Another Fuel Pump Not Priming Issue - VTXOA
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2014, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Another Fuel Pump Not Priming Issue

So my bike has been out of commission for a while due to build and since then a lot of things have been disassembled and reassembled. Tank was completely bone dry after tank seam being removed and painted. I put in fresh gas yesterday of 93 Octane because that's what makes it run better.... just kidding. I filled it with 87. Turned key and hit starter and it starts to turn but doesn't start. I realized that I didn't hear the Fuel Pump prime at all. I will try and get as detailed as possible here to explain what I have done so far. I did start trouble shooting this and read about 20 different threads last night.

My bike is an 2003 1800R with the internal fuel pump. I have no fuel management system e.g. PC3. When I turn key, Neutral light comes on but no FI light (not even momentarily). Headlight comes on and brake and signals work.

1. Fuel Pump does not prime
2. Kill Switch is verified ON throughout all this.
3. Bike is in Neutral (kickstand down). When I first tried to start it it was on ground, but now I have it back on PepsX stand, because it was easier to start messing with the tank while bike was level.
4. Took speedo off and raised tank to check if fuel pump wire was connected on right underside of tank. The male/female adapter with 2 brown wires and a green. Unplugged and plugged back in until I heard click. Nothing.
5. Checked 3 fuse housing that hold the 30 AMP fuses under left side cover. Boy everyone is right, those are in a convenient place said no one ever. All good.
6. Checked fuses under right side cover that contain the 10/20 AMP fuses. All good.
7. Unplugged fuel pump relay under right side cover. Unplugged starter relay next to it and swapped relays to see if maybe bad fuel pump relay. Nothing.
8. Made a jump wire to the Black/White and Brown wires in Fuel Pump Relay. Turned on key and still did not prime.
9. Ordered multimeter from Amazon which will be here Tuesday.

This bike has been disassembled since everything was painted including all control housings, headlight, bars wired internally. I wish I had a multimeter available today to start testing, but right now trying to troubleshoot anything that I can get away with not having that tool yet.

Any thoughts and help is appreciated.

[HR][/HR]2003 VTX 1800 R - Ground Fix, Pair Valve Removal (Desmog), Accutronix "Night Series" FC & Grips, 12 inch CP Choppah Series TBars, Arnott Air Ride, Spiegler SS Brake Brake & Clutch Lines, Barnett Throttle Cables, MetricBagger Bags
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2014, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhudak View Post
So my bike has been out of commission for a while due to build and since then a lot of things have been disassembled and reassembled. Tank was completely bone dry after tank seam being removed and painted. I put in fresh gas yesterday of 93 Octane because that's what makes it run better.... just kidding. I filled it with 87. Turned key and hit starter and it starts to turn but doesn't start. I realized that I didn't hear the Fuel Pump prime at all. I will try and get as detailed as possible here to explain what I have done so far. I did start trouble shooting this and read about 20 different threads last night.

My bike is an 2003 1800R with the internal fuel pump. I have no fuel management system e.g. PC3. When I turn key, Neutral light comes on but no FI light (not even momentarily). Headlight comes on and brake and signals work.

1. Fuel Pump does not prime
2. Kill Switch is verified ON throughout all this.
3. Bike is in Neutral (kickstand down). When I first tried to start it it was on ground, but now I have it back on PepsX stand, because it was easier to start messing with the tank while bike was level.
4. Took speedo off and raised tank to check if fuel pump wire was connected on right underside of tank. The male/female adapter with 2 brown wires and a green. Unplugged and plugged back in until I heard click. Nothing.
5. Checked 3 fuse housing that hold the 30 AMP fuses under left side cover. Boy everyone is right, those are in a convenient place said no one ever. All good.
6. Checked fuses under right side cover that contain the 10/20 AMP fuses. All good.
7. Unplugged fuel pump relay under right side cover. Unplugged starter relay next to it and swapped relays to see if maybe bad fuel pump relay. Nothing.
8. Made a jump wire to the Black/White and Brown wires in Fuel Pump Relay. Turned on key and still did not prime.
9. Ordered multimeter from Amazon which will be here Tuesday.

This bike has been disassembled since everything was painted including all control housings, headlight, bars wired internally. I wish I had a multimeter available today to start testing, but right now trying to troubleshoot anything that I can get away with not having that tool yet.

Any thoughts and help is appreciated.
When you jumped the relay, what did you use as your power source? Are you sure the source had power? Go directly to the battery to be sure. Did the bike run after wiring the bars? If so you'd think it would just be a wire that's disconnected some were. Check the headlight bucket for loose or disconnected wire. Open your starter switch and check too. Im sure the 1800 gurus will chime in

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2014, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE: 1

Took off the headlight and looked in the bucket and everything appears to be good. I also just jumped the Fuel Pump directly from the battery to the brown and green and it primed, so that tells me the fuel pump is good still.

