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-   -   How would you do this? (A puzzle for ya) (https://www.vtxoa.com/forums/5-general-mc-message-board/391906-how-would-you-do-puzzle-ya.html)

House O' Pain 09-19-2016 02:12 PM

How would you do this? (A puzzle for ya)
 
I solved a problem and am pretty pleased with how I did it. I'm now curious how others would have solved the same problem.


Here's the problem:


You have motorcycle pipes that you're going to install a 'lollipop' baffle in. A lollipop in this case is a screw with a loop end that gives straight pipes some resistance in air flow to give it some required backpressure and improve sound (see image).

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...-T89wAgIlu-MqA


The challenge is that the lollipop has to be mounted 6" from the end of a set of pipes (1, 7/8" inner diam.) that have two bends in them, one of them a bend in the end 3" from the tip (meaning your lollipop has to go another 3" past the bend). I posted a photo of the pipes to help with this 'puzzle' (below).


After drilling the 3/8" hole in the right spot on the inside of the pipe, the challenge is to get the lollipop down the pipe to the drill hole, and then it has to be righted up so the bottom of the bolt comes through the drilled hole and THEN you have to mount the nut onto the 3/8" tiny bit of bolt that sticks out of your hole without the bolt being pushed back into the pipe. NEXT, you have to be able to turn/tighten the nut until it's tight enough to keep it in place for the life of the pipe, without the lollipop spinning around, and so that it orientates so the lollipop 'face' (not the edge) is toward the airflow after tightening hard enough to keep the bolt in place for the life of the pipes.


I'm very curious how you guys would do this. REMEMBER, the pipes are curved in two places and the lollipop has to be mounted between the bends. How do you orientate the lollypop so the bolt comes through the almost exact size hole in the side of the pipe. How to you keep it from falling out when you try to mount the nut onto the tiny stub that comes through the pipe? How do you keep the end inside the pipe from spinning when you tighten the nut? How do you ensure the orientation is correct (lollipop faces the right way inside the pipe) inside the pipe when you can't see it looking down the pipe, due to the bends in the pipe?




:popcorn:


https://www.vtxoa.com/forums/picture....pictureid=7799


Lollipop correct orientation in pipe to provide backflow pressure
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/attach...p-1-large-.jpg

ervin260 09-19-2016 02:44 PM

Before starting the install, I'd ask myself a couple questions. How big that lollipop is and how far it will be from the exhaust valves. Without proper calculations, wouldn't even start the work. Random size lollipop 6" (why 6") from the end of pipe seems just a shot in the dark and most likely won't do any good, other than a different exhaust note.

Harkon 09-19-2016 02:52 PM

I gotta agree with ervin260. Front and rear cylinders have a different length so at the very least the one for the front cylinder should go back much further than 6". Any, yeah, why 6"?

TurnOne2000 09-19-2016 04:43 PM

I once fished a cable through a bicycle frame using a Shop-Vac and kite string. Vac at one hole and fed in kite string at the other.
If you can use string or fish tape to go end-to-hole you might pull the bolt through the exit hole.
You could cut a slot on the bolt for a screwdriver. When you cut the slot align the slot with the eye so you can judge the rotation of the eye inside the pipe. Use the screwdriver to clock the eye while you tighten the nut.
I'd consider making a different type of baffle while I was at it.

House O' Pain 09-19-2016 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harkon (Post 4088002)
I gotta agree with ervin260. Front and rear cylinders have a different length so at the very least the one for the front cylinder should go back much further than 6". Any, yeah, why 6"?


All the advice I read on installing a lollipop says to install it at the rearmost of the pipes, and a premier supplier of the monster pro lollipop baffle, Big City Thunder (https://www.bigcitythunder.com/produ...les-part-2003/) recommends 6" from the end of the pipes. This tech site recommended 1" from the end; http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/exhaust.htm
but I went with the Big City Thunder advice, as they are selling a quality product with many good reviews. The best I could gather as to why mount these at the ends had to do with the power wave anti-reversion that is created in the pipe and that having them further down helps reduce reversion.


