[surfshrink]

Okay, I'm about to give up. I've tried the suggestions and the stupid bolt just won't move. I've totally destroyed the head. What kind of drill bit won't snap? I know I'm doing something wrong, but I just don't know what it is. Is there a trick to drilling a hole in the bolt?

[2002VTX]

Well, you could take a Dremel and cut a slot in the allen head, then pound in a screwdriver and use that. Have you soaked the bolt in penetrating liquid like PB Blaster yet?

[surfshrink]

Thanks. I'll try the PB stuff. Do they carry that at Home Depot or Lowes?

[wrenchturner]

A hair dryer won't get the aluminum nearly hot enough. You need a torch. You'll need to heat the area around the bolt up and let cool at least two or three times. DON'T quench that hot aluminum with water or anything else. The only thing that'll do is warp it.
A small propane torch from Lowe's or Depot will be sufficient and when heating, don't let the flame touch the fork. Just use the heat off the end of the flame to heat your aluminum. Any discoloration happens, stop immediately. Let it cool till ya can get your hand on it comfortably and do it again.
We do this often and sometimes it will loosen the corrosion that happens between the disimilar metals. Try not heating the bolt itself, juast the aluminum around it. Aluminum expands at a much faster rate than steel and that expansion it what you're looking to get. That's what will hopefully loosen that corrosion from the threads on the bolt.
After it's cooled for the final time, soak it well with PB blaster or the like and let it work for a half hour or so. Sometimes tapping on the head of the bolt will help penetration also.

Don't bother with the screwdriver suggestion because it's obviously a hardened bolt and even if you do manage to get a slot ground in it the screwdriver's just gonna twist up on ya and you'll make the bolt head even more worthless. They don't use tool steel to make screwbrivers any more. They use cheap @ss chinese s^&t steel.

The installation of the other bolts is a good idea too. See what the biggest easy out you can get on it is and use that one. Tap it in and put slow, steady pressure on it. When we're trying to drill a hole for such an occasion we use cobalt bits. They are expensive but harder than HSS and about the only thing that will make a dent in hardened steel. That is unless you have access to a milling machine. Then chuck it up and mill that bolt out.

I cannot promise this suggestion will work for you, as it is just merely that- a suggestion, but it's my $.02 and it's worked for me in the past. Good luck

[enduro]

Here's a couple things to try, not sure if they will make sense without pictures.

Take a small narrow sharp chisel, if you don't have one, use a grinder to make one out of a sacrificial screwdriver. I've used a sharpened spike for this too.

With the chisel make a straight down deep groove on "one" side on the top of the socket head screw.

Using the same chisel in the groove, now angle the chisel so when struckwith a metal hammer it will put rotational pressure CCW on the head. A couple whacks and you might be walking the screw around in a circle. The problem here will be to avoid gouging the recessed aluminum. The instantaneous downward whack with the rotational force I think will move it especially since it is in a compliant surface (a clamp with a gap).

Something else to try:
Using wood to protect the aluminum, put on a C clamp and squeeze the end of the aluminum as much as you can to relieve some pressure off the screw before trying to turn it, mine has about a 1/8" gap.

OK, I just grabbed a page out of my instruction manual that will show the chisel technique. It won't be exactly the same because you don't have the same access. The "chisel" method is the bottom 2 photos, you won't be using the side but rather the top of the screw.

[BlueMaxim]

Very interesting class professors.....can't wait to see how this lesson ends.

[RedWings]

Take it to a Professional Mechanic before you make it worse.

[surfshrink]

Headed there tomorrow. (This was the advice from my wife yesterday before I started.)

[big hanno]

Originally Posted by surfshrink

Headed there tomorrow. (This was the advice from my wife yesterday before I started.)

Mine always says "why can't you do it?, it looks easy enough"

[2002VTX]

Took me about a week to drill/tap/pull out a broken exhaust header bolt out of my rear jug block on the 1800c. Major PITA. Biggest problem was when the hardened steel drill bit broke in place, and I had to keep on up grading the hardness of my bits just to get it out. Still wince when I have to remove the rear exhaust.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, a left handed drill bit. I keep a small set around for pulling out broken bolts and screws.

