Honda VTX Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2003 1800R, and want to replace starter since it acted weird a few times last season. The started tried to turn over but just whined { Like an old dodge starter}. I will check the starter switch contacts as I was unaware of this problem, but it is not likely the problem. The book says you must remove the left side engine cover and starter gears.... Is this so....Please say it is not so! Pardon the humor, but life is to short, enjoy it! I tried searching here and at bareasschoppers site but had no luck. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :dontknow:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,553 Posts
Have you checked the grounds? Tightened the battery connections? Then the push button for the start switch is funky and may need to be cleaned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,672 Posts
Yep the book is correct. If it were me I would wait until it fails... Its pretty easy to push start a bike even a big one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the info guys, will wait untill it fails to replace starter. All contacts and solenoid were working fine, guess the starter does not like cold weather.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
I have a 2003 1800R, and want to replace starter since it acted weird a few times last season. The started tried to turn over but just whined { Like an old dodge starter}. I will check the starter switch contacts as I was unaware of this problem, but it is not likely the problem. The book says you must remove the left side engine cover and starter gears.... Is this so....Please say it is not so! Pardon the humor, but life is to short, enjoy it! I tried searching here and at bareasschoppers site but had no luck. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :dontknow:
There was a recent post (may still be going on, http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212825&highlight=starter+removal) about starter problems, and in the middle was this write up (which I saved for future reference);


OK I finally found my problem and fixed it. Short story: It was a bad STARTER.
Long story: I tried all the suggestions - THANKS GUYS! I traced my problem to a suspected starter problem, and I ordered one from Hal. Honda had it on backorder for fricken forever so I just recently received it.
Removal/Installation? Well let's just say you won't do it by the book. No way it'll come out by following Honda's Service Manual with the engine in the frame - no way. You can easily get it lose, but it won't go anywhere. (You MAY be able to snake it out if you remove the upper motor mount bracket, but I didn't try it because I couldn't get to the starter wire.) The trick is to remove the bottom radiator hose and the bottom two bolts holding the radiator to the frame. Leave the top radiator hose and top radiator bolt connected (heck I needed to change the fluid anyways). Loosen nothing else (no wiring, no fan motor, no radiator frame pieces, nothing.). This will give you plenty of room to remove the starter wire and get the starter out the front of the frame (without scratching the frame cross member).
EDIT FROM A LATER POST:
Also, I found an easier way to get to your starter (the wire or to remove the starter entirely). Don't follow the manual - it won't work (not enough room). Previously I wrote to remove the bottom mounting bolts and disconnect the bottom radiator hose, leaving the radiator to hang from the single top bolt. Well, its even easier to just unbolt the bottom and top bolts (without disconnecting any hoses) and let the radiator hang from the hoses. This creates enough room to remove the starter wires and starter without the coolant mess.
END EDIT
Note the Honda Manual tells you to remove the "starter drive gear". Well, that means taking off the left hand crankcase cover (and I don't mean just the decorative chrome cover in the center - I mean opening the case.) Well, there is no need to do that (unless you want to check - the torque limiter, starter drive gear, and/or bearings - I didn't.) The starter will come lose (and reinstall) just fine with the torque limiter gear in place. I stabbed it back in the first try - no problem.
OK with the old starter out, I took it apart to check it out. The commutator bars were excessively black, in my opinion - all of them uniformly. Not wiped with rings of discoloration or scratches, but pitch black everywhere the brushes contacted them. I cleaned them up with Tarn-X (and a lot of scrubbing) to look like new. Everything else checked out fine (everything), except there was NO continuity between the commutator bars and the armature shaft - nothing on any of them. I've concluded I have an open short per page 18-7 of Honda's Service Manual. This appears to be a ground back to the engine/frame/battery. Apparently, there is some flow elsewhere when the starter is engaged, but not enough to turn the engine over.
Anyway, the new starter (the one last thing I changed) SCREAMS that engine to life. No lugging, no slow starts, no intermittent problems, nothing - it screams alive so fast I can hardly tell the starter engages. Quite a contrast from before. It even started that fast after the bike sat on PepsX's bike stand for months (and it never fell over ) - i.e. with lower battery voltage.
So there you have it. My problem solved. If you are experiencing similar problems - check all your wiring and starter relay first. The starter costs $90.00.
End of posting by Todd2

Hope this helps...

