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Not a Harley, but we have a 96' diesel suburban that came new with an oil cooler on it. I know some guys on the diesel forum that do, and recommend doing, disconnecting and draining the oil cooler and lines during oil changes to get that extra quart or two of dirty oil drained but I have never done it. The connections are really difficult to get to and it's way too dirty of a job and I never wanted to risk creating a leak that I didn't have on the cooler or line connectors. GMC doesn't recommend it anywhere in the manual but a lot of guys that still have these things preach doing it. Similar situation on purging the MC engine I think.
 

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I'm not sure, if I'd do that, but used oil in a diesel engine is much more dirty and contaminated, so I understand them.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Basic model without the tech.

I think to some degree all of the new electronics and fluff is to the detriment of marketing. All of this wizz-bang high tech costs money. These bikes already cost enough. I wonder if they offered a stripped down basic model, at a proportionate price, if they might realize that most people don't want to pay extra for a lot of this tech. Unfortunately they make basic models less appealing by making the price dis-proportionate to features. They, of course, want to sell the loaded models.
 

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I guess. The StreetGlide comes in at about $3K more so that seems about right. I think they'd sell a lot more of the basic models and more bikes altogether if they marketed it at <$17K instead of >$18K but that's just my opinion. But then I guess you could make your own StreetGlide for less than the $22K they want for one off the floor.
 

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I'm disappointed. Well and truly. You need only cast a mild aspersion at the Harley Davison brand and blokes from 200 miles away come rushing in fists clenched. Its like dangling an old piece of bait near a sucker fish. Whoosh, here they come! For 7 years now almost anyone I don't know has bagged the guts out of my VTX (and also me, because, if I was a man I wouldn't ride that ****) What is it, or have I not seen the contract you sign when you buy a Harley that says you must defend the brand to your death. The Harley riders here are intelligent blokes but still that need to defend the brand. Lets stop justifying what we ride and just get the wind in our faces.
P.S. Ive had some grand times on a company supplied Suzuki FA 50 stepthrough and not too ashamed to admit it.
 

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I'm disappointed. Well and truly. You need only cast a mild aspersion at the Harley Davison brand and blokes from 200 miles away come rushing in fists clenched. Its like dangling an old piece of bait near a sucker fish. Whoosh, here they come! For 7 years now almost anyone I don't know has bagged the guts out of my VTX (and also me, because, if I was a man I wouldn't ride that ****) What is it, or have I not seen the contract you sign when you buy a Harley that says you must defend the brand to your death. The Harley riders here are intelligent blokes but still that need to defend the brand. Lets stop justifying what we ride and just get the wind in our faces.
P.S. Ive had some grand times on a company supplied Suzuki FA 50 stepthrough and not too ashamed to admit it.
To you it seems like puffery, but it's really just setting the record straight. Misinformation is misinformation. It's not about defending anything. I owned a KLR650 for some time, if someone feels, incorrectly, that that bike is a pile, then I'd be happy to set the record straight, not because I owned one, but because I know better. Anyone who feels the VTX was junk, I'd again, be happy to set the record straight ... because I know better. I'm not sure why there are Harley riders out there that are so rabid about the brand they would disparage others without knowing better. Of course the same holds for the riders of any other brand as well. Why would someone riding a Honda disparage Harley without any knowledge of what they speak of? Insecurity? If anyone taking a poke at another brand is simply trolling ... as you suggest, well then I took the bait. But only because I felt someone was misinformed. Frankly I could care less if someone likes or dislikes the brand, but no need to spread lies.



I will ask as a retort, why does it bother you so that anyone would defend any brand over another? Would it bother you if someone defended Honda to a Harley rider? Should it then bother you that someone defends Harley to a Honda rider?
 

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They sure do ask a lot of money for such an ugly bike! But then, it's not like it's a Honda. Now that they're made in China, and Hondas are made in Ohio, Can we officially class Harleys as "Rice burners"??
 