[surfshrink]

Wow! I thought I posted this earlier, but guess it didn't take. I took the bike to a mechanic friend from church this morning. He took an air hammer-screwdriver thingy (sorry for the technical term) and had the bolt out in about 20 seconds. If I had done that in the beginning, there would have been no need for this thread. Yay!!!! The new tire goes on tonight, which I'm sure, will be the start of a whole new thread. (I've taken the wheel off before, but this will be the first time removing and installing a tire onto the rim).

[SailorKane]

In the future, when trying to get out corroded or tight screws or bolts, think about an impact wrench. They have manual ones that you hit with a hammer and it applies torque to the screw without stripping the head.

[Greybeard]

yeah, but I still like the air hammer-screwdriver thingy

[Flying Hawaiian]

Here is my nightmare and all the good advice I got:
http://www.vtxcafe.com/showthread.php?t=31027

What finally worked was using a dremel to make a cross and sticking another bolt in the middle and twisting that one. Mind you I had totally meshed up my pinch bolt and even snapped off an ez out.

[surfshrink]

I appreciate all the good advice and encouragement. When I need help, I always look to this forum. Unfortunately, sometimes I get to feeling like a mechanic. It's events like these that remind me I am not a mechanic.

[RedWings]

Originally Posted by big hanno

Mine always says "why can't you do it?, it looks easy enough"

A good Mechanic makes it look easy.

Originally Posted by surfshrink

... I took the bike to a mechanic friend from church this morning. He took an air hammer-screwdriver thingy (sorry for the technical term) and had the bolt out in about 20 seconds. If I had done that in the beginning, there would have been no need for this thread...

Glad it worked out for you. Perhaps you'll treat your friend to a good meal.

Originally Posted by surfshrink

I appreciate all the good advice and encouragement. When I need help, I always look to this forum. Unfortunately, sometimes I get to feeling like a mechanic. It's events like these that remind me I am not a mechanic.

An unappreciated field of endeavor.


Peace...

[donut]

Glad things are getting better. Hope everything goes back together OK.

[surfshrink]

Started changing the tire at 7pm. Used the 2x4's to try to break the bead. 2x4's are now much shorter. I finally wrangled the tires off at around 8:30pm. It's now 11pm and I'm still struggling to get the last half of the bead into the rim without pinching the tube. My back hurts, my knees ache, and I believe my family has gone to bed without me. I think I'm going to do the same. Hope to finish tomorrow. (Didn't feel like starting my new thread with this). I have a deep appreciation for all the knowledgeable people on this forum and thank you all very much for the savings you have allowed those like me. I wish I had some mechanical expertise to offer, but unfortunately, I just get to take advantage of all the expert advice and tips here. Maybe I can add some comedy once and a while in return.

[Madness_MC]

Originally Posted by surfshrink

Started changing the tire at 7pm. Used the 2x4's to try to break the bead. 2x4's are now much shorter. I finally wrangled the tires off at around 8:30pm. It's now 11pm and I'm still struggling to get the last half of the bead into the rim without pinching the tube. My back hurts, my knees ache, and I believe my family has gone to bed without me. I think I'm going to do the same. Hope to finish tomorrow. (Didn't feel like starting my new thread with this). I have a deep appreciation for all the knowledgeable people on this forum and thank you all very much for the savings you have allowed those like me. I wish I had some mechanical expertise to offer, but unfortunately, I just get to take advantage of all the expert advice and tips here. Maybe I can add some comedy once and a while in return.

It sounds like you had fun with this chapter on "Changing your own Tires" found in the "Motorcycle Maintenance for Dummies" manuals. Sorry, that was no slur against you intended by my saying that. My guess is that you initially used a standard "L-type" allen wrench that may have fit the cap screw's hex and that there was a little dirt at the bottom to keep you from getting a real positive contact between the wrench and the cap screw's hex. However, I won't rule out the possibility that you may have used a 1/4" allen instead of a 6mm that caused the hex to misshapen and end up giving you your difficulties.