Chuck
 
  • Like
Reactions: josetrevinojr8

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
I dont think there should ever be continuity between the commutator bars and the shaft, If there was it would be grounded and blow open when power was put to it

There was a recent post (may still be going on, http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212825&highlight=starter+removal) about starter problems, and in the middle was this write up (which I saved for future reference);


OK I finally found my problem and fixed it. Short story: It was a bad STARTER.
Long story: I tried all the suggestions - THANKS GUYS! I traced my problem to a suspected starter problem, and I ordered one from Hal. Honda had it on backorder for fricken forever so I just recently received it.
Removal/Installation? Well let's just say you won't do it by the book. No way it'll come out by following Honda's Service Manual with the engine in the frame - no way. You can easily get it lose, but it won't go anywhere. (You MAY be able to snake it out if you remove the upper motor mount bracket, but I didn't try it because I couldn't get to the starter wire.) The trick is to remove the bottom radiator hose and the bottom two bolts holding the radiator to the frame. Leave the top radiator hose and top radiator bolt connected (heck I needed to change the fluid anyways). Loosen nothing else (no wiring, no fan motor, no radiator frame pieces, nothing.). This will give you plenty of room to remove the starter wire and get the starter out the front of the frame (without scratching the frame cross member).
EDIT FROM A LATER POST:
Also, I found an easier way to get to your starter (the wire or to remove the starter entirely). Don't follow the manual - it won't work (not enough room). Previously I wrote to remove the bottom mounting bolts and disconnect the bottom radiator hose, leaving the radiator to hang from the single top bolt. Well, its even easier to just unbolt the bottom and top bolts (without disconnecting any hoses) and let the radiator hang from the hoses. This creates enough room to remove the starter wires and starter without the coolant mess.
END EDIT
Note the Honda Manual tells you to remove the "starter drive gear". Well, that means taking off the left hand crankcase cover (and I don't mean just the decorative chrome cover in the center - I mean opening the case.) Well, there is no need to do that (unless you want to check - the torque limiter, starter drive gear, and/or bearings - I didn't.) The starter will come lose (and reinstall) just fine with the torque limiter gear in place. I stabbed it back in the first try - no problem.
OK with the old starter out, I took it apart to check it out. The commutator bars were excessively black, in my opinion - all of them uniformly. Not wiped with rings of discoloration or scratches, but pitch black everywhere the brushes contacted them. I cleaned them up with Tarn-X (and a lot of scrubbing) to look like new. Everything else checked out fine (everything), except there was NO continuity between the commutator bars and the armature shaft - nothing on any of them. I've concluded I have an open short per page 18-7 of Honda's Service Manual. This appears to be a ground back to the engine/frame/battery. Apparently, there is some flow elsewhere when the starter is engaged, but not enough to turn the engine over.
Anyway, the new starter (the one last thing I changed) SCREAMS that engine to life. No lugging, no slow starts, no intermittent problems, nothing - it screams alive so fast I can hardly tell the starter engages. Quite a contrast from before. It even started that fast after the bike sat on PepsX's bike stand for months (and it never fell over ) - i.e. with lower battery voltage.
So there you have it. My problem solved. If you are experiencing similar problems - check all your wiring and starter relay first. The starter costs $90.00.
End of posting by Todd2

Hope this helps...

Chuck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
I copied this from a website for delco starters

2. Check armature (13) as follows for shorts, opens or
grounds using suitable test equipment and instruments
(test lamp must be 110 volts or less):
l
Rotate armature in a growler holding a steel strip such
as a hacksaw blade against the armature. If a short
circuit is present, the steel strip will vibrate in that
area.
l
Check the armature for grounds using a test lamp or
ohmmeter. There shall be no continuity between the
armature shaft and any point on the commutator.
l
Check for opens by visually inspecting the points
where the armature conductors join the commutator.
A poor connection often will be indicated by signs of
arcing or burning of the commutator.
l
Replace armatures which are shorted, grounded or
show evidence of opens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
No continuity in the starter motor

JimAC, you are right. The complete information about Delco Starters can be read at:

http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/13/13A4R2.PDF

So there are two errors in the pdf-file of the Honda Manual about continuity in the starter motor.
In my hardcopy of the “Honda Service Manual for the VTX-1800 C/F” Honda made already one correction about the necessity of no continuity between the commutator bar and the armature shaft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Great info!

