What Octane Gas in the VTX? By Tapper - Page 2 - VTXOA
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post #11 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-21-2009, 03:26 PM
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Just have to put my .02 in. Higher octane does not have more power, Like stated before. All octane does is control detonation and preignition. The low compression of our engines do not need anything higher than 87. I come from a racing background. We run stuff 13:1 and up. We run 110 to 120 octane. The main factor in the fuel we run is compression. We run racing fuel. This is what the maker of our fuel says on their web site about octane.
FOUR FUEL PROPERTIES
Listed below are the four basic qualities of fuels. As in everything, there are trade-offs. You can't make a racing fuel that has the best of everything, but you can produce one that will give your engine the most power. This is why VP produces different fuels for different applications. The key to getting the best racing gasoline is not necessarily buying the fuel with the highest octane, but getting one that is best suited for your engine.

1. OCTANE: This does nothing more than rate a fuel's ability to resist detonation and/or preignition. Octane is rated in Research Octane Numbers, (RON); Motor Octane Numbers, (MON); and Pump Octane Numbers (R+M/2). Pump Octane Numbers are what you see on the yellow decal at gas stations, representing the average of the fuel's MON and RON. VP uses MON because this test method more accurately simulates racing conditions. The conditions under which fuels are tested using the RON method are not as demanding, thus the number is normally higher than the MON rating. This leads many other fuel companies to rate their fuels using the RON in an effort to make them appear more resistant to detonation. Don't be fooled by high RON numbers or an average -- MONs are the most relevant ratings for a racing application. Be aware, however, the ability of fuel to resist detonation is a function of more than just octane.

2. BURNING SPEED: This is the speed at which fuel releases its energy. At high RPMs, there is very little time (real time - not crank rotation) for fuel to release its energy. Peak cylinder pressure should occur around 20 ATDC. If the fuel is still burning after this, it is not contributing to peak cylinder pressure (which is what the rear wheels see).

3. ENERGY VALUE: An expression of the potential energy in the fuel. The energy value is measured in BTUs per pound, not per gallon. The difference is important. The air:fuel ratio is expressed in weight, not volume. Generally speaking, VP's fuels measure high BTUs per pound and thus, have a higher energy value. This higher energy value will have a positive impact on horsepower at any compression ratio or engine speed.

4. COOLING EFFECT: The cooling effect on fuel is related to the heat of vaporization. The higher a fuel's heat of vaporization, the better its ability to cool the intake mixture. A better cooling effect can generate some horsepower gains in 4-stroke engines, and even bigger gains in 2-stroke engines. They want to sell you the fuel that is going to perform the best for you. So when they say higher octane isn't always the best choice i tend to believe them.

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post #12 of 104 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 08:17 AM
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Found out yesterday that the gas here in Houston is hell on carbs. We have 10% Ethanol in the gas here and was told by one dealer that Honda does not warranty the carbs malfunction due to the gas here, and was show how the gas here turns the carbs green over time. i wonder in this case would a higher octane help this issue.

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post #13 of 104 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bigsmoke View Post
Found out yesterday that the gas here in Houston is hell on carbs. We have 10% Ethanol in the gas here and was told by one dealer that Honda does not warranty the carbs malfunction due to the gas here, and was show how the gas here turns the carbs green over time. i wonder in this case would a higher octane help this issue.
I find that hard to believe. Especially since the E10 is mandated by law in most locations. The issues you'll run into with the ethanol would be phase separation if you get water into the tank. Higher octane will not combat the effects of ethanol. Ethanol will not affect performance, but it will reduce your mileage due to less energy in a volume of ethanol than gasoline.


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post #14 of 104 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsmoke View Post
Found out yesterday that the gas here in Houston is hell on carbs. We have 10% Ethanol in the gas here and was told by one dealer that Honda does not warranty the carbs malfunction due to the gas here, and was show how the gas here turns the carbs green over time. i wonder in this case would a higher octane help this issue.
Complete and utter BS line by that dealer! In Illinois and the surrounding corn states, 10% ethanol is ALL we can buy and has been this way for over 20 years. If what your dealer said was true, we would have no working vehicles up here. Ethanol actually burns cleaner than straight gas and cleans out your carbs and injectors. You only have trouble if you leave the ethanol sitting in th ebike for long periods of time(over a month ) without adding a fuel stabilizer like Seafoam.

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post #15 of 104 (permalink) Old 03-16-2009, 02:05 AM
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Well, I just rode out 2 tanks of 85 octane gas, which is regular in this area. I can't give you any technical data, but my bike feels more responsive and seems to have more power. I'll give it a few more weeks, then pull the plugs and see what they look like, but so far I'm impressed.

