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Fantasyland?



My point being that buying/owning a handgun doesn't free anyone from the possiblility of becoming a victim of random violence, and furthermore, statistics show that owning one will likely increase your chances of being shot by that same gun and if you have a teen that they will use it on themselves.



Just buying/owning a gun doesn't mean you know how to use it in self defense and statistically the chances of the average person being in a situation where it saves their life is far outweighed by the chance of them or another family member being injured by that same gun.

"Statistically", the majority of people who have a gun permit, seek out some kind of basic weapons training.
"Statistically", more armed people have survived a violent event than have unarmed people.
"Statistically", more armed homeowners have shot a home-invader before the police even start their cars.
Owning a gun doesn't protect you from violence. It only puts the odds of survival more in your favor.
A gun is a dangerous weapon. Ignorant, Stupid, or mentally deranged people may hurt themselves or others. Some people shouldn't be allowed to have them.
Generally, the majority of good, sane, right-thinking people do quite well with a gun.
A gun is something you wear, it's not who you are.
 

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^^^^^^^
Well said indeed!
 

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Here in ky come June 1st , we can legally carry concealed weapon without a permit.
Good to know. Though my state has reciprocity with y'all's on carry permits so I m good, thank you.

Out of curiosity, does that new law apply only to residents of the state?
No, you don't have to be a resident to carry concealed without permit in ky come June 1st. Just have to be already able to legally own a gun. My sister didn't believe in gun rights , till a man tried to rape her . she now carries a pistol . with the drug epidemic there is more crazy ****e going on than there used to be . some guys on meth tried to get into my house at 3am a few years ago . I subdued the 2 at gunpoint without firing the gun .
 

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...some guys on meth tried to get into my house at 3am a few years ago . I subdued the 2 at gunpoint without firing the gun .
These are exactly the kind of encounters that decent gun owners find themselves in, and no shot is fired which frequently results in zero data entry into assorted “crime/gun stats”. I have had similar personal experiences. So when someone claims “statistically you are at greater risk due to owning a gun”, I know full well how empty their argument is.
 

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Using that logic, we should all get rid of our cars, and especially motorcycles. They're dangerous, you can hurt or kill yourself, and/or a loved one, Or if you have a teen-ager, they could kill themselves with it. The majority of Motorcycles are owned by white males, and we only own them because they're fun, and MACHO, and originally based on the myth of a character created by James Dean in "Rebel Without a Cause".
So, in such an argument, are you really saying that you'd rather be driving a Prius??
 

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"Statistically", the majority of people who have a gun permit, seek out some kind of basic weapons training.

This is backed up by what I've read.



"Statistically", more armed people have survived a violent event than have unarmed people.


This can't be true simply based on the fact that not every violet event warrants gun use and because more unarmed people are victims of violence simply because there are more of them. Studies done on armed vs unarmed victims indicate you are more likely to be shot in a violent encounter if you have a gun.



If you have a statistic that backs up your claim, lets see it... :popcorn:


"Statistically", more armed homeowners have shot a home-invader before the police even start their cars.

RUBBISH! That is all your comment warrants.



Owning a gun doesn't protect you from violence. It only puts the odds of survival more in your favor.

Statistics don't support your conclusion and in fact show the opposite. All studies show owning a gun increase your chances of violence/death by that very gun, either to you or those in the home with the gun.



Do you have a study that backs up your claim? Lets see it... :popcorn:

Some people shouldn't be allowed to have them.Generally, the majority of good, sane, right-thinking people do quite well with a gun.

So, back to that fantasy topic again? Surely you're not saying most gun owners are good, sane, right-thinking people? No? I'll stick to the stats thanks....



I will agree with "Better to have a gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it." even though it begs the question of what constitutes need. Most of our needs are imaginary and that was my original point. I own a handgun but I admit it's more likely it will be used on a family member, associate, or me than on a 'bad guy'. Still, right now I'm deluding myself that my family and I are safer with my gun and that I'm a sane, right-thinking person (like you) who is imune from all those nasty stats nobody likes to admit.



Just gimme some truth...
 
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I don't care about statistics when it comes to the second amendment . there is always some communist around trying to take away gun ownership like Chavez , Stalin , Hitler , and american democrats . go live in Venezuela if you like a country being disarm. To willing disarm is stupid . just look at the statistics on communist / socialist nations . there is no compromise on the 2nd amendment . if you don't understand , its the same way democrats feel about their precious abortion . the left is the party of death.
 

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My broad brush point was addressing the broad brush myth that you're safer owning a gun. Something that gun owners would hate to admit is that a great deal of gun ownership is at it's core based on unfounded fears, greatly illustrated by the OP's exaggerated examples (beat you with a newspaper—Really!:roll:). The common motivations for gun ownership is less based on reason, and more based on imagined threats and imagined hypothetical situations with unlikely hero scenario outcomes. By the way, some of these threats are racially motivated. White male gun ownership outnumbers all others.



