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Well, Actually, I was being somewhat sarcastic. Seeing as how the actual "Knight's Oath", and "Chivalry" were more of an ideal than an actual goal that was ever reached by anyone who were ever deemed as "Knights", and were frequently interpreted to suit the situation or the perpetrator. But I agree with you for the most part. But again, I think it's mostly an ideal. The little old lady who reported your barking dog. The Neighbor who broke your last lawn mower you loaned him. The one who's sister always parks in your driveway. etc. There's an old Shinto saying that says, "Do your Best in all things, no one can ask more of you.". :thumbup:
Haha I had hoped you were not being serious. There is a fantastic book called Tirant lo Blanch it is a medieval chivalric romance written in the 15th century and gives you a pretty good idea of knightly behaviour. You are right of course the chivalric code while being an utterly wonderful ideal (apart from obeying authority at times) was never upheld or designed to be upheld towards commoners (surfs) and was not always used for those of much lower rank. But you would be surprised how many nights and aristocracy did follow the values of each other. Its one of the things that really miffed the French at Agincourt as so many French nights were killed on the field by the English commoners. there will always be people you cannot trust. Sometimes you know straight away who they are sometimes you do not and may get stung. The lawnmower man? No, I wouldn't lend him my mower again. ( I would never offer to borrow something without adding you kill it you replace it. That is the standard value of loaning equipment, on bikes we always say you bend it you mend it) I might offer to help him fix his or I might mow his lawn for him when I mow mine. Life is far too short to spend it paranoid or without compassion for others. being angry and low and afraid all the time is not helpful or good for us. I agree completely with the Shinto saying, apart from "your best" is always changing. Doing the right thing based on honour and duty (of care) is less changeable.
[censored], this is better than an oil thread !
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And you know that I want to contribute.


Here is the Wife, with a nice 6x6 elk that she took at 311 yards (laser rangefinder) with a rifle smithed by me in 8mm-06 Ackley Improved - pushing a 200 grain nosler partition at 2950 ahead of xx grains of 760 and a Federal magnum primer. Yes, she loads her own cartridges.

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The year before....... with a Winchester Classic Featherweight in 6.5x55 at 110 yards. 140 grain Hornady interlock bullet ahead of a compressed case full of Reloader-22.


See that chicken ? Yep. THAT was dinner.

>:)>:)>:)
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If you skinned it and ate it (used the meat) and used all the bits you could..... crack-on. If you sold it to or gave it to someone who would use it crack-on. If you shot it and forgot about it other than antlers/head on the wall you're a bit of a canute :+)
 

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If you skinned it and ate it (used the meat) and used all the bits you could..... crack-on. If you sold it to or gave it to someone who would use it crack-on. If you shot it and forgot about it other than antlers/head on the wall you're a bit of a canute :+)

I'm not sure why you would care. You minding your own business, as such. :wink2:
 

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I remember when I was a kid in the 70's I used to watch an American cartoon called wait till your father gets home. In the title credits was a lyric that said what Daddy doesn't know won't hurt him. Well, this kinda fits that! If I didn't know I wouldn't care, I don't know where it came from (perhaps popular culture) I have this image of folks in America that hunt also having an ethos of eating what you kill etc. To kill for the sake of killing neither does you or nature any justice.
And lastly, If you do not want people to have an opinion on what you do (or not) don't tell them. At the end of the day you do whatever you want with your life in whatever way you want to do it but if (like that dozy dentist who shot the lion) you kill for the sake of killing and nothing else then you won't get a Christmas card from me and now I won't get a Christmas card from you and I think that just makes the world a sadder place with less Christmas cards to share:+(
 

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'Life is far too short to spend it paranoid or without compassion for others. being angry and low and afraid all the time is not helpful or good for us. I agree completely with the Shinto saying, apart from "your best" is always changing. Doing the right thing based on honour and duty (of care) is less changeable. ' --Wavey Dave

True. The thing about that saying, is that "Your Best" is pretty general, and is different for everyone. Another great quote is when Albert Einstein said, "Avoid negative people. They have a problem for every solution.".

On hunters; I like Comedian Ron White's view, that killing an elk with a high-powered rifle from a half-mile away is no great feat. "Next time", he says, "Just put little headlights on the bullet, and the deer will jump out in front of it.". Killing anything as a "sport" is somehow the product of a twisted mind.

Cheers!!
 

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'Life is far too short to spend it paranoid or without compassion for others. being angry and low and afraid all the time is not helpful or good for us. I agree completely with the Shinto saying, apart from "your best" is always changing. Doing the right thing based on honour and duty (of care) is less changeable. ' --Wavey Dave

True. The thing about that saying, is that "Your Best" is pretty general, and is different for everyone. Another great quote is when Albert Einstein said, "Avoid negative people. They have a problem for every solution.".

On hunters; I like Comedian Ron White's view, that killing an elk with a high-powered rifle from a half-mile away is no great feat. "Next time", he says, "Just put little headlights on the bullet, and the deer will jump out in front of it.". Killing anything as a "sport" is somehow the product of a twisted mind.

