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https://m.saks.com/pd.jsp?site_refer=CSE_GGLPLA:Mens_Pants:Balmain&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=CjwKCAjwtajrBRBVEiwA8w2Q8F7gwwCX-nMWINa1qu_E594lLomW9vrgRbu1C12gbmb7DlmLFD5hFRoCAW4QAvD_BwE&productCode=0400095294515

People are buying 1300 dollar "biker" Jean's, doesn't mean they're not over priced, only that there are some fools willing to pay that much.
It doesn't mean those not buying them can't afford them.
Secondly, HD is laying off workers and closing factories, can't be doing that great.
In that context, "overpriced" is an emotional evaluation, and is opinion, as it is not a fact / reality for everyone.


None of the bike manufacturers are doing exceptionally well, that's a sign of the times. HD isn't on a high currently, that is a fact.


As always Donnie ... a ray of sunshine /forums/images/VTXOA_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png
Do you own Jean's like that. If not, why?
They clearly MUST be better than Levi's, they cost so much more.
 

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Do you own Jean's like that. If not, why?
They clearly MUST be better than Levi's, they cost so much more.
I don't, I cannot afford such jeans. I cannot afford a Maserati either, but I can afford a Ford. See where this is going?


Actually I lied, I can afford such jeans, however I'm not prepared to give up what I must to justify the expenditure. Whether or not $1500 jeans are "better" than $60 jeans is irrelevant. An item is "worth" whatever someone is prepared to pay for it. Those jeans are marketed to people who shop at Saks Fifth Avenue. That's not me. They are not "over priced" to, at least some in, that demography. Ergo, overpriced is an individual opinion as it is not a universal truth as applied to this discussion anyway.
 

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My only experience with Harley is when I rented a Road Glide here in Tucson years ago. Disappointed, surprised me. It was the feel of acceleration. Vtx had a rumble or grunt, or a solid feeling. Can't really explain what I am trying to say. The Harley had an ok sound, but it was like the motor was spinning. More of a thin sound. Maybe Harkon can explain this difference since he owns both.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
https://m.saks.com/pd.jsp?site_refer=CSE_GGLPLA:Mens_Pants:Balmain&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=CjwKCAjwtajrBRBVEiwA8w2Q8F7gwwCX-nMWINa1qu_E594lLomW9vrgRbu1C12gbmb7DlmLFD5hFRoCAW4QAvD_BwE&productCode=0400095294515

People are buying 1300 dollar "biker" Jean's, doesn't mean they're not over priced, only that there are some fools willing to pay that much.
It doesn't mean those not buying them can't afford them.
Secondly, HD is laying off workers and closing factories, can't be doing that great.
Harley rarely ever discounts the price of the bike itself. They only use sales gimmicks on the financing, maybe a store gift card or some maintenance service. They won't discount a bike to save there life.
 

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My only experience with Harley is when I rented a Road Glide here in Tucson years ago. Disappointed, surprised me. It was the feel of acceleration. Vtx had a rumble or grunt, or a solid feeling. Can't really explain what I am trying to say. The Harley had an ok sound, but it was like the motor was spinning. More of a thin sound. Maybe Harkon can explain this difference since he owns both.
I don't own my VTX anymore, but I really miss it. I did really like that bike. The 1800 has an entirely different cadence so it's tough to compare. With the right exhaust any HD big twin sounds better than the 1800. I think, though, that it's all about the exhaust you choose. The Honda engine and transmission seemed more "precise" than the Harley setup, where the Harley feels more "visceral" IMO. At speed, the Harley is a smoother, more comfortable ride. At idle the Honda engine was way smoother. I just upgraded the shocks on the HD and there is no comparison for me. Ride position, seat, suspension, the Harley wins there, but it should, it is an intended all-day bike ... and it is. For power ... no comparison with the 103, the 1800 had substantially more power. Vtox has a 114 and he says the HD has better low end torque. He has a new M8 engine so his engine, transmission experience may be slightly different than mine.


Back to the sound though, the VTX can't, for some reason, get that low booming sound you can get from the HD. Might be because HD touring bikes can have a muffler on each side so 4" mufflers are not uncommon, giving the exhaust the volume to lower the note. HD stock exhaust sucks as bad as Honda's stock exhaust for providing a solid exhaust tone.
 