If we wade past the BS in regards to gun ownership, the real motivations are based on family culture, (were you raised with guns) male persona, (it's macho to own a gun) a false sense of security, and lastly because shooting them is fun. It's too easy to access studies that reveal the BS so pro-gun owner advocates would have more legitimacy if they just admit that just like owning a motorcycle is fun and dangerous, so is owning a gun and dammit I have a right to some fun danger— even if it could hurt me or my family someday.:a13:
This is really hard for me as we do not have Guns (legally) in the U.K If we could I would own a gun! Why? because I think of a gun as a tool like my spanners and sockets and pliers and grips and screwdrivers. There are some tools I have that I very rarely use such as my Irwin bolt extractors. I rarely need them but when I do they are invaluable. Ergo owning a weapon. but like tools you need to know how to use them and through practice be competent to use them. I do not disagree with your statements about machismo, but you make a very broad and sweeping general statement. For some people, guns will be macho, for others, tools, and still others a way to keep the monsters away. I imagine there are as many reasons for gun ownership as there are types of guns.

These are exactly the kind of encounters that decent gun owners find themselves in, and no shot is fired which frequently results in zero data entry into assorted “crime/gun stats”. I have had similar personal experiences. So when someone claims “statistically you are at greater risk due to owning a gun”, I know full well how empty their argument is.
Ah statistics again what fun :+)

And Imagine!! Even after ya do all this stuff:
To fear God and maintain His Church
To serve the liege lord in valour and faith
To protect the weak and defenceless
To give succour to widows and orphans
To refrain from the wanton giving of offence
To live by honour and for glory
To despise pecuniary reward
To fight for the welfare of all
To obey those placed in authority
To guard the honour of fellow knights
To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit
To keep faith
At all times to speak the truth
To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun
To respect the honour of women
Never to refuse a challenge from an equal
Never to turn the back upon a foe

The Queen picks Elton John over YOU!!

Perception. How we perceive a guy in armor, and wielding an 18 pound sword, (weight, not cost) as a romantic hero, but a guy in a Kevlar vest, and wielding an automatic rifle is a holy terror.
Go figure!:thumbup:
Ah I see you have linked honour to the knightly vows, which historically were only ever held among the nightly classes. To live with honour and duty is for the common man, and is impingent on all people (men and women alike.) That is simply never to knowingly cause by act or omission harm to come to your neighbour (who is your neighbour?) your neighbour is a person you need to bear in mind for any given scenario. i.e. you are in a parking lot and see a little old lady trying cross the street but having trouble due to her age and frailty. I would suggest you have a duty to help her cross safely (she is currently your neighbour). Or your next door neighbour who cannot cut his lawn because his mower is broke your duty here is to loan him yours or to cut his for him as you cut yours, or to help him fix it if your good at that kind of stuff. In the same vein, a burglar decides your house is right for a spot housebreaking practice, you have a duty to protect your property, to protect your family and to only use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances to stop the burglar and turn him from his deed. If he runs away you let him go and let the Bobbies do their job. If he is insistent on taking what does not belong to him you subdue him to the best of your ability using reasonable force. (the burglar is your neighbour) To be honourable is simply to tell the truth, not to cheat, not to steal and not to deliberately or maliciously cause harm those who are weaker than you. You don't need all that knightly crap (which was never aimed at or for commoners anyway) to live life well and with integrity. I have always been of the understanding that your own constitution and bill of rights says very similar things. (one of the reasons I respect and admire our brothers across the pond) Or is it ok to lie swindle cheat and bully anyone you see fit simply because you can? Or because you're upset or angry. I do not think there is anything wrong with trying to make your little piece of the world a better place to live in. Paying it forward has to start somewhere and in My humble experience works rather well old bean:+)
 

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My point being that buying/owning a handgun doesn't free anyone from the possiblility of becoming a victim of random violence, and furthermore, statistics show that owning one will likely increase your chances of being shot by that same gun and if you have a teen that they will use it on themselves.
While I do not disagree with the notion, I strongly urge you to read the whole article and especially the disclaimers that happen to invalidate all its findings on the national level. Key words such as "small sample" and "limited to a few counties, geographic areas, or states" etc give it away.

Just buying/owning a gun doesn't mean you know how to use it in self defense and statistically the chances of the average person being in a situation where it saves their life is far outweighed by the chance of them or another family member being injured by that same gun.
...
A gun is a dangerous weapon. Ignorant, Stupid, or mentally deranged people may hurt themselves or others. Some people shouldn't be allowed to have them.
Can't agree more.
Libtards say "guns kill people". Hardcore conservatives yell "no, people kill people".
It wouldn't be a bad idea to compromise on "ignorant, stupid and deranged people kill people".
But neither side of the spectrum is willing to compromise, that's the problem I see.

