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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10-25-2019 10:05 PM
DrDolittle
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
Honda has the Fury 1300 in the 2020 lineup, very strange. The chopper scene died a long time ago.
There's a few in my neighborhood.

I like them.

I would buy one.

Used.
10-25-2019 12:46 PM
Harkon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowoc View Post
Come on, admit it - the participation trophy crack was funny.

//snipped//
Overhead valves have existed long enough tht they are pretty solid.
Not as funny as the "overhead valves" crack. Now that is some funny stuff, that there is!
10-24-2019 09:15 PM
Mowoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
Honda has the Fury 1300 in the 2020 lineup, very strange. The chopper scene died a long time ago.
They probably have some leftovers and didn't want to VTX them.
10-24-2019 08:59 PM
Harkon
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
Honda has the Fury 1300 in the 2020 lineup, very strange. The chopper scene died a long time ago.
Not available in Canada even. In Canada they have 2 cruisers, The Rebel 500 and the Rebel 300. They are entirely out of the cruiser market in Canada. Other than the Goldwing they have nothing at all that even remotely competes with anything Harley, or Indian for that matter. The variations of different bike types are all just different engines that look the same. Nothing too exciting, at least for me. Around here, Honda's sales of anything but sport bikes and dirt bikes / ATVs were dismal. That may only be for around this area, but it seems they will need to do something to spruce up the offerings to get people back into showrooms. I am told the new Goldwing did fairly well for them this past season though, even with it's teething problems.


My bet is that Honda will rely on international sales and wait out the market in North America. This is definitely a luxury they can enjoy for the interim. I don't think Harley has that luxury, but is something they are definitely working on. Their focus is definitely international sales. Asia and India, mainly.
10-24-2019 08:48 PM
DarkShadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowoc View Post

PPS - this is where honda is focusing. They could not care less about us american v twin riding types.
Honda has the Fury 1300 in the 2020 lineup, very strange. The chopper scene died a long time ago.
10-24-2019 08:36 PM
Mowoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTXArizona View Post
Harley has their work cut out for them, there's no doubt. Trends don't look good, especially when you compare to 2007.

Would still like to see worldwide unit sales by year from 2007, which i cannot find. Just revenue by year.

How can revenue be off 8% in 2017 compared to 2007 then you're providing data saying 50% drop in sales units in 2017 compared to 2007.

So the units went down by 50% and the revenue down by just 8%? I'm not a numbers guy, but something is wrong there. Maybe Harley sold a hell of a lot of leather jackets and oil changes, or became extremely efficient.

I would like to see Harley worldwide unit sales by year from 2007, which i cannot find. can you find the data?

Harley has their work cut out for them, there's no doubt. Trends don't look good, especially when you compare to 2007.

i purposely repeated what i consider important points i have.

Here's Harley's investor relations page:
https://investor.harley-davidson.com...e-retail-sales
they increased their marketing sales of paraphernalia. Tshirts and leather coats have a higher gross margin then bikes.


PS - worldwide sales of bikes are healthy. but most people in the developing world want smaller displacement bikes. 125 to 250 is all they want. those bikes tend to sell for < $1000.

I agree it would be great if HD could pierce that market - but they are marketing themselves as a premium brand. I just don't see this as viable for them unless they develop a separate brand for developing nations.

PPS - this is where honda is focusing. They could not care less about us american v twin riding types.
10-24-2019 08:32 PM
DarkShadow
Funny millennials and motorcycles videos.

10-24-2019 08:26 PM
DarkShadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowoc View Post


it is not just alarmists saying that HD is in for a rough time. The stock price for HD is down 38.55% over the last 5 years. At the same time the markets are up around 50% over the same time frame. HD has issues - and they are not tiny ones. Everyone knows it and the fix is easy and well known - get millennials to buy their bikes. TBH, I don't see a millennial tattooing HD or any other brand on themselves besides maybe apple. That generation simply doesn't see things like other generations.

HD won't make it if they can't extend their market to the younger generation, and that is the cold truth here. I am not saying they won't - clearly they are geniuses at marketing if they can get people to buy their technology at a rate that is approximately double the profit that anyone else makes.