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I think they misunderstand when they buy the model with the "Deluxe Package", and become bitter and disappointed when they find that it's just stuff on the motorcycle, and doesn't change their personal physical appearance at all. :-D
 

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The proof, as they say, is in the putting. As a retired truck driver, I've been up and down lots of highways in lots of different places in the country; From the Southwest, to the Northeast. And I can truthfully say, I've seen more Harley/Davidsons in the backs of trailers than any other brand.
I've known many Harley owners in the past 50 years, and they seem to spend the majority of their time fixing or replacing something. On the other hand, I've also known many Honda owners, and they park the bikes in the winter, and ride them in the summer.
So, from many years of observation, I'll stick with Honda. My '95 Aspencade has 86,000 miles on it, and my VTX 1800 has over 50,000 on it. Both run like tops with just basic maintenance, and a few new tires every once in a while.
 

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They sure do ask a lot of money for such an ugly bike! But then, it's not like it's a Honda. Now that they're made in China, and Hondas are made in Ohio, Can we officially class Harleys as "Rice burners"??
This is what I mean about misinformation. Honda hasn't made a bike in the US since June 2009 when they moved Goldwing production back to Japan. It's fine if you want to make a point, but you should know what you're talking about.
 

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I will ask as a retort, why does it bother you so that anyone would defend any brand over another? Would it bother you if someone defended Honda to a Harley rider? Should it then bother you that someone defends Harley to a Honda rider?[/QUOTE]
Over the years I've realised people (me included) are opinionated, and while Harley riders rant on about my bike being made in Japan I just smile and nod, as there is no way you can change their mind. We are all, to a point emotionally driven and facts sometimes come second place. In the groups I ride with regularly, you can rag the BMW (bring my wallet) riders, or the KTM(keep throwing money) boys, and it all good natured fun. Dare say out loud that a Harley is perhaps, maybe, not the top of the motorcycle tree, and the brand ALL other riders aspire to one day own and watch ya back! In saying this I have several friends who are Harley owners who can take and give a ribbing so, no, not all have signed the secret contract. Whatever you ride, just enjoy!
 

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I will ask as a retort, why does it bother you so that anyone would defend any brand over another? Would it bother you if someone defended Honda to a Harley rider? Should it then bother you that someone defends Harley to a Honda rider?
Over the years I've realised people (me included) are opinionated, and while Harley riders rant on about my bike being made in Japan I just smile and nod, as there is no way you can change their mind. We are all, to a point emotionally driven and facts sometimes come second place. In the groups I ride with regularly, you can rag the BMW (bring my wallet) riders, or the KTM(keep throwing money) boys, and it all good natured fun. Dare say out loud that a Harley is perhaps, maybe, not the top of the motorcycle tree, and the brand ALL other riders aspire to one day own and watch ya back! In saying this I have several friends who are Harley owners who can take and give a ribbing so, no, not all have signed the secret contract. Whatever you ride, just enjoy!
I understand, what you are saying. I think, most or too many of the Harley owners think, if you have a different brand, but similar bike, the only reason is that you can't afford a Harley, but one day if you "can" grow up to them, you will buy one. This is because their brand is superior to the others. If you disagree, you can go to hell... You are a lesser person anyway, because you can't afford a Harley, per their thinking... And how a lesser person dare to offend their superior brand and its superior owner?
Personally, I don't like the look of most of the Harleys or if I like one, there is a over all better looking, similar bike from an other manufacturer. The only exception was the VROD. Almost bought one, but after the test ride, I chose not to...

O. K., now we succesfully turned this thread to Harley owners vs. the "others" debate.
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
O. K., now we succesfully turned this thread to Harley owners vs. the "others" debate.
There has always been a resentment, hatred and anger against Harley-Davidson. The main reason has always been because of the high prices of the bikes, service, parts, apparel and clothing. I think people don't hate the motorcycles itself, but the way Harley markets the bikes. When you walk into a Harley shop first thing you notice is all the bikes have no price tags. This is done to put in your mind if you really want one of these bikes they are out of reach from you and its gonna cost you to get one. Sure you know there are other brands out there that cost less and are more reliable, but Harley wants you to think there's something special about the bikes, there so popular everybody wants one and you'll become part of the family. The way Harley has always been able to get full retail price has to do with financing gimmicks and tricking the loan notes numbers with longer loan terms that are fooling poorer people into getting a Harley.
 

