Gas - why does it go bad? - VTXOA
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Gas - why does it go bad?

CONTAINERS. I store gas in two different containers. I have a two gallon plastic gas container used for snow blower, lawn mower and very rarely for the VTX. I also have a aluminum 750ML metal fuel bottle for the X only.

GAS ADDITIVE. I do add STA-BIL to the X and lawn mower before winter storage, and the snow blower after winter. I have not thought to add STA-BIL to the storage cans. My mechanic doesn't believe in STA-BIL and similar products.

VENTING. The plastic can does not have a vent and during the summer pressure builds and I loosen the cap on the spout. The aluminum fuel bottle does not have a vent. The X gas tank has a vent.

PROBLEM. The snow blower ran terrible this winter, and a mechanic found the carb was really gunked up. I have a friend with the identical blower and he didn't run his for at least one year or longer, and his runs fine. He uses Sea Foam.

QUESTIONS. (1) Do I need to change the routine for the X to prevent fuel-related problems? (2) Does venting the plastic container make gas go bad sooner? (3) If venting is a problem then wouldn't the gas in the X tank go bad too? (4) The aluminum container has no vent, is this gas probably bad too?

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 03:55 PM
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First plastic... is NOT a sealed container.. it does Vent even with its vent sealed.. plastic is porous.. but very slowly.. similar to tires..

air can force its way out, along with gas vapors..

I have 3) 5 gallon plastic gas cans.. I rotate them. in usage Sta-bil ( I use ) but it is only good for 1 year . NOT mixed with gas.

I never allow any gas to go 6 months.. all gas cans have tags and shows when gas was placed inside them.
6 month old gas goes into Wife's car..
I then go to gas station and refill cans and add Sta-bil.... and tag updated.

lawn tractor
lawn mower
generator
chain saw
weed eater
and gas for when repairing others lawn equipment.

FYI.. have your Man replace the fuel hoses.. they maybe going bad as well.. a few years is a lot for cheap production hoses. and putting crap into carburetor



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Last edited by chuck_VTX F; 12-18-2016 at 03:59 PM.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeW View Post
CONTAINERS. I store gas in two different containers. I have a two gallon plastic gas container used for snow blower, lawn mower and very rarely for the VTX. I also have a aluminum 750ML metal fuel bottle for the X only.

GAS ADDITIVE. I do add STA-BIL to the X and lawn mower before winter storage, and the snow blower after winter. I have not thought to add STA-BIL to the storage cans. My mechanic doesn't believe in STA-BIL and similar products.

VENTING. The plastic can does not have a vent and during the summer pressure builds and I loosen the cap on the spout. The aluminum fuel bottle does not have a vent. The X gas tank has a vent.

PROBLEM. The snow blower ran terrible this winter, and a mechanic found the carb was really gunked up. I have a friend with the identical blower and he didn't run his for at least one year or longer, and his runs fine. He uses Sea Foam.

QUESTIONS. (1) Do I need to change the routine for the X to prevent fuel-related problems? (2) Does venting the plastic container make gas go bad sooner? (3) If venting is a problem then wouldn't the gas in the X tank go bad too? (4) The aluminum container has no vent, is this gas probably bad too?
You've answered your own question.

Sta-bil will provide stabilzation of fuel, but not the cleaning ability of seafoam.

I use Sea Foam, I do not use sta-bil. Never had an issue with 'bad gas' or varnished carbs. My bike sits the better part of 5months thru the cold winter months, no issue with tanked fuel. Gas cans sit for max of 5 or 6 months before they are used up.

YMMV.
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Last edited by VTX1300cnME; 12-18-2016 at 04:40 PM.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 05:03 PM
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 06:09 PM
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the biggest issue we now face is not the gasoline itself its actually the lack there of. todays "fuel" is mostly low grade petroleum, with lots of additives. Ethanol is an additive to "cut" the fuel, much like similac is used for cutting cocaine. All the refineries are doing is cutting the crappy quality fuel with other semi decent burning liquids and meeting a R.O.N. factor, or octane #.
Have you looked at fresh fuel in a clear jar? Its green/brownish and has a vile ammonia smell to it, to the touch it is oily and leaves a residue. Not many years ago it was clear/pink with a strong smell and it would evaporate rather quickly.
The quality has gone down but not the pricing in the last 30 years.
I worked in the marine/Marina industry for most of my life years as a technician There were always warnings of "oxygenated" and "ethanol" fuels.....they have been playing/adding with these mixtures since the early 80s, so its nothing new.
Stabil (which is mostly ethanol) was good until about 2006 when the ethanol was introduced largely and exclusively into all gasoline. The marina I worked for was forced to remove our "old fiberglass" tanks and install new ones to support the "new" fuel coming....its either that or don't pump gas anymore. Anyway, the ethanol was causing all kinds of major issues, blowing up new and old engines clogging injectors, mushing rubber needle tips and collapsing fuel lines etc. but that's for a different thread.
The lifespan of fuel has been depleted, making its octane hold just long enough to get from the refineries to your gas tank. Its not meant to be left in storage anymore in a gas can, mower, motorcycle, boat etc.
The issue is that ethanol absorbs moisture from the atmosphere, so vented tanks end up with stale fuel (varnish) and water (that will turn to rust) over a season of sitting. Non vented tanks just end up with varnish.
Seafoam is good but also not the endall answer to crappy fuel. It like any other fuel additive is just that.... an additive. Kind of what started this whole mess in the first place. (Remember the oil companies cutting the fuel with the ethanol additive?)
Any fuel stabilizer is meant to keep fresh fuel, fresher a little longer, not rejuvenate old fuel. That's impossible.
Here is my best advice I can give, and this is from personal experience on my own and many of my customers boat and generator systems...From the little 2.5h.p. 2 stroke kicker to the Yamaha v8 350h.p. 4 stroke outboards, including all the inboard motors that are "gasoline run" (This does not apply to diesels)
1. Run all your engines weekly... or if not possible
2. Keep your tanks as empty( NOT FULL) as possible when put in storage, spray or put fogging oil in the tanks directly. That's the hard part.
3. Carbs. disconnect fuel line, run the engine till it stalls, turn on choke and start engine, run it till it stalls again , then drain the bowls of fuel, fill fuel lines,( Pre fuel pump if it has one,) with fogging oil, crank engine over until bowls are full of oil. disconnect battery and put on trickle charge.
3.EFI....Do not run dry! Run the tank till its down low low, add 1/2 gallon of fresh premium gasoline with a heavy dose of your favorite additive (stabil/seafoam). run the engine for about a minute......or... purchase fogging oil that has Schrader valve threads (Johnson/evinrude...BRP sells it.) in its spray can. the J/E BRP can even comes a clear flexible hose making it easily to get to those pita valve locations. while spraying into the system run the engine for about 1 minute, that will be long enough to get the mixture in the tank into the rails and injectors. disconnect battery.
In the spring, Fill tank with fresh fuel, connect battery. and go.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chkmte77 View Post