Cheers!!
That is an interesting position.



My fondest memories of my youth are those of fishing with my dad. We killed and ate every fish we caught, and when we had our limit, fishing was done. My father was not a catch and release guy, he thought it immoral to torment the fish. If you catch it, you kill it and you eat it ... the natural order. The waste was composted for the garden. It was sport and it was done for enjoyment. We could have bought fish at the market, ultimately killed in a far less humane fashion than we killed ours, so I'm unclear as to the disconnect.


Kill an elk from 100, 200 or 300 yards out. If it's a clean kill, I assure you that elk had a more humane ending than the cow that gave it's life for that burger you'd enjoy ... just sayin'. I've been to several killing floors, for beef, pork and chicken. As a one time hunter and fisherman, I was surprised. Yet we still enjoy the pork chop dinner, don't we?


Killing as a sport, if one utilizes the carcass, is, in my opinion, as humane to wildlife as anything we do as carnivores. Whether for sport or for necessity, animals die so that we can eat ... that is a fact in this world, and is the natural order of things. No regrets on this side.


For all of the vegans out there, kudos to you, but, I am a confirmed carnivore. I was born one, and will die one, prematurely or otherwise ... and I'm okay with that too.


I think this discussion went a bit off the rails with the last 2 posts, so I do apologize for that.
 

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It's not that much off topic! we are still talking guns and using them, aren't we?
But isn't that the beauty of conversation? That it has an ebb and a flow to it? that it weaves and deviates back and forth as people contribute?
I am probably quite a coward. Like most other folk I am happy (well not really happy-but don't complain and don't act) for animals to be slaughtered in the millions for my fat belly, for my convenience. we were given a couple of ducks and a pheasant by a friend a year or two back. My wife had to gut and process them because I was too squeamish (Big hard Dave). I do not have a problem with sport/enjoyment in killing I have a problem with killing for killing's sake. I admire people killing for food partly because it sticks it to the man and partly because it is something I would conscionably like to do but something I am not sure I could do. I am also too much of a meat lover to become a vegetarian or a vegan. I can preach all day about morals and ethics. (I even train professional and moral and ethical standards in various subjects) yet at heart, I am like most human beings. Full of contradictions, yeah buts, holier than thou statements, and you shoulds. Conversation brings those things home to me (thanks Harkon) and neatly takes the soapbox from under my feet whenever I get too big for my boots. It is really good to be reminded sometimes that you are no different than anyone else. That despite all your strengths, growth and skills your knowledge and your abilities your heroism and brightness. You are just another human being, weak, mean, petty, cowardly, cruel, ignorant and a bit of a knob sometimes. That's my last word on this post, you can now return to normal viewing :+)
 

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Poser, I am in awe of your wifes skill, but what did the deer do to get her so angry she needed to take this sort of revenge? Unless the crime was very severe the punishment just appears somewhat over the top. I would really have to hate that deer to do that!
 

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The "Why do you need a gun?" question is shallow BS and merely an attempt by the loony left to disarm us and seize control.

Why does anyone need a car? They kill.
Why does anyone need booze? It kills.
Why does anyone need a knife? They kill.

The list is endless.
 

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Poser, I am in awe of your wifes skill, but what did the deer do to get her so angry she needed to take this sort of revenge? Unless the crime was very severe the punishment just appears somewhat over the top. I would really have to hate that deer to do that!
I'm curious. Are you a vegetarian?
 

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Poser, I am in awe of your wifes skill, but what did the deer do to get her so angry she needed to take this sort of revenge? Unless the crime was very severe the punishment just appears somewhat over the top. I would really have to hate that deer to do that!

The elk population must be culled on a yearly basis as if they are not, their ever increasing population would endanger the entire population. This is part of wildlife management, and is necessary to keep the population healthy. I could try to explain all of the details, but there is a lot of information available on the internet. Up here, TB can be a problem among elk. A crowded population of elk will mean one sick animal can take down an entire population. If the elk are more spread out, one sick animal is killed by wolves, or a cougar and is consumed and neutralized, or is left behind and dies on it's own. Poser's wife helped to keep an entire population of elk healthy so that it can perpetuate. And such is the circle of life.


FTR, you can't just go out and shoot an elk. You must first get permission (generally a tag) to shoot an elk, or deer or moose, or bear, or whatever. Then you are only allowed to kill what your tag is for. Might be a trophy buck, or a doe, or it might be an open tag, meaning anything older than 1yr, is fair game, but those aren't, any longer, generally available up here. Tags can be had via a lottery, you apply and you may or may not get a tag, or first come first serve. Tags generally carry an associated fee. If you are caught with a dead animal and a tag is not permanently affixed to the animal, (tags are like zip ties and are single use), you will be charged with poaching. Possibly lose your firearm(s), vehicle and whatnot, and you get a big fine, or maybe even jail time. Laws and the process can vary from region to region, but this offers a general overview.
 