I wish HD luck - I don't want them to disappear, but with a 50% loss in sold units over 10 years and younger demographic that doesn't find the brand appealing I don't see much hope for them long term.
Well said and some great data in previous posts. Millennials-a whole new breed that could take down most of the motorcycle industry in future. years.
10-24-2019 08:13 PM
VTXArizona Harley has their work cut out for them, there's no doubt. Trends don't look good, especially when you compare to 2007.

Would still like to see worldwide unit sales by year from 2007, which i cannot find. Just revenue by year.

How can revenue be off 8% in 2017 compared to 2007 then you're providing data saying 50% drop in sales units in 2017 compared to 2007.

So the units went down by 50% and the revenue down by just 8%? I'm not a numbers guy, but something is wrong there. Maybe Harley sold a hell of a lot of leather jackets and oil changes, or became extremely efficient.

I would like to see Harley worldwide unit sales by year from 2007, which i cannot find. can you find the data?

Harley has their work cut out for them, there's no doubt. Trends don't look good, especially when you compare to 2007.

i purposely repeated what i consider important points i have.

Here's Harley's investor relations page:
https://investor.harley-davidson.com...e-retail-sales
10-24-2019 03:49 PM
Mowoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTXArizona View Post

Bottom line, i think you are being an alarmist with regards to Harley, screaming "the sky is falling"
here.

First, the 2007 units purchased you reference does not separate Harley from all other brands making it misleading in a Harley-Davidson discussion. I tried (for awhile) to find Harley Davidson's USA Sales by unit per year 2007-2018 but could not find it. What i did find were these two pieces of data.

1. Harley-Davidson's sales revenue per year worldwide by year 2005-2018
Harley-Davidson Annual Revenue
(Millions of US $)
2018 $5,717
2017 $5,647
2016 $5,996
2015 $5,995
2014 $6,229
2013 $5,900
2012 $5,581
2011 $5,312
2010 $4,859
2009 $4,782
2008 $5,955
2007 $6,143
2006 $6,186
2005 $5,674
The above doesn't look so bad actually.
Source of data:
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/c...vidson/revenue

2. These "facts" i found by following the link you provided above. This link:
https://brandongaille.com/34-motorcy...ends-analysis/

#3. 1.9 million motorcycles are expected to be sold across North America in 2018. Harley Davidson is the global leader in the industry, with $5.6 billion in total revenues earned each year. (Statista)
This seems to contradict the statistica statement you provided regarding 2017 units sold.

#10. Harley Davidson has a 60% share of the female market within the motorcycle industry thanks to the introduction of its Street 500 and Street 750 models. (The Motley Fool)
What is the Harleys Market percentage share of the Male market within the motorcycle industry? That data was mysteriously missing.


Harley Sales are still down but not nearly as bad a you were trying to illustrate. 2018 blends in with the fluctuations that occurred over the range of years.


To all those with the Dooms Day scenario for Harley I say Lighten up Francis.
HD revenue doesn't mean its healthy. This is from the latest earnings release:

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/3...rnings-report/

As of right now, the company is targeting shipments of between 212,000 and 217,000 bikes worldwide for 2019. That is about 55% of the unit number I posted earlier.


it is not just alarmists saying that HD is in for a rough time. The stock price for HD is down 38.55% over the last 5 years. At the same time the markets are up around 50% over the same time frame. HD has issues - and they are not tiny ones. Everyone knows it and the fix is easy and well known - get millennials to buy their bikes. TBH, I don't see a millennial tattooing HD or any other brand on themselves besides maybe apple. That generation simply doesn't see things like other generations.

HD won't make it if they can't extend their market to the younger generation, and that is the cold truth here. I am not saying they won't - clearly they are geniuses at marketing if they can get people to buy their technology at a rate that is approximately double the profit that anyone else makes.

I wish HD luck - I don't want them to disappear, but with a 50% loss in sold units over 10 years and younger demographic that doesn't find the brand appealing I don't see much hope for them long term.
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