As with any dangerous tool, I always advise proper training and frequent re-training for proficiency. Not everybody agrees but hey, it's a free world. *shrug*
 

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Wow. You need a better class of friends. My various shooting buds routinely get together. And an obvious part of male camaraderie is competition. We shoot drills from the holster, some with gun on the table, and others with gun in hand. Last month when we got together, one guy brought his neighbor, an NC Highway Patrolman. I’m happy to report having worn him out on plate drills. But he was a good sport about it and is welcome back any time.
That sounds like good times with your friends.
I train by myself at our club range. Don't know anyone there well enough to train with. Most of our club members who care to train enough train on weekdays (retired or rich). I am just a schmoe who has to train after work. :)
I wouldn't mind some friendly competition in target practice, it keeps things interesting and naturally encourages one to improve.
 

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No, you don't have to be a resident to carry concealed without permit in ky come June 1st. Just have to be already able to legally own a gun.
Thank you, good to know!

My sister didn't believe in gun rights , till a man tried to rape her . she now carries a pistol .
Yeah, typical libtards.
They usually act like this: "We don't need guns, they are evil" but then "Hold on, I have been wronged ... somebody give me a gun, I need to kill everybody while I am steaming mad". *shrug*

My in-laws pretty dang far left and anti-gun like crazy. Though recently, I found out that they acquired a handgun. Logically, they have no idea how to use it. Jeepers creepers! :surprise:
I suggested that they go down to the indoor shooting range a few minutes from their house to take some lessons with a certified instructor, they sounded oh so annoyed at the inconvenience.
I am afraid what might happen.
 

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Thank you, good to know!


Yeah, typical libtards.
They usually act like this: "We don't need guns, they are evil" but then "Hold on, I have been wronged ... somebody give me a gun, I need to kill everybody while I am steaming mad". *shrug*

My in-laws pretty dang far left and anti-gun like crazy. Though recently, I found out that they acquired a handgun. Logically, they have no idea how to use it. Jeepers creepers! :surprise:
I suggested that they go down to the indoor shooting range a few minutes from their house to take some lessons with a certified instructor, they sounded oh so annoyed at the inconvenience.
I am afraid what might happen.

Suggestion: NEVER enter their house unannounced.

>:)
 

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Suggestion: NEVER enter their house unannounced.

>:)
AGREED!!

I am a naturally polite person. I either knock or ring the bell. I do not enter unannounced or uninvited.
Even the in-laws have said numerous times "just come on it anytime, you don't have to knock". I always tell them that my parents raised me better than that. They don't argue. :)

Even if I enter my unarmed best buddy's house with invitation, I knock, wait a second or two, crack the door open, yell "friendlies!" and usually hear back "come on up, I won't shoot". :)

Common sense is a must. Unfortunately, it has become a misnomer due to it not being really common anymore.
 

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I know LOTS of gun owners at the target range who train regularly.
Many are Veterans who have been training for at least 30 years, and can disassemble and assemble a weapon in less time than you can quote your target scores.
I know LOTS of gun owners who keep their guns handy around the house.
 

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Ah I see you have linked honour to the knightly vows, which historically were only ever held among the nightly classes. To live with honour and duty is for the common man, and is impingent on all people (men and women alike.)
Well, Actually, I was being somewhat sarcastic. Seeing as how the actual "Knight's Oath", and "Chivalry" were more of an ideal than an actual goal that was ever reached by anyone who were ever deemed as "Knights", and were frequently interpreted to suit the situation or the perpetrator. But I agree with you for the most part. But again, I think it's mostly an ideal. The little old lady who reported your barking dog. The Neighbor who broke your last lawn mower you loaned him. The one who's sister always parks in your driveway. etc. There's an old Shinto saying that says, "Do your Best in all things, no one can ask more of you.". :thumbup:
 

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[censored], this is better than an oil thread !
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And you know that I want to contribute.


Here is the Wife, with a nice 6x6 elk that she took at 311 yards (laser rangefinder) with a rifle smithed by me in 8mm-06 Ackley Improved - pushing a 200 grain nosler partition at 2950 ahead of xx grains of 760 and a Federal magnum primer. Yes, she loads her own cartridges.

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The year before....... with a Winchester Classic Featherweight in 6.5x55 at 110 yards. 140 grain Hornady interlock bullet ahead of a compressed case full of Reloader-22.


See that chicken ? Yep. THAT was dinner.

>:)>:)>:)
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