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Guns or god here comes Lefty!

I'm curious. Are you a vegetarian?


No way!!! I am heavily carnivorous. I just cant see why you would kill something that big that would be tough, chewy and way too much too eat. Putting up photos appears to me, to be at best, chest beating in front of the pack as a way of claiming dominance. Very primal. I too, were a shooter, as a young man, and the testosterone flowed rapidly through my body but with age it has slowed and my killing has stopped and kangaroos which need to be culled here in Australia can have no fear of me and my guns.
P.S. this is in no way an attack on poser or his wife who are free to live as they wish and do what they wish. It is just an opinion ( like arseholes, we all have one)
 

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Discussion Starter #53
I don't hunt, never have. (City Boy :dontknow:)

I do have a friend that hunts. We eat what he kills.
Venison steak, Boar sausage, etc. He hunts for the sport, but eats & shares what he kills.

I've read somewhere that many hunters donate the meat to Homeless Shelters, etc. :thumbup:
 

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Not every violent event warrants gun use. True. Those violent events that DO warrant gun use are more likely to be survived by those able to defend themselves.

Yes, more unarmed people are victims, because, they are unable to defend themselves. Not too many armed people are victims. As I said, more armed people will survive a violent event, and not become a victim.

"All studies show owning a gun increase your chances of violence/death by that very gun, …". Well, of course!! Those are the same "studies" that say if you drive a car, you're more likely to be in a car accident. DUH!!

"Surely you're not saying most gun owners are good, sane, right-thinking people? No? I'll stick to the stats thanks....".
Most legal gun owners are good, sane, right-thinking people. And if they're not, all the more reason to be prepared to defend yourself against the knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing horde of armed animals out there!

You ask for truth. You own a gun, but don't like to own a gun. You're sure it's going to be used on a family member and not on a 'bad guy'. You seem to have a lot of -- Albeit -- reasons why you shouldn't own a gun. But yet, you do. . . .
A journey of 1,000 miles begins with the first step. To thine own self, be true. If you don't like guns, get rid of it, and live with the consequences. If you DO like guns, keep it, and live with the consequences. It's simply your choice. That's the TRUTH.
 

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Personally, I don't know why anyone would go all the way to Australia, just to shoot a Roo.
Me neither. If it wasn't just 150 miles away from my home to the shooting grounds I wouldn't bother. Trust me they taste like **** and we only used them for dog meat.
 

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Nice ad hominem that has nothing to do with the question.



Checking on my subscriptions and reading the progress of this thread and I'm amused that Lefty STILL has no understanding of ad hominem and when it applies and doesn't (it doesn't here). After 'schooling' him on it countless times he still is trying to impress people that he learned the term, (he didn't) and by falsely accusing them of applying it to him. :roll:


:thumbup:Stupid comparisons:

  • Guns and cars in regard to their necessity and situations where death is involved—Knives and guns for the same reason.
  • Vehicle deaths compared to deaths by guns. Humans need cars to survive in today's world, the same can't be said for personal weapons.
Comparing deaths by "booze" to guns simply demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the topic or more likely a willingness to display poorly thought out reason as evidence. When is the last time someone went on a :a13:boozing spree, killing innocent victims? Gimme a break!



In regard to killing for sport? Who's business is it when others do something we consider wrong behavior? Everyone's. I agree with Bikerbob1 "killing anything as a "sport" is somehow the product of a twisted mind." I think "twisted mind" is bit harsh here and self-deluded is more often the case. Hunters proud of their kills aren't performing necessary evils, (helping keep populations down) so who are they fooling with the grinning photos and the bragging about scopes and shot distance? PL-E-E-E-A-A-S-E!



Imagine if there were no people willing to slaughter animals for sport? How would the planet's animal populations ever survive??? :surprise: How did they survive before man???
Ever hear of animal sterilization?



If we want to do something we shouldn't be doing, it's amazing how adept we are at finding reasons for them!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftyBiker View Post
Guns or god here comes Lefty

Nice ad hominem that has nothing to do with the question.

Your right Lefty but as you are usually attacking me over these two subjects I got into niggle mood Way too early. I apologise. Enjoy your day.



Actually, he's wrong. Your "Guns or god..." heading isn't an attack, but is merely an observation, and you answered his question, you didn't attack him so that the topic (or anything) could be avoided.



Lefty owes you an appology for his false accusation.



ad hominem

adjective ad ho· mi· nem | \ (ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem

, -nəm\

Definition of ad hominem

(Entry 1 of 2)


1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect an ad hominem argument

2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made made an ad hominem personal attack on his rival
 

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Poser, I am in awe of your wifes skill, but what did the deer do to get her so angry she needed to take this sort of revenge? Unless the crime was very severe the punishment just appears somewhat over the top. I would really have to hate that deer to do that!

That elk was an innocent victim of misplaced hunger.


It's true,



We have cows, and they all have names. And it's those cute little names that the Wife gave them. Pet names.

Couldn't be eating one of those, now could we?


>:)
 
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