You had a lot of "how NOT to do this correctly" items on your checklist. Now add those to your "Lessons Learned" list. Go out and purchase the correct 6mm (8mm and 10mm, while you're at it) 3/8"-drive allen wrench from Sears or your local ACE Hdwe, Home Depot, Lowes or auto parts store. Also, purchase a hand-held 3/8" impact driver kit that SailorKane mentioned. Anyone who has worked on motorcycles for any length of time must have this as a necessary part of their basic tool kit (no need to carry it on your bike, however).

The factory recommends that you torque them to specs ... 16lb.-ft. Alternatively, the old Germanic torque spec of "goot-n-tite" works well for these bolts. Use a 6"-handled, 3/8"-drive ratchet wrench, your newly purchased 6mm allen socket wrench and tighten the bolts comfortably.

You could also use a 3/8"-drive INCH POUND torque wrench that reads from 50 in.-lbs. up to 300 in.-lbs. and convert the readings to ft.-lbs. That low-scale torque wrench will allow you a maximum of about 25 lb-ft of torque. For the 16 lb.-ft. you'd need to set it at 192 in.-lbs.

You should also invest in a 3/8"-drive torque wrench with a range 10 to 75 ft.-lbs. Finally, a 1/2"-drive torque wrench with a range of 50-250 ft.-lbs. should also be purchaded. While torque wrenches work from one end of their scale to teh other, they are most accurate in the middle-2/3rds of that scale. So realistically, you will need all three clicker-type torque wrenches with the specified ranges to properly work on your VTX.

Some of the suggestions offered were good, while I thought that others would work when used correctly under certain circumstances and some were flat-out scary for your circumstances. You just have to go with your tool availability and your comfort level when working on anything mechanical. As the saying saying from Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry character stated ... "A man's got to know his limitations !!!"

[1badrt]

Originally Posted by surfshrink

Headed there tomorrow. (This was the advice from my wife yesterday before I started.)

LOL...somehow my wife always seems to have the right idea too; I guess it's just nature for the man to go about it his way anyway.

[surfshrink]

Joe, thanks for the tool listing. My initial mistake happened the first time I took the front wheel off. I had never used a torque wrench in my life. I bought one at Harbor Freight to tighten the axle bolt on my rear wheel. I wasn't aware that it couldn't be used for the 16lb torque necessary. Obviously, I way overtightened it. I will be adding additional tools to my arsenal. By the way, I got the tire on, but apparently pinched the tube in several places. This morning, took the wheel and the tire to the bike shop (Super Cycle) here in town. Had it ready in less than an hour. I'm still glad I tried, though. Like you and Clint said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

[donut]

Who-oh!!!!!!!!!!!

[Madness_MC]

Originally Posted by surfshrink

Joe, thanks for the tool listing. My initial mistake happened the first time I took the front wheel off. I had never used a torque wrench in my life. I bought one at Harbor Freight to tighten the axle bolt on my rear wheel. I wasn't aware that it couldn't be used for the 16lb torque necessary. Obviously, I way overtightened it. I will be adding additional tools to my arsenal. By the way, I got the tire on, but apparently pinched the tube in several places. This morning, took the wheel and the tire to the bike shop (Super Cycle) here in town. Had it ready in less than an hour. I'm still glad I tried, though. Like you and Clint said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

Glad that you finally got everything to work as needed. Just starting out getting familiarized with your X and what it takes tolls and skills-wise to do the various maintenance jobs is a continuous learning experience.

Tube-type tires are a bit of an annoyance, even when you do more of them than you care to do. For most small or skinny dirt bike tires, I pull the wheel and take it over to the local Yamaha shop and let them change the tire off and onto the wheel.

Most street bike tires don't pose too much of a problem for me except DarkSide installs on the S-model spoked wheel. Then I really have to take my time. I usually recommend loosing the tube, sealing the wheel spokes and converting it to a tubeless arrangement for DarkSide installs.