Hey Guys, THANKS!!!
You have to love this forum, I was on the way out to the shop after reading my manual to pull the left side case and rad so I could remove the starter on my 1800-N and install new brushes when I thought I would do a quick search on the forum to see if others had gone where I'm about to go!...

Thanks to everyone for the info! I can now go out and save all of the time that would have been wasted to pull the left side cover and Rad... Whew!

Have a great Day!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hey Guys, THANKS!!!
You have to love this forum, I was on the way out to the shop after reading my manual to pull the left side case and rad so I could remove the starter on my 1800-N and install new brushes when I thought I would do a quick search on the forum to see if others had gone where I'm about to go!...

Thanks to everyone for the info! I can now go out and save all of the time that would have been wasted to pull the left side cover and Rad... Whew!

Have a great Day!

Hey Bigguy { That did not sound so good } { Ha-Ha }, did you do this job yet and if so what were your results??? ;) Joe ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Hi Shaw351c,
The job went quite well and took about one hour to complete. A few changes were required on the process as the Cobra fatty bars got in the way. With the bars installed the rad would not move out far enough to allow the starter to clear out the front.

With the rad mounts removed and the rad hanging on the hoses, I was able easily reach in and disconnect the starter feed wire and remove the mounting bolts.

In order to get enough clearance to slide the starter out I then removed the rt side engine triangle mounting plate (one cross bolt and the two bolts into the frame which were also accessible with the rad hanging) and this provided a perfect size hole to slide the starter out the right side. I cleaned up the armature and installed the new brushes and the starter slipped right back into the drive gear and best of all worked perfectly.
I did not have to remove the left side case as listed in the manual.

The information listed on the forum saved me draining the coolant and splitting the case which would have added another two or three hours to the time required to do the job.

Thanks Again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the followup on this job so when I need to do it someday now I have the knowledge for an easy time, my original problem was somewhere but after the ground fix, starter button cleaning and battery replacement my bike is running great. This board has been a great place since I stumbled onto it while doing a search for "VTX", I have learned things here and have helped many members with projects on thier own bikes. I have been with the NH VTX RIDERS for a few years now and next sunday we are having a tech day at a members house and are expecting over 30 bikes for maintenance & upgrades. ;) Joe ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
There was a recent post (may still be going on, led turn signal question) about starter problems, and in the middle was this write up (which I saved for future reference);


OK I finally found my problem and fixed it. Short story: It was a bad STARTER.
Long story: I tried all the suggestions - THANKS GUYS! I traced my problem to a suspected starter problem, and I ordered one from Hal. Honda had it on backorder for fricken forever so I just recently received it.
Removal/Installation? Well let's just say you won't do it by the book. No way it'll come out by following Honda's Service Manual with the engine in the frame - no way. You can easily get it lose, but it won't go anywhere. (You MAY be able to snake it out if you remove the upper motor mount bracket, but I didn't try it because I couldn't get to the starter wire.) The trick is to remove the bottom radiator hose and the bottom two bolts holding the radiator to the frame. Leave the top radiator hose and top radiator bolt connected (heck I needed to change the fluid anyways). Loosen nothing else (no wiring, no fan motor, no radiator frame pieces, nothing.). This will give you plenty of room to remove the starter wire and get the starter out the front of the frame (without scratching the frame cross member).
EDIT FROM A LATER POST:
Also, I found an easier way to get to your starter (the wire or to remove the starter entirely). Don't follow the manual - it won't work (not enough room). Previously I wrote to remove the bottom mounting bolts and disconnect the bottom radiator hose, leaving the radiator to hang from the single top bolt. Well, its even easier to just unbolt the bottom and top bolts (without disconnecting any hoses) and let the radiator hang from the hoses. This creates enough room to remove the starter wires and starter without the coolant mess.
END EDIT
Note the Honda Manual tells you to remove the "starter drive gear". Well, that means taking off the left hand crankcase cover (and I don't mean just the decorative chrome cover in the center - I mean opening the case.) Well, there is no need to do that (unless you want to check - the torque limiter, starter drive gear, and/or bearings - I didn't.) The starter will come lose (and reinstall) just fine with the torque limiter gear in place. I stabbed it back in the first try - no problem.
OK with the old starter out, I took it apart to check it out. The commutator bars were excessively black, in my opinion - all of them uniformly. Not wiped with rings of discoloration or scratches, but pitch black everywhere the brushes contacted them. I cleaned them up with Tarn-X (and a lot of scrubbing) to look like new. Everything else checked out fine (everything), except there was NO continuity between the commutator bars and the armature shaft - nothing on any of them. I've concluded I have an open short per page 18-7 of Honda's Service Manual. This appears to be a ground back to the engine/frame/battery. Apparently, there is some flow elsewhere when the starter is engaged, but not enough to turn the engine over.
Anyway, the new starter (the one last thing I changed) SCREAMS that engine to life. No lugging, no slow starts, no intermittent problems, nothing - it screams alive so fast I can hardly tell the starter engages. Quite a contrast from before. It even started that fast after the bike sat on PepsX's bike stand for months (and it never fell over ) - i.e. with lower battery voltage.
So there you have it. My problem solved. If you are experiencing similar problems - check all your wiring and starter relay first. The starter costs $90.00.
End of posting by Todd2