Hope this answers your questions, but more to the point, enables you to move beyond it and solve the 'puzzle'. :wink2:

House O' Pain 09-19-2016 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnOne2000 (Post 4088298)
I once fished a cable through a bicycle frame using a Shop-Vac and kite string. Vac at one hole and fed in kite string at the other.
If you can use string or fish tape to go end-to-hole you might pull the bolt through the exit hole.
You could cut a slot on the bolt for a screwdriver. When you cut the slot align the slot with the eye so you can judge the rotation of the eye inside the pipe. Use the screwdriver to clock the eye while you tighten the nut.
I'd consider making a different type of baffle while I was at it.




:firstplace:You almost nailed what I did! :congrats:


This answers how I got the 'lollipop' down the pipes and past the bend, and pulled through the hole. I also did as you suggested, in that I cut an orientation slot in the bottom of the bolt. How about how I was able to secure the lollipop in place so it didn't rotate as I fastened the nut tight?

jammerwalker 09-19-2016 05:38 PM

I might think about making some sort of magnetic disk on the end of a shaft with a bend in it (like a threaded rod) to get past the first bend in the pipe, and the lolipop would be held to it with the magnetic disk so you could be sure it was straight in the pipe. Another alternative, though, would be to cut off the last bend in the pipe, so you could install the lolipop first, and then weld the pipe back together. I might also think about cutting a slot in the end of the eye-bolt (even with the eye itself) so you could "adjust" the lolipop (and know where it would be facing by the slot), if you needed or wanted to change it later.

nate6966 09-19-2016 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnOne2000 (Post 4088298)
I once fished a cable through a bicycle frame using a Shop-Vac and kite string. Vac at one hole and fed in kite string at the other.
If you can use string or fish tape to go end-to-hole you might pull the bolt through the exit hole.
You could cut a slot on the bolt for a screwdriver. When you cut the slot align the slot with the eye so you can judge the rotation of the eye inside the pipe. Use the screwdriver to clock the eye while you tighten the nut.
I'd consider making a different type of baffle while I was at it.

This is precisely what I was envisioning that I would try first. I'd use that slot on the end of the eye bolt to not only align the lollipop, but also to hold it while tightening the nut. Final torque would be the challenge. I'd have to say trying a lock nut or potentially having enough thread to tack weld a nut on the end that I could cut off after torquing.

TurnOne2000 09-19-2016 09:46 PM

The screwdriver slot was my best guess at ant-rotation. I give up! (That's the beer talking)
Did you notice an improvement in ride-ability?
Does it sound better?

House O' Pain 09-19-2016 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammerwalker (Post 4088410)
I might think about making some sort of magnetic disk on the end of a shaft with a bend in it (like a threaded rod) to get past the first bend in the pipe, and the lolipop would be held to it with the magnetic disk so you could be sure it was straight in the pipe.


The magnet idea would allow you to get the bolt down past the pipe bend, but then you'd have to be able to orient the bolt precisely so the screw end could drop down into the drilled hole and then you'd have to be able to get your nut on the tip of the bolt so you could pull the magnet off the bolt. I can't imagine any kind of flexible wire that would work to go past the pipe bend and yet allow you to somehow lower the bolt into the screw hole as precisely as you would need to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammerwalker (Post 4088410)
Another alternative, though, would be to cut off the last bend in the pipe, so you could install the lolipop first, and then weld the pipe back together. I might also think about cutting a slot in the end of the eye-bolt (even with the eye itself) so you could "adjust" the lolipop (and know where it would be facing by the slot), if you needed or wanted to change it later.


I don't own any welding equipment, but even if I did I wouldn't want to ruin the pristine look of the pipe end with a weld seam. It's a good solution if there wasn't any other way, but there was. :grin2:




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