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Discussion Starter #1
Background ... older rider here 65 y/o ... used to ride "all" the time up until 3-4 years ago, just kinda went HD (as I tell my Harley friends) meaning I only ride when it's warm, dry, daytime only ... LOL... but I've earned my 1,500 extreme IBA ride and a couple of the shorter rides w/IBA...

so, my bike had been sitting for about 6 months on a battery tender... figured I'd better use it / lose it ... changed the oil, new non-ethanol gas (even though it was stored with that in tank), checked the PC3 map to make sure it was still loaded ... went to start ... nothing ... replaced the 2 - 30A on left side cover (not blown - but the contacts looked a light brown (coke color) ... replaced .. cranked up ... ran fine...

got back parked, a few days later .. nothing ... fuel pump silent ...

checked fuses again... all good ... battery charged ... PC3 getting power led lights run up and down the +/- fuel scale

Alright so just need some help with some things I know I need to check and I also have a pic of a "loose" plug very near ECM ...

1. exactly where is the fuel pump relay ? I believe under right side cover ? seems there are 3 "boxes" there ... two have rubber covers far left, center and then another "box" on the right ...
2. specifically how do I by pass the fuel relay and run power straight to fuel pump

3. I "discovered" a plug very close to the ECM that is loose ... its the female end, hard black plastic, green w/silver dashes, and a brown w/silver ... I've got to believe this "has" to be the issue but for the life of me I can't find a matching male plug to match ??? !!! Maybe it's "always" been there ...maybe when the PC3 was installed ?

Alright ... any help is greatly appreciated

Thanks

David
 

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That is the diagnostics plug and should be loose.


The above link will explain that plug and it's use.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That is the diagnostics plug and should be loose.


The above link will explain that plug and it's use.
crazy I"ve never noticed that - guess it was tucked down under all wiring and with me checking all I uncovered it

Thanks for the reply and into
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Kill switch in the OFF position???

Yep... have tested kill switch, kick stand safety switch...

I have not checked the lean angle, but bike has not been leaned over any further than kick stand angle ... LOL unless because it's been on the kickstand for a long time it's got stuck, etc haha
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Is the red FI light on your dash coming on then timing out when you turn on the key?
turn key on ... all lights work... they all stay on for a few seconds and all go off except for the green neutral and red oil light ... seems normal
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the info and quick replies.

Just think I'm down to trying to power fuel pump direct from battery and bypass the fuel pump relay

At this point hopefully just the relay ... my luck not... probably fuel pump has died ! Maybe not ?

Okay so where (exactly- how marked, etc ) is the fuel pump relay ? Right side cover correct ?

any suggestions on "how to" bypass fuel pump relay to determine if the pump itself will work ?

Thanks again !
 

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The FP Relay has Two Black/White wires on it.
Solid Brown wire goes to the FP.
Brown/Black is the ECM wire that puts a Ground to the FP relay to energize the relay.
In the Service Manual the FP test has killed the ECM output transistor a few times when
the incorrect wire was selected.
You can disconnect the FP relay and jumper a wire from Bl/W to solid Brown wire. The PC3 installation removes the Black connector from the ECM. The FP relay Br/Bl wire is on that Black connector. Look at that Brown/Black wire and see if it goes to the PC3. It could be causing the lack of FP relay activity.
Some PC3 have expired... There are a few items in the 1800 Step by Step board. 1800 diagrams for Charging, Starting and FI system
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The FP Relay has Two Black/White wires on it.
Solid Brown wire goes to the FP.
Brown/Black is the ECM wire that puts a Ground to the FP relay to energize the relay.
In the Service Manual the FP test has killed the ECM output transistor a few times when
the incorrect wire was selected.
You can disconnect the FP relay and jumper a wire from Bl/W to solid Brown wire. The PC3 installation removes the Black connector from the ECM. The FP relay Br/Bl wire is on that Black connector. Look at that Brown/Black wire and see if it goes to the PC3. It could be causing the lack of FP relay activity.
Some PC3 have expired... There are a few items in the 1800 Step by Step board. 1800 diagrams for Charging, Starting and FI system
Hans --- thanks so much ... yep narrowed down the fuel pump relay based on wiring info you provided
Have fam coming over so may not get a chance to follow through with your instructions today ...