Hope this helps...

Chuck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
thank you it was the starter after changing battery( lithium expensive but 540 CC) ... and relay..
the starter was the problem.. did take the bolts of radiator and it was a jiffy.
thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
There was a recent post (may still be going on, led turn signal question) about starter problems, and in the middle was this write up (which I saved for future reference);


OK I finally found my problem and fixed it. Short story: It was a bad STARTER.
Long story: I tried all the suggestions - THANKS GUYS! I traced my problem to a suspected starter problem, and I ordered one from Hal. Honda had it on backorder for fricken forever so I just recently received it.
Removal/Installation? Well let's just say you won't do it by the book. No way it'll come out by following Honda's Service Manual with the engine in the frame - no way. You can easily get it lose, but it won't go anywhere. (You MAY be able to snake it out if you remove the upper motor mount bracket, but I didn't try it because I couldn't get to the starter wire.) The trick is to remove the bottom radiator hose and the bottom two bolts holding the radiator to the frame. Leave the top radiator hose and top radiator bolt connected (heck I needed to change the fluid anyways). Loosen nothing else (no wiring, no fan motor, no radiator frame pieces, nothing.). This will give you plenty of room to remove the starter wire and get the starter out the front of the frame (without scratching the frame cross member).
EDIT FROM A LATER POST:
Also, I found an easier way to get to your starter (the wire or to remove the starter entirely). Don't follow the manual - it won't work (not enough room). Previously I wrote to remove the bottom mounting bolts and disconnect the bottom radiator hose, leaving the radiator to hang from the single top bolt. Well, its even easier to just unbolt the bottom and top bolts (without disconnecting any hoses) and let the radiator hang from the hoses. This creates enough room to remove the starter wires and starter without the coolant mess.
END EDIT
Note the Honda Manual tells you to remove the "starter drive gear". Well, that means taking off the left hand crankcase cover (and I don't mean just the decorative chrome cover in the center - I mean opening the case.) Well, there is no need to do that (unless you want to check - the torque limiter, starter drive gear, and/or bearings - I didn't.) The starter will come lose (and reinstall) just fine with the torque limiter gear in place. I stabbed it back in the first try - no problem.
OK with the old starter out, I took it apart to check it out. The commutator bars were excessively black, in my opinion - all of them uniformly. Not wiped with rings of discoloration or scratches, but pitch black everywhere the brushes contacted them. I cleaned them up with Tarn-X (and a lot of scrubbing) to look like new. Everything else checked out fine (everything), except there was NO continuity between the commutator bars and the armature shaft - nothing on any of them. I've concluded I have an open short per page 18-7 of Honda's Service Manual. This appears to be a ground back to the engine/frame/battery. Apparently, there is some flow elsewhere when the starter is engaged, but not enough to turn the engine over.
Anyway, the new starter (the one last thing I changed) SCREAMS that engine to life. No lugging, no slow starts, no intermittent problems, nothing - it screams alive so fast I can hardly tell the starter engages. Quite a contrast from before. It even started that fast after the bike sat on PepsX's bike stand for months (and it never fell over ) - i.e. with lower battery voltage.
So there you have it. My problem solved. If you are experiencing similar problems - check all your wiring and starter relay first. The starter costs $90.00.
End of posting by Todd2

Hope this helps...

Chuck
Thanks for all your tips, now, time to DIY work ✌
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top