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post #16 of 104 (permalink) Old 03-21-2009, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chicago-Spike View Post
You only need to add Seafoam, if you are going to park your bike and leave it for over a month at a time. That doesn't suprise me that the dealer never heard of this when you are in Texas. You can pretty much ride all year and never store it. But up here in Illinois, we store bikes for the winter, when fuel will be sitting unused for 3 or more months, this is when we add a stabilizer to the tank right before we put the bike on a stand and cover it up for the winter

Spike, we've had this discussion before. If your going to moderate the board please at least pass proper information.

http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm

SEA FOAM MOTOR TREATMENT for Gas Engine Applications

100% Pure Petroleum
Use in All Engines in All Seasons
2 Cycle, 4 Cycle, and Diesels
Treats 3 Critical Areas: Gas Tank, Fuel Systems, and Crankcase
  • Cleans fuel injectors
  • Cleans carburetor jets
  • Cleans carbon
  • Stabilizes fuels
  • Upper cylinder lube
  • Removes moisture in fuel
  • De-icer<LI class=plain>Frees sticky lifters <LI class=plain>Frees sticky rings <LI class=plain>Removes moisture in oil <LI class=plain>Cleans P.C.V. systems <LI class=plain>Cleans catalytic converter odors
  • Oxygen sensor safe

How Many Mechanics Use SEA FOAM In Tune-Up of 4 Cycle Gasoline Carbureted or Fuel Injected Engines
Autos, Trucks, and Tractors
  1. <LI class=plain>With engine warm, slowly pour 1/3 to 1/2 pint through carburetor or throttle body throat. (If vehicle is port injected slowly pour SEA FOAM through direct manifold vacuum line that will feed all cylinders, possible sources are P.C.V. valve or brake booster line.) This will pull SEA FOAM down on top of the pistons and to the back of the intake valves to dissolve carbon. Turn ignition off. Restart engine after 5 minutes. If severe carbon build up is apparent, use more Sea Foam as previously directed. Make sure exhaust is well ventilated when using Sea Foam in these various ways as fumes will be extreme for a short time. <LI class=plain>Pour 1/3 to 1/2 pint into oil crank case to clean rings, lifters, dirty parts and remove moisture. <LI class=plain>Pour 1/3 to 1 full pint into fuel tank to clean injectors, carburetor jets, fuel lines and remove moisture.
  2. Immediate Results: Smoother idle, increased R.P.M.'s better throttle response and improved performance. See label on can for detailed results for use in each area.
FUEL TANK, CARBURETOR, INJECTION and OIL CRANKCASE.
For Peak Performance, Use SEA FOAM Every 2,000 to 5,000 Miles
  • A 100% pure petroleum product for use in all gasoline and diesel type engines, both 2 and 4 cycle. OXYGEN SENSOR SAFE.
  • Cleans dirty engine parts internally by removing harmful gums, varnish and carbon. WORKS AND PERFORMS INSTANTLY.
  • Removes moisture from oil crankcases and fuel tanks.
  • Stabilizes and conditions fuels. Use for engine storage.
  • Cure hesitations, stalls, pings and rough idle due to carbon buildup.
  • Helps pass emissions test. EPA Registered.
When Used Thru Injection or Carburetor
  • Cleans carbon build up
  • Cleans intake valves and pistons
  • Gives smoother idle
  • Cleans catalytic converter odors
  • Cures hesitations and pings
  • Restores power and pickup
  • With warm engine running, SLOWLY pour 1/2 pint through carburator, throttle body or direct manifold vacuum line that will feed ALL CYLINDERS. Possible sources are P.C.V. valve or brake booster line. Turn ignition off. Restart engine after 5 minutes. Be sure exhaust is well ventilated. Fumes will be extreme for a short period of time.
  • For use in injector cleaning machines, use 50% SEA FOAM and 50% fuel.
  • Fill diesel filters with SEA FOAM to clean injectors fast.
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post #17 of 104 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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Mark, what did I say that was wrong? The poster and I were talking about STORING a bike or having it SIT UNUSED for a while. That is why I said he only needs to add for THAT reason. We were not talking about cleaning out the fuel system, just stabilizing the fuel

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post #18 of 104 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 11:29 AM
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You only need to add Seafoam, if you are going to park your bike and leave it for over a month at a time.

Sorry I guess my comment did come off as being critical. I was trying to say that Seafoam and some of the other products that you've mentioned in the past are used for storing and everyday use to keep the fuel systems clean.

Now as for Stabil (sp), I know we've all have been using it since god made dirt but I've have to say though I don't think it works. I've been told my many auto and MC mechanics NOT to use Stabil because it has a tendency to gum up the works. Just an example...the Goldwing I used to own..I use Stabil religiously.......I religiously replaced the fuel and air filters...oil etc. I started to have trouble with the carbs so I brought the bike to Honda and they disassembled my carbs and showed me the red crud in my carbs. I've had the same experience with my chain saws.

in Illinois, we store bikes for the winter, when fuel will be sitting unused for 3 or more months, this is when we add a stabilizer to the tank right before we put the bike on a stand and cover it up for the winter
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post #19 of 104 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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I know, but we were only talking about storeage use here, not cleaning the system
I use Seafoam to clean my small engines out. I use Techron to clean my cars/trucks and bikes out

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post #20 of 104 (permalink) Old 03-24-2009, 03:48 PM
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I run 85 (Utah) in mine and it runs a lot better than when I have run 91. With 91 my bike tends to surge a bit, and just in general doesn't run as good.

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