[HR][/HR]2003 VTX 1800 R - Ground Fix, Pair Valve Removal (Desmog), Accutronix "Night Series" FC & Grips, 12 inch CP Choppah Series TBars, Arnott Air Ride, Spiegler SS Brake Brake & Clutch Lines, Barnett Throttle Cables, MetricBagger Bags
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2014, 06:59 PM
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That's the feed test I was waiting for - direct power.

May just have to back track from there on manual's view of circuit diagram to see who got left out.
The ECM in the end times the pumps event during prime.

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2014, 07:40 PM
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when my fuel pump would not prime I was directed to the connector under the left side cover by the 30 amp fused. I took it apart and cleaned it , put it back together and the fuel pump came to life .

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2014, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philscbx View Post
That's the feed test I was waiting for - direct power.

May just have to back track from there on manual's view of circuit diagram to see who got left out.
The ECM in the end times the pumps event during prime.
Yes sounds like I will have to start tracing things. I prefer to work back in order now that I proved the fuel pump good instead of hopping around like I have been doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARD View Post
when my fuel pump would not prime I was directed to the connector under the left side cover by the 30 amp fused. I took it apart and cleaned it , put it back together and the fuel pump came to life .
Hard, are you referring to the three fuses themselves or another connector near those fuses? I took the 30A fuses out and they were not blown, but do have to admit, the prongs were a bit filthy. For the cheap cost I may buy new ones tomorrow and throw some new ones in.

Just so we are current, fuel pump does not prime on own, does with direct source. Starter still works and it turns over just doesn't fire.

[HR][/HR]2003 VTX 1800 R - Ground Fix, Pair Valve Removal (Desmog), Accutronix "Night Series" FC & Grips, 12 inch CP Choppah Series TBars, Arnott Air Ride, Spiegler SS Brake Brake & Clutch Lines, Barnett Throttle Cables, MetricBagger Bags
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2014, 10:28 PM
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Check for voltage beginning here:
30amp FI fuse, Red/White wire through a 2pin connector near the starter relay to the Engine Stop Relay.

When IGN turmed on, Kill/Run switch in RUN position and Bank Angle Sensor happy the Engine Stop Relay will
operate and put +12v on the Black/White wire which feeds everything related to FI: Ignition, fuel pump, ECM.

HARD has a 2002, that is the only year that has problem(so far) with the 2pin connector burning up.
http://tech.bareasschoppers.com/tech...d-main-wiring/

A basic diagram
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/...e-switches.png

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2014, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans&Feet View Post
Check for voltage beginning here:
30amp FI fuse, Red/White wire through a 2pin connector near the starter relay to the Engine Stop Relay.

When IGN turmed on, Kill/Run switch in RUN position and Bank Angle Sensor happy the Engine Stop Relay will
operate and put +12v on the Black/White wire which feeds everything related to FI: Ignition, fuel pump, ECM.

HARD has a 2002, that is the only year that has problem(so far) with the 2pin connector burning up.
http://tech.bareasschoppers.com/tech...d-main-wiring/

A basic diagram
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/...e-switches.png

Thanks Hans. I was waiting for you to show up LOL. I have seen you very active amongst the threads I have read. Most people either have blown up fuses or some sort of PC3 interference. I have no fuel management so there goes that one.

I checked the 30A fuses twice now. No signs of being blown, though two prongs looked a little dirty. I tried switching the FI fuse with the spare just in case with no luck. I am going to buy 3 new 30A fuses tomorrow just in case.

I found the diagram you just posted (yes I have been scouring the interwebz) and will use that as my guide so thanks again for posting. I did also find Hard's post and just came in from checking that 2 pin connector to see if it was burnt up. Mine was clean as a whistle.

I get my multimeter in Tuesday from Amazon so will start working my way around testing then. As for right now, I have taken this thing as far as I can without one. I also have my head wrapped around most of the layout except for this bank angle sensor. I read the manual, but still am not comfortable at what I am looking for or at.

Thanks for getting involved.

[HR][/HR]2003 VTX 1800 R - Ground Fix, Pair Valve Removal (Desmog), Accutronix "Night Series" FC & Grips, 12 inch CP Choppah Series TBars, Arnott Air Ride, Spiegler SS Brake Brake & Clutch Lines, Barnett Throttle Cables, MetricBagger Bags
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 06:12 AM
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I was referring to the connector near the fuses on the left side. Hans has cleared that up. He knows his way around the electronics better then anyone. Sorry I can not be of more help.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 08:09 AM
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Bank Angle Sensor(BAS) is a safety device that provides the "Negative" trigger to the ESR(Engine Stop Relay). If the VTX gets too far horizontal, it removes the ground and the ESR releases killing the+12v to the FI system. (Possibly 45 from vertical, also removed from trikes because higher G forces may trip it)

The positive trigger for the ESR is the RUN/STOP switch.

If you put a "Ground" on the Red/Orange wire, the BAS is bypassed. If you turn on the IGN, RUN switch ON,
the ESR should operate.

IF it does NOT operate then the +12v from the RUN/Stop switch has to be checked.
You swapped the relays so that tends to eliminate them.

Just a step at a time.
http://tech.bareasschoppers.com/wp-c..._schematic.jpg

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