Vtx 1800c 2003 Misfiring.. aka missing. - Page 2 - VTXOA
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 08:49 AM
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I listened to your audio, it is muted.
I hear a recurring sound which is probably the de-compressor exhaust lobe.

When you pull the spark plugs and lay the shell of the spark plug on the cyl head do you see sparks at the gap when the engine is cranking????

Valkrider mentioned rubbing of insulation caused a coil wire to be Grounded.
If the Yellow/Blue or Blue/Yellow are grounded the coil is ON but a spark is only produced when the ECM releases a Ground.
Ground is the trigger, false ground from a short, true ground from a ECM, This scenario also has happened with Injectors.
Other times the ECM side (Trigger) has been grounded by shorting on a harness clip at the breakout at the Injector wires.

There have been a few cases where wires have shorted. A few times the the Black/White wire was shorted and blew the 30 amp FI fuse.
Remove the ECM connectors look for the wires going to the IGN coils(Yellow/Blue or Blue/Yellow) and the Injectors(Pink/Blue or Pink/Yellow)

With IGN switch ON, verify +12v on Black/White wires, then pulse a Ground on each Ignition coil and Injector.
You should see an arc at the spark plug, you should hear the injector click when energized.

Do both cylinders, all spark plugs out and shell Grounded.
NOTE:: When the Black/White wire has +12v on it, each coil and Injector will have that voltage on the ECM wire.
That is the first test for continuity through the coil or injector.

Do you have any FI error codes from the FI indicator?

What is the Autolite spark plug you are using???

Do you have a Service Manual??
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 02-03 ECM main wires.jpg (377.3 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 1800 Ignition.jpg (184.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 1800 IGN coils.jpg (130.2 KB, 3 views)
File Type: png 1800 fuse-relay-mydiagram1.png (43.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: png 1800 Injector wiring.png (243.0 KB, 2 views)
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Last edited by Hans&Feet; 05-12-2019 at 09:48 AM. Reason: Added/updated a drawing, added questions...
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=chuck_VTX F;4590672]what do the spark plugs look like...

injector issues..
wiring for injectors.
do the coil/spark plug "spark" with them out of the bike.. test for spark

if spark.. its injector/fuel.. issue.

need to eliminate known good

air into cylinder
spark
fuel
compression.
exhaust

the basics... for an engine to run

Spark present when plug removed....pics of plugs attached.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg A3903C20-97A4-459B-8D70-4CED2A65EB6F.jpg (286.2 KB, 6 views)


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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans&Feet View Post
I listened to your audio, it is muted.
I hear a recurring sound which is probably the de-compressor exhaust lobe.

When you pull the spark plugs and lay the shell of the spark plug on the cyl head do you see sparks at the gap when the engine is cranking????

Valkrider mentioned rubbing of insulation caused a coil wire to be Grounded.
If the Yellow/Blue or Blue/Yellow are grounded the coil is ON but a spark is only produced when the ECM releases a Ground.
Ground is the trigger, false ground from a short, true ground from a ECM, This scenario also has happened with Injectors.
Other times the ECM side (Trigger) has been grounded by shorting on a harness clip at the breakout at the Injector wires.

There have been a few cases where wires have shorted. A few times the the Black/White wire was shorted and blew the 30 amp FI fuse.
Remove the ECM connectors look for the wires going to the IGN coils(Yellow/Blue or Blue/Yellow) and the Injectors(Pink/Blue or Pink/Yellow)

With IGN switch ON, verify +12v on Black/White wires, then pulse a Ground on each Ignition coil and Injector.
You should see an arc at the spark plug, you should hear the injector click when energized.

Do both cylinders, all spark plugs out and shell Grounded.
NOTE:: When the Black/White wire has +12v on it, each coil and Injector will have that voltage on the ECM wire.
That is the first test for continuity through the coil or injector.

Do you have any FI error codes from the FI indicator?

What is the Autolite spark plug you are using???

Do you have a Service Manual??


Put plugs on cylinder head all 4.... each plug fires when Engine is turned over.
Additionally the bike fired up and ran flawlessly for 5 minutes... the additional engine noise was gone... no misfires.... then after 5 minutes or so...Engine noise returned and it began to misfire?

No codes at all. Specifically no FI codes.
I replaced the original auto lite plugs with DENSO IRIDIUM PLUGS IK 16 5303.

I am downloading a service manual, currently.


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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, latest update .... on black wire with white tracer out of the ECM... there is 12vdc with the ignition on. With the ignition on there is also 12 vbc on the pink wire with blue tracer and also on the pink wire with the yellow tracer. Momentary short to ground on either of the pink wires...does result in a click... injector reaction. It appears that spark is present at all four plugs as well. Any other suggestions?


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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 08:27 PM
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Does it have a history of being parked for a long time??

It ran perfectly for five minutes..

Someone had an 1800, fine mesh screen
on injector had a blob of crap on it...

Something to think about...

Losing only one cylinder???

Another thing I mentioned earlier, where injector wires break out of the cable harness,
some shorts have occurred... Near a clip that holds the harness..
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans&Feet View Post
Does it have a history of being parked for a long time??

It ran perfectly for five minutes..

Someone had an 1800, fine mesh screen
on injector had a blob of crap on it...

Something to think about...

Losing only one cylinder???

Another thing I mentioned earlier, where injector wires break out of the cable harness,
some shorts have occurred... Near a clip that holds the harness..

Bike has sat up for several months. As I said I picked this bike up about a year ago. It ran just fine on the test ride and sounded good. However the bike was run down and as I began to work on it.... I began to realize the previous owner wasn’t exactly a Rocket Scientist. I have found countless wire splices... for God knows what reason. Today checking the injector function.... I found both the injector signal wires that been cut and sliced...??

However...it is always the front cylinder and there is no question the additional engine noise accompanies the misfire.


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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 10:39 PM
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If the RPM drops than the de-compressor may come into play.
If you raise the idle above 1500 rpm do you still have it.

Some de-compressor issues were very loud...
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 06:57 AM
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have you inspected the wire splices...... ?




may want to solder all splices... start with the injector wires.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans&Feet View Post
If the RPM drops than the de-compressor may come into play.
If you raise the idle above 1500 rpm do you still have it.

Some de-compressor issues were very loud...
The misfire is present at higher RPM.


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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck_VTX F View Post
have you inspected the wire splices...... ?




may want to solder all splices... start with the injector wires.
They seemed to be good. However I will solder them and properly insulate them.
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