Indian Challenger New Model Release for 2020 - Page 4 - VTXOA
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post #31 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 06:41 PM
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So push rod valves are not fro the 30's? Air cooled motors are not from the 30's? It seems that was the last time both existed at the same time as state of the art technology.

The fact that HD still uses it among others doesn't magically make it less dated technology. And that is exactly the point I think you are missing. I am uninterested in outdated technology on a bike. Even carburetors are not really my thing - fuel injection is a superior and more reliable technology. I couldn't care less about HD - I care about buying something that is worth what I am paying for it. And I wont pay a premium for something that is inferior IMO. It doesn't matter who makes it. The reason I skipped Victory was because of that very issue - their motors, while technically better than some air cooled motors, were still not good enough.


I suggest if you don't like my approach to judging technology there is an ignore feature. You might feel better if you used it.
You clearly don't have a grasp of the technology involved. It's all good though, I don't care if you like it or not. Digging on people who do was the point. Seems that was missed as well.


No sweat though, I was only trying to keep it civil. Your choice.


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post #32 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 06:48 PM
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I can assure you I am not. I have spent plenty of time here since 2002 and the motorcycle threads used to be a LOT worse. This is pretty tame.
Not so fast... join date clearly says 2004... how you come up with 2002???


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post #33 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 06:52 PM
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You clearly don't have a grasp of the technology involved. It's all good though, I don't care if you like it or not. Digging on people who do was the point. Seems that was missed as well.


No sweat though, I was only trying to keep it civil. Your choice.
Calling me an "HD Hater" might be civil in canada, but where I come from that is extremely rude and inappropriate. Perhaps they don't teach manners in Canada?

If you want to debate technology in motor design that is fine with me. I don't see how one can support push rod valves and air cooled motors as "advanced technology" or somehow superior (or even equal to) liquid cooled motors with overhead valves. It really doesn't matter if yamaha or even BMW makes it. hell, even the oil cooled motors are not worth the investment IMHO (this was one of the tricks Victory and BMW tried).

This is a useless debate though - I don't respond to people who are pro nostalgia motors in general because I am not going to change their mind. They can post up their love of all things antiquated and its cool with me. I wont have someone bully me into not speaking my mind because they don't like it though. Still, if you want to have it then I am open to discussing horse power, longevity and overall cost of maintenance or however you think you can present the air cooled push rod motor as technically equivalent to a a liquid cooled overhead valve motor.

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post #34 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 06:53 PM
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Not so fast... join date clearly says 2004... how you come up with 2002???
They redid the site in 03-04. The original site was completely revamped and we lost most of it. We had to rejoin and re-establish ourselves. If you were around back then you would know that.

Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light - Dylan Thomas
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post #35 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mowoc View Post
Calling me an "HD Hater" might be civil in canada, but where I come from that is extremely rude and inappropriate. Perhaps they don't teach manners in Canada?

If you want to debate technology in motor design that is fine with me. I don't see how one can support push rod valves and air cooled motors as "advanced technology" or somehow superior (or even equal to) liquid cooled motors with overhead valves. It really doesn't matter if yamaha or even BMW makes it. hell, even the oil cooled motors are not worth the investment IMHO (this was one of the tricks Victory and BMW tried).

This is a useless debate though - I don't respond to people who are pro nostalgia motors in general because I am not going to change their mind. They can post up their love of all things antiquated and its cool with me. I wont have someone bully me into not speaking my mind because they don't like it though. Still, if you want to have it then I am open to discussing horse power, longevity and overall cost of maintenance or however you think you can present the air cooled push rod motor as technically equivalent to a a liquid cooled overhead valve motor.
Well, if it's your mind you've been speaking ... then carry on. It's not a debate about motor technology. It's not even a debate. It's about digging on people for liking something you don't. I've said it many times, you don't have to like it, just leave others to their own instead of stating opinion as fact.


If you felt bullied, well for that I am sorry. I think if someone was trying to bully anyone it was you, but as I disagree, I never saw it as such to me personally.


Like what you like, hate what you hate, no matter to me. Continue to fling insults at those that like what you hate and hate what you like. Your choice, again no matter to me. I was just wanting to keep it civil.


Calling you what you present yourself as can't be rude, it's honest. If you felt insulted, well then again, I'm sorry for that. It was never intended as rude, only as descriptive. I'm not sure how someone who makes every attempt to impart anything derogatory on one particular brand, can feel being called a hater is rude. If your honesty is not rude, why is mine?