But let me ask one other question ...
There is a plug under tank that goes directly to fuel pump ... right ? would it be possible to jumper wire from battery positive side to positive side of this plug - ground other side of plug and shouldn't that activate fuel pump ? second part of that question ... positive side of plug under tank ? any idea the color of wire ? PS - send me your address and I"ll send you a check for your time, help and patience ! LOL... providing I can afford your labor/knowledge

Seriously, thank you very much ... totally understand if you don't have time on this ...

Thanks. David.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hans --- thanks so much ... yep narrowed down the fuel pump relay based on wiring info you provided
Have fam coming over so may not get a chance to follow through with your instructions today ...

But let me ask one other question ...
There is a plug under tank that goes directly to fuel pump ... right ? would it be possible to jumper wire from battery positive side to positive side of this plug - ground other side of plug and shouldn't that activate fuel pump ? second part of that question ... positive side of plug under tank ? any idea the color of wire ? PS - send me your address and I"ll send you a check for your time, help and patience ! LOL... providing I can afford your labor/knowledge

Seriously, thank you very much ... totally understand if you don't have time on this ...

Thanks. David.

DANG - Hans can't get a question out and then another question...

Closer observation of fuel pump relay ... black/white wires x 2 confirmed
however ... neither brown wire is a solid brown - both have little spots of silver
1 - brown wire is slightly smaller gauge than the other
 

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Discussion Starter #14
looks like the starter relay and fuel pump relay are same ... I know starter works so I'll swap them out and see if fuel pump activates ...
 

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Ignore the spots. Pay attention to a "Striped" wire.
Solid Brown wire vs Brown/Black stripe. Brown/Black goes to ECM..
You could wire direct to battery but why?? Theft deterrent??

Fuel tank wires: Green is ground for FP and fuel level sensor.
Brown is FP +12v
Brown/Black stripe is fuel sensor lead to the fuel indicator.

Starter Relay is the Relay that activates the Starter Motor.
Engine Stop Relay (ESR) provides +12v to the FI electronics(ECM, Ign Coils, Injectors)
 

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looks like the starter relay and fuel pump relay are same ... I know starter works so I'll swap them out and see if fuel pump activates ...
Swapping the relays won't help. The Engine Stop relay provides power to the fuel pump relay. If your fuel pump relay has failed then no juice to the 2nd relay when you swap.
 

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Both black/white wires are from the same source. Jumping from one to the brown will send power directly to the fuel pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Okay y'all .. between work and all the C19 compounding work issues ... I have just this morning taken time to follow some of y'all instructions ..

Sorry ... but amazing how sometimes you can see things and others not ... but yes ... I did find the brown w/black stripe

avoided it ...

I did use a jumper from one of the black/white wires and the solid brown wire... turned key on ... nothing from the fuel pump

So what's the next step... does this mean it's my fuel pump ?
Or do I need to run a jumper wire direct from batter to + side of fuel pump (under tank) ... to confirm ?

Sorry I've been so slow ... haven't been ignoring y'all advice ... just have had other things going on

Again... all your help is appreciated

Thanks David
 

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Jumper to FP direct to confirm. +12v and Ground.
There have been occasions where FP motor would not run.
A rap on the housing(2nd gen) cleared the problem.
Same FP motor for Gen1 and Gen2.
Remove rear tank bolt, lift tank and hit FP cover with a screwdriver handle.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Okay ... wired straight from batter to fuel pump wires ... fuel pump said nothing ...

now granted i just plugged two naked ends of wiring into fp plug under tank to fp
and then held the wiring hard against + - terminals on battery ... but should have been enough contact ... tested against light bulb and light came on to insure enough pressure to make contact

I didn't consider the bank/lean angle sensor ... bike has been on kick stand for a while, but it did crank and run fine .. just stopped ...

then I began all the trouble shooting

will probably purchase just the pump as opposed to the whole fp assembly ? Do you all suggest that or should I replace the whole device/assembly ?

Thanks again for more advice.

David
 
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