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Harley Davidson is definitely a lot less bike for a lot more money....period. They've had their share of mechanical issues too but all that aside, I get much more bang for my buck with a Honda. LOVE my VTX.
 

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I think wealthy yuppies have taken over the Harley crowd and Harley dealers sure like them.. They buy all the matching garb and think a ride is going to a "Biker Bar" several miles from where they live, They sure do like the poker runs, which do help people in need. This is just me talking , but I do have a couple friends that do that.
 

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Honestly, it’s not the bikes or dealers, it’s (some of the) d!(#head owners that are the biggest turnoff to the brand.
Secondhand bike prices have dropped so far, really if you want one, you can get one.
Myself , absolutely no interest. I already have the X for cruising and a new Valk (paid for) for touring.
 

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Friend just got a 17 Electri glide Screaming Eagle with 550 miles for 22.5K. new they 42.5K. Buyers market now..
 

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Well Gentlemen, I believe it is personal preference. I started out riding a Harley when they were Italian. The Harley Leggero (small street bike). Bought a Hodaka (small dirt bike). Bought a Suzuki 650GL, Yamaha 750 Virago, Susuki 1500LC, Honda VTX 1300C, and now my Honda VTX 1800F. I enjoyed riding and working on all of them. Personally, the reason I have not purchased a Harley is because whenever I have gone shopping for a bike. I was treated like someone not worthy to even be asked if I needed help or what kind of bike I was looking to purchase. I believe Harley makes a good motorcycle. I can't afford a new Lincoln with all the new gadgets and creature comforts. I can afford a Honda with all the creature comforts. One last thought... I wanted to check. This is still a Honda VTX Owners Association correct? Not suggesting we only have to speak or discuss Honda
 

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Some of you guys are stereotyping far more than you should. Others are speaking of attitudes that once existed and now not nearly as much. I've dealt with my share of opinionated HD riders (or their women) but these days you won't hear anything about rice burners or HD Americanism from the vast majority of HD owners because they well know that their bikes are a conglomeration of parts from all parts of the globe. And that whole subsets of components even use metric fasteners. Also the idea that yuppies are what's changed the views is as opinionated as anything a dyed in the wool (ie rabid), HD fanatic ever spewed. And then, not all HD owners have the HD branded clothing, gear etc. I have absolutely no HD branded clothing or gear. And there are many who don't buy into that mindset. I'd venture to say that the most HD-centric minded people you would run across these days are either certain 1%'ers, or those who don't even own a bike, ie posers.

And finally, in every thread like this that I've seen in my time here I see the same attitudes that we used to see from HD riders, coming from Honda riders here, but in reverse. Who gives a rat's azz what someone rides? Not anyone I know. Is there a perfect bike out there? Not likely. Are HD's overpriced? To some yes, to others no. The market dictates what prices can be charged. I bought my brand new '05 VTX Spec 2 S as a holdover in '07, for a 33% discount. Why? Because Honda was asking more for it than the public was willing to pay in '05, or '07. Overpriced Honda? Yep. Can you go into any largish Honda dealership and find brand new models that are years past their manufacture date? Yep. Do HD and other brands fall into the same trap? Yep. Is there that much of a difference between these two brands, OR their owners these days? Not in my opinion. But to think that we can paint HD riders, (or bikes), with the same brush that we could years ago is behind the times, and mistaken. And clearly illustrates that there is really very little difference between "them" and "us".
 

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Meh.


I think that many of the new ones are ugly, and so we bought this "leftover" Heritage Softail. Not all that happy with the 2020 models, either. Here's our 103 with ABS and electronic cruise control.







and our 2015






Now, I don't have an opinion of the Electra Glide models. Not my preference. THOSE might be the cat's meow - I don't know.


I wanted another Dyna. Yes, I know they're actually a "softail" now - and I have to say that they look cheap. I mean - what's up with that el cheapo gas tank ? Looks like they took it off of that 500cc model.


OK, off my soap box now


Please, continue.
 
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