Stabil (which is mostly ethanol) was good until about 2006 when the ethanol was introduced ... into all gasoline.

The lifespan of fuel has been depleted.... Its not meant to be left in storage anymore in a gas can, mower, motorcycle, boat etc.

... ethanol absorbs moisture from the atmosphere,
vented tanks end up with stale fuel (varnish) and water (that will turn to rust) over a season of sitting.

Non vented tanks just end up with varnish.

Seafoam is good but ...... Any fuel stabilizer is meant to keep fresh fuel, fresher a little longer, not rejuvenate old fuel. That's impossible.

Here is my best advice

1. Run all your engines weekly... or if not possible

2. Keep your tanks as empty (NOT FULL) as possible when put in storage,
spray or put fogging oil in the tanks directly. That's the hard part.

3. Carbs.
disconnect fuel line,
run the engine till it stalls,
turn on choke and start engine,
run it till it stalls again,
then drain the bowls of fuel,
fill fuel lines,(Pre fuel pump if it has one,) with fogging oil,
crank engine over until bowls are full of oil.
disconnect battery and put on trickle charge.

3.EFI....Do not run dry!
Run the tank till its down low low,
add 1/2 gallon of fresh premium gasoline with a heavy dose of your favorite additive (stabil/seafoam).
run the engine for about a minute......or... purchase fogging oil that has Schrader valve threads (Johnson/evinrude...BRP sells it.) in its spray can.
the J/E BRP can even comes a clear flexible hose making it easily to get to those pita valve locations.
while spraying into the system run the engine for about 1 minute, that will be long enough to get the mixture in the tank into the rails and injectors.
disconnect battery.
In the spring, Fill tank with fresh fuel, connect battery. and go.
Thanks chkmte77. I did a little editing to your post, to help me understand it all. I'll do some thinking on this and probably reply again later.

1800 C 2006, Spec 3, Silver. Desmogged. Vance & Hines Big Shots Exhaust. K&N air filter assembly #56-1080 + Duc's Intake. Honda Windshield, backrest and rack. Kuryakyn Gran Throwover bags. Quick-disconnect fuel fittings.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks also to Chuck and VTX1300cnME. I've tried 'quoting' you but for some reason it doesn't work on your posts.

Should old gas be used in the car? Isn't that asking for problems in the car?

Is there a difference in seafoam and stabil (stabilize versus cleaning ability)?

Is the gas in the aluminum fuel bottle going to stay fresh longer because there is no vent?

Thanks again to all replies!!

1800 C 2006, Spec 3, Silver. Desmogged. Vance & Hines Big Shots Exhaust. K&N air filter assembly #56-1080 + Duc's Intake. Honda Windshield, backrest and rack. Kuryakyn Gran Throwover bags. Quick-disconnect fuel fittings.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeW View Post
Thanks also to Chuck and VTX1300cnME. I've tried 'quoting' you but for some reason it doesn't work on your posts.

Should old gas be used in the car? Isn't that asking for problems in the car?

Is there a difference in seafoam and stabil (stabilize versus cleaning ability)?
I do not use seafoam.. many like it.. but if something needs cleaning.. I disassemble and clean it. not hope a chemical does its job from inside of gasoline

Is the gas in the aluminum fuel bottle going to stay fresh longer because there is no vent?

Thanks again to all replies!!
old gas into car... 5 gallons of getting old gas added to 15 gallons of fresh ... NO issue. I would NOT do it if OLDER.

seafoam and stabil are NOT the same.. different animal.. different Use.
I do not use seafoam.. many like it.. but if something needs cleaning.. I disassemble and clean it. not hope a chemical does its job from inside of gasoline

aluminum is also porous ..
years ago General Motors made a coating for there wheels.. leaked so bad. thru the metal.
.



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MTC clutch & springs.. K&N Air Filter. Garmin 2597 GPS.

Last edited by chuck_VTX F; 12-18-2016 at 09:00 PM.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 10:17 PM
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Sta-Bil doesn't work with certain winter blends of fuel with ethanol and my carbs did the same thing. Some say use the Marine Sta-Bil but my John Deere shop said just use Seafoam. That was 6 years ago and since I switched I have never had a problem.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 10:35 PM
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Chkmte77-
-For the record, Stabil fuel stabilizer does not contain ethanol. Check the MSDS.

I use Stabil for winter storage and it works for me. Ymmv of course, but at least do the research.

https://www.goldeagle.com/tips-tools...myths-debunked
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=1299205


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