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post #36 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 07:07 PM
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They redid the site in 03-04. The original site was completely revamped and we lost most of it. We had to rejoin and re-establish ourselves. If you were around back then you would know that.
iow, if i knew i would have known...


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post #37 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 07:21 PM
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iow, if i knew i would have known...
Ah yes - the sarcasm can be lost when typed.

I actually don't see too many of the old timers left here. At one time (in 06-10) this place was JUMPING and there was a lot of people who crossed the line and got banned.

All those warnings about personal attacks came from somewhere.....

Too bad though. I admit it was fun to be out here then. Some of the exchanges were AWESOME. stuff would keep me laughing all day long. I admit I miss that sometimes. The Honda VS Harley board used by one of the most entertaining sites on the internet IMHO. a bunch of people arguing about nothing for hours with such conviction - it was great!
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post #38 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 07:25 PM
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Well, if it's your mind you've been speaking ... then carry on. It's not a debate about motor technology. It's not even a debate. It's about digging on people for liking something you don't. I've said it many times, you don't have to like it, just leave others to their own instead of stating opinion as fact.


If you felt bullied, well for that I am sorry. I think if someone was trying to bully anyone it was you, but as I disagree, I never saw it as such to me personally.


Like what you like, hate what you hate, no matter to me. Continue to fling insults at those that like what you hate and hate what you like. Your choice, again no matter to me. I was just wanting to keep it civil.


Calling you what you present yourself as can't be rude, it's honest. If you felt insulted, well then again, I'm sorry for that. It was never intended as rude, only as descriptive. I'm not sure how someone who makes every attempt to impart anything derogatory on one particular brand, can feel being called a hater is rude. If your honesty is not rude, why is mine?


I admire your notion of keeping it civil. I would hate to see what an uncivil exchange with you would look like.


I guess I am curious at this point - if I state my opinion that air cooled motors are inferior do I need to ask someone for permission first? Maybe run it by someone here to make sure I won't offend those that ride air cooled bikes?

EDIT:

Quote:
Calling you what you present yourself as can't be rude, it's honest.
I guess they don't teach manners in canada. Good to know.

Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light - Dylan Thomas
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke
If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them. - Dalai Lama
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post #39 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 07:56 PM
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I'm a long time fan of Indian motorcycles, probably/mostly because I love the look of the old-school fenders, but recently I was greatly impressed with the 111 engine and was pleased to see an American made bike icon come back to life.

Next Indian came out with the new Scout line bikes and it became apparent Indian was taking on the competition. Now, Indian is offering a dual sport bike and this newest Challenger lineup shows that Indian isn't afraid to 'challenge' all other markets.

As for the Challenger itself, it has no appeal to me since I got over my desire to own a big bagger years ago after years of riding a full-dressed Goldwing (with trunk). I think it was smart do do away with the big fenders on this one and there are a lot of impressive elements. I am curious to see that monster engine in other models that come along that aren't outfitted for touring.


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post #40 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mowoc View Post
I admire your notion of keeping it civil. I would hate to see what an uncivil exchange with you would look like.


I guess I am curious at this point - if I state my opinion that air cooled motors are inferior do I need to ask someone for permission first? Maybe run it by someone here to make sure I won't offend those that ride air cooled bikes?

EDIT:



I guess they don't teach manners in canada. Good to know.
I guess if you think this was in some way not civil, the I'll just step back. I don't think I was the one being uncivil, but if I was, yet once again I will apologize. BTW, that is the last one of those you'll get in this so you can choose to accept the apology in the manner it is intended, or you can ignore it and continue to be offended. It is offered with good intent.

Your crack about overhead valves was a good indicator that you were not speaking about facts but opinions. Harley hasn't had a flathead engine since the knucklhead came out in 1936, and yes it had overhead valves. I do not intend to be abrupt, or rude in this, only to show that your opinion can be wrong.

You can certainly voice your opinion on any tech you wish. Speaking ill of others was the problem, even if it is your opinion. Either way, it remains unclear to me where my manners were in any way worse than yours, as you had set the tone, but I suppose it's all about perspective.

Either way, I've said my piece. Try to understand, or don't and continue to insult people. Your choice. I, frankly, no longer care to continue as this has become pointless.


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Last edited by Harkon; 11-02-2019 at 09:10 PM.
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