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As you know Hark the Stage 2 can include either a torque or a power cam. I chose the torque because I don't ride at the speed or the rpm's where the power cam begins to deliver its advantages. So you may be on to something, with a power cam it could very well give an X a run for its money. Mine peaks well before that I think.
Yeah, even with my stock cams and stage 1, it's got much more punch down low and short shifting gets the most out of it, with the intake, exhaust and tune I have in it. Given the choice I would absolutely make the same choice as you for a torque cam as opposed to something you have to milk to get the most out of. It's all about the daily ride as opposed to something that you can race. I've been contemplating cams, but am hesitant to tear into the cam chest, and I insist on doing the work myself. I'm pretty happy the way it is now. Your FB is a bit sportier than my geezer glide.
 

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Your FB is a bit sportier than my geezer glide.


Different animals. But I'd be happy with my FB, your Glide, or my X. Or a few others for that matter, as long as I am on a dependable bike that I can ride in my naturally sedate way then I'm smiling and enjoying myself. But by the time I sold my X I had nine years worth of "stuff" on it and didn't want to take any of it off. As a result I added probably north of 100lbs to it and it became too unwieldy for my bad knee. I do like the fact that my FB has all the power of my X, seemingly more torque and is such that I don't have any "need" or desire to add accessories to it. Even in its minimalistic state I enjoy it tremendously, both while on and off it.

I went looking to possibly trade it in on a Road King but didn't like the numbers they were willing to give me. At this point I'm glad I didn't. And also glad that I didn't actually test ride one. If I had I may have done a deal anyway, and put myself right back onto a heavier bike. I "settled" for the Stage 1 and 2 on my FB instead. The bike is now truly a beast.
 

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No worries, you'll pass him at the next Harley repair shop.
Check back with him when he has 150,000 on it with only routine maintenance, if it is still around. LOL

Truthfully, after 140,000 miles on my 1300 when on a long trip riding on the open interstate I have only had 3 Harleys pass me and stay ahead of me for very many miles, maybe the vibrations, I don't know. One was an Ultra with the Stage 3, 4, 5, 10 or whatever. It was an awesome motorcycle. I think he might have given a Corvette ZR1 a good run.

I like their looks and sound.
 
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This may be like comparing oranges to apples but it's all fruit. Two months ago I demo'd a roadmaster with the 116 at a local rally, I was very dissatisfied with the way it ran. Bad low end hesitation,dead spot. I thought it was running out of gas. I told the Indian guy about it,he rode it, when he came back I asked him what's wrong with it. He told me it's got a stage two cam in it. I asked if it could be tuned so it's more ridable, he said "You have to throttle up and feather the clutch." Really? On a new $30,000 bike, a touring bike, who would want that bike and to have to ride it like that? Stop and go traffic would be a nightmare. I'm all about high performance but that, to me, was like hopping up a luxury car so that it's not streetable. If I were to modify that kind of bike it would be to make it more comfortable. Faster is ok but not at the expense of low end. The extended reach is another story. Not for me. It made the center of gravity all wrong. That with bad hesitation made for a not so good ride.
 

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Hell if your just looking to race Harleys just buy a Triumph Rocket. They are increasing from 2300 cc's to 2500 cc's engine and the price only went up another $10000
 

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This may be like comparing oranges to apples but it's all fruit. Two months ago I demo'd a roadmaster with the 116 at a local rally, I was very dissatisfied with the way it ran. Bad low end hesitation,dead spot. I thought it was running out of gas. I told the Indian guy about it,he rode it, when he came back I asked him what's wrong with it. He told me it's got a stage two cam in it. I asked if it could be tuned so it's more ridable, he said "You have to throttle up and feather the clutch." Really? On a new $30,000 bike, a touring bike, who would want that bike and to have to ride it like that? Stop and go traffic would be a nightmare. I'm all about high performance but that, to me, was like hopping up a luxury car so that it's not streetable. If I were to modify that kind of bike it would be to make it more comfortable. Faster is ok but not at the expense of low end. The extended reach is another story. Not for me. It made the center of gravity all wrong. That with bad hesitation made for a not so good ride.

The Stage 2 for HD uses either a torque cam or a horsepower cam. Owner's choice. Other than what I've seen on dyno results I have no experience with the horsepower cam. I do know that the benefits of that start coming on the high end while the benefits of the torque cam start on the lower, and then plateau up to about 4500 revs. But also on the torque cam it was touted to make it unnecessary to downshift to pass, even on the freeway. I can attest to that, it's true. And there is no hesitation anywhere on my bike with this torque cam. From 2K upwards you twist the wick and the bike responds instantly. It did before too but not as dramatically as it does now. It immediately pulls very hard from low rpms up to and beyond where I'm comfortable riding, to approximately 4500.


