Harley pulls the plug on the LiveWire - Page 8 - VTXOA
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post #71 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-21-2019, 09:33 PM
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Wow! I didn't know there were so many accountants on this forum. Now I know when tax season comes around I'm going to hit up one of you folks with all this knowledge😉
Not an accountant, that's my wife. I do run a business though, and have done for quite some time. I believe it really important opinion not be stated as fact as such can be grossly misleading. If one uses critical thinking in decision making, it is my opinion facts are generally more important than opinion.
(see what I did there?).


BTW, my wife doesn't do Ontario taxes ... sorry brother.


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post #72 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-21-2019, 10:05 PM
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Here's an update on LiveWire


https://www.hdforums.com/articles/ha...re-production/


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post #73 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-21-2019, 10:37 PM
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So, they halted an entire production because ONE guy had a charging issue?

Makes sense, considering that ONE equaled 50% of total sales.
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post #74 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 03:06 AM
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Awww, come on guys. Play nice or I will scoop up everyone's toys and put them in the shed for a week. This has turned from a discussion into an argument. We are all getting the wind in our faces and THAT is what is important. Save the venom for the cage drivers.
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post #75 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Donnie Downer View Post
So, they halted an entire production because ONE guy had a charging issue?

Makes sense, considering that ONE equaled 50% of total sales.
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Thanks for the update. Amazing, one bike caused all this negative fallout of news on the LiveWire. I wonder now after this mess how the LiveWire future sales will be affected.
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post #76 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Donnie Downer View Post
So, they halted an entire production because ONE guy had a charging issue?

Makes sense, considering that ONE equaled 50% of total sales.
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Originally Posted by Harkon View Post
Thanks for the update. Amazing, one bike caused all this negative fallout of news on the LiveWire. I wonder now after this mess how the LiveWire future sales will be affected.
It probably wont have any effect. Nobody was going to buy them anyways.

Video of LifelessWire issue:

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=CH3RD_1571685536

Last edited by Donnie Downer; 10-22-2019 at 08:05 AM.
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post #77 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 12:16 PM
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You can assume what you want. It is assumption, though. Doesn't matter if you care about overhead or not, you aren't running the business. Honda's costs likely are lower, that's what they manufacture bikes in Asia now. Your understanding of how business is done, especially internationally is rather shallow and doesn't take nearly enough into account.



The 60 year old technology is an old and dead argument. Because it isn't water cooled? Please. Because it uses pushrods? Really? There is far more tech in my 2012 Road Glide than in any VTX ever, and counts only the fuel management, ignition and brakes. Have you owned both? Recently? You assume much. Not reliable? I honestly have had fewer issues with my Harley than I did with my VTX. As in I haven't had an issue yet. I loved my Honda and wouldn't hesitate to take it on the road anytime. I have the same confidence in my Harley. Of course I do take good care of it. Regular maintenance and so forth, just like my Honda got.



It is certainly a wonderful thing, our free market. You are free to purchase what you want, seeing whatever value in it that you wish. I would never call out anyone for doing so. Misinformation is what I'm calling out here. They are wonderful things ... opinions, and the freedom to voice them as fact.

This looks like you are arguing that hd should be proud of their margins.

And they should. They are higher and healthier than Honda. Tht was never the point of the discussion.

The point was that the person who pays that premium is the HD rider. Apparently that group of people find the utility of the bike worth the premium.

I think the antiquitated engine design is enough for me to pass. No way I would pay a premium for inferior design. For you itís not an antique and itís worth the premium. I donít care either way and that is not the point of the discussion for me.

It doesnít change the fact that HD is overpriced compared to the competition. And it also doesnít change the fact that HD will continue to struggle so long as people like myself find it to be overpriced.
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post #78 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 12:20 PM
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Not an accountant, that's my wife. I do run a business though, and have done for quite some time. I believe it really important opinion not be stated as fact as such can be grossly misleading. If one uses critical thinking in decision making, it is my opinion facts are generally more important than opinion.
(see what I did there?).


BTW, my wife doesn't do Ontario taxes ... sorry brother.
Weird considering you haven quoted a single fact to support the case HD isnít overpriced.

The fact is that HD is over priced. The opinion is if it is worth it.

Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light - Dylan Thomas
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke
If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them. - Dalai Lama
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post #79 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 12:47 PM
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Weird considering you haven quoted a single fact to support the case HD isnít overpriced.

The fact is that HD is over priced. The opinion is if it is worth it.

It must be worth it to some folks, they're still out there making and selling them after 118 years......
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post #80 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 06:39 PM
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It must be worth it to some folks, they're still out there making and selling them after 118 years......
Thatís the beauty of the free market.

You like it? Buy it. I find HD to be pretty bikes for sure. I love looking at them.

The issue for HD is that their market is shrinking. Boomers are dying off. And gen x is not interested in HD like the boomers. The millennials are not attracted at all.

What should they do? They wonít keep the margins or the market share if they canít figure out a way to broaden their appeal.

Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light - Dylan Thomas
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke
If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them. - Dalai Lama
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