If I had to guess I'd say the Indian was not tuned properly, needs a different map.
 

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:agree:


You are likely talking about available SE cams. There are more cams available for Harleys than there are for small block Chevys ... LOL. There are cams available for everything in between what you describe as well as there are many interpretations of what suits perfectly, and there are cam profiles available that will show moderate gains almost entirely across the board.


This was, IMO, part of what really hurts the Japanese cruiser sales. Had Honda built their engine to be able to benefit from such improvements, likely the aftermarket would have been far more prevalent, and buyers more likely to consider a Japanese cruiser. With the VTX in particular, better head design, possibly 4 valve heads, and a better intake system could have leveraged some quick bolt-ons and easy add-ons, to show some real horsepower gains. It's unfortunate they don't like to see their engines molested like that.
 

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Yes, factory SE cams. There are of course many aftermarket cams available from a variety of sources. But with HD's adherence to the EPA being strictly to the letter these days, it is almost impossible to get them to allow aftermarket parts that will not void the warranty. This is a very contentious issue as you know, but they void many warranties for this and essentially tell the owners to meet them in court over it.
 

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Yes, factory SE cams. There are of course many aftermarket cams available from a variety of sources. But with HD's adherence to the EPA being strictly to the letter these days, it is almost impossible to get them to allow aftermarket parts that will not void the warranty. This is a very contentious issue as you know, but they void many warranties for this and essentially tell the owners to meet them in court over it.
That's smart as long as it's under warranty. And replacing cams with anything aftermarket can definitely void your warranty, no matter what the vehicle. Likely it's a good choice for you either way. Nothing wrong with the SE cams offered.
 

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I've read posts of people that believe that the HD cams are not as good as others but personally I don't see how I could happier than I am with what I ended up with. It's an adventure each time out with it. And it lopes nicely :)
 

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I've read posts of people that believe that the HD cams are not as good as others but personally I don't see how I could happier than I am with what I ended up with. It's an adventure each time out with it. And it lopes nicely :)
Ultimately it depends on what you are looking for. HD engineers aren't stupid and choose the best of all compromises, and every choice is all about compromise when it comes to can profiles. In the end they want it to be conservative enough to make a difference while still offering the best rideability, reliability and fuel mileage. They are conservative choices, as far as I know anyway, but there's more to can profiles than dyno results. Keeping the bike fun to ride is important as well. That's why the aftermarket has so many different grinds. It's all about perception and wants and needs. For the TC anyway, some aftermarket cams are very difficult to tune and be fun to ride.
 

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Wow. Ten thousand dollars sounds like a very high price to pay for an extra 200 cubic centimeters. No thanks.
Tearing into a very expensive new motorcycle's engine that has already been well engineered. Is it worth the risk tampering into something that is reliable. Are you smarter than the engineers that built it. What if your are not happy with the results. While the Honda V-Twin line was popular no aftermarket cams or pistons parts were available, I'm not sure if anybody made them, maybe it was for the best. All I ever did to my Honda is change oil and filter. I'm still riding today trouble free , if it ain't broke don't mess with it.
 

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All of the 96, 103 and 110 HD's around here have played second fiddle to my VTX at one time or another, but I've never toyed with one of the Milwaukee Eights before. I am impressed with this one, a 114, and I think all of the RG Specials are 114. It's possible that this bike has had some extras done to it, but I know it looks stock. The only noticeable difference is the riders, he is probably 120 LB wet, while I am a tad over 300 #, I don't know how much difference that makes. Wish there was something I could blame it on but I think my X just met it's match.:surprise:
HUGE difference right there. How would he do with a 180 lb passenger to even out the weight lol
 

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Hell if your just looking to race Harleys just buy a Triumph Rocket. They are increasing from 2300 cc's to 2500 cc's engine and the price only went up another $10000
Hell, just get an old Yami V-Max for $5K or M109R
 

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Hell, just get an old Yami V-Max for $5K or M109R
The new Rocket3 is at 169hp and 163 ft/lbs torque. An M109R could only hope. A V-Max would need to be of a more recent vintage and then it's breaking a real sweat. The new Rocket3 gives new meaning to the term "beast". Even Ducati's Diavel would have a tough time. Maybe Leroy's 1300 ;)


$10,000 isn't just for an extra 200cc, there's a lot more to the new 2020 model than that. Not for everyone though and certainly not for every budget. I'd like to own one, but I wouldn't pay the asking price for it. Way to rich for my wallet.
 
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