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I always thought out of all the manufacturers, the harley design stayed unchanged the most. They just always looked the same to me....their cruisers, their baggers, etc. I think the japanese manufacturers changed more than any of the others. Or maybe they just looked different to me? As mentioned by someone else, the japanese engineering is light years ahead of everyone. For instance, the new Gold wing is like a sportbike/bagger. I know someone who has one and they told me it's the smoothest tranny ever that rides like a sportbike. They are very sleek/sporty looking to me. But, I did not like that they took storage away. As I get older and consider buying one, especially now that it is the type of riding I want to do most. Not necessarily a deal breaker though. Plus, the dct is awesome (in my opinion). Now they are working on those riding asssist bikes. I am definitely not a honda only man, even though i have mostly owned hondas. Its hard to not be loyal to a company like honda. But, i would definitely consider other ones especially yamaha who I have also read has the best reliability records, as someone mentioned. In my younger days, I always went with hondas cbr line for a sportbike cause their frame fit my frame the best. They were hands down the most comfortable(not fastest) and I'm 5'10. To me $ and design is the HD killer (currently). But, things change. After all, as americans, who wouldn't want HD to be represented as the best motorcycle company in the USA?

One thing about HD though. You gotta love that sound. I have heard numerous bikes that can't touch the HD (my opinion). Music to the ears. But, i would definitely not buy one based on sound. But, on the other hand, Ill never get that screaming deep inline 4 sound that I get from my cbr in an HD. Would I buy an HD now....No. In the future.....maybe. Depends what they do.

In response to the picking up more women in the bars with a harley....You can have the 300 pound heffers :) Ill bring my sexy 13 cbr 1000 and go up to the sexiest ditzy blond college girl in the bar. Ill say "you wanna go for a ride on my bike"? While she is looking at my "race bike" with no passenger seat and as she says yes, Ill tell her "wait here". Then,I come back with my X";)
 

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I ride what I could afford to pay cash for, a new leftover 2014 Yami Tourer.
(Yes, I'm Frugal. (CHEAP!). I see no reason to pay money to borrow money.
Yes, I did take out a loan to buy my house, & I do have credit cards for emergencies.

There were plenty of used bikes, but I prefer to buy new or leftover.

Looked at some used Harley's, along with a few other brands.


All the guys I ride with have Harleys, except 2. 1 has an older Yami 1000, the other has a 4 year old Indian.
Seems to me, nobody has more or fewer issues than anyone else.

I'm just grateful to own and ride a bike of my choice, and also to
allow others the same choice.
 

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HD is going bankrupt. There is no question that without some sort of seismic shift in millennial thinking HD will be gone in about 10 - 20 years. Their sales are declining at an accelerating rate and the are cutting production.


As a pure motorcycle play that’s all you need to know. Sure all bike lines are suffering. Unless HD figures something out they will be gone. Honda has other vehicles at least.

Polaris makes its money on its ATvs. I wonder what HD will produce to stay relevant? Won’t be bikes alone. That ship sailed along time ago.
 

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I ride with a group of 9 riders. All have Harleys. Two just went out and traded for 2020s at the Harley shop. The only modification I had to do to my 1300c was add a handheld CB so they could not talk about me when riding. I have put 55,000 miles on with most of the group. Sure we kid each other but they don't mind what I ride. I tell them that I have to think about what I am going to wear for the ride and all they have to do is find what they have that says Harley Davidson (hats, shirts, coats, etc.) on them. I don't wear a vest with any patches. I collect patches from where we go but just have them in a drawer to remind me where I have been. I am one that believes the value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it. So if you want a HD buy it. I had a couple of the riders I ride with, they do 9,000 mile trips, say that Harley shops are everywhere if you have a problem. That why they picked a Harley. I think they have the Harley fever and won't admit it.
 

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I would get an HD. I just don't like what they have compared to the other manufacturers. Never have. They need to step up their game to make me a customer
 

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HD..isnt worth the time or $$$..to back it up...i would have VTX.or ANYTHING but HD..:nerd:
Haters gotta hate!

I bought a shirt for my wife. It reads, "I support two teams. The Red Sox....and whoever is playing the Yankees". As a lifelong Sox fan I have no problem "hating" the Yankees. >:):grin2: But then, I'd ride anything that would get me where I wanted to go, even a pink Schwinn if it was all that was available. Methinks ole gorgesone would take a Harley and ride it hard if it was offered to him.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
HD..isnt worth the time or $$$..to back it up...i would have VTX.or ANYTHING but HD..:nerd:
Most people when buying any product the human instinct is to get most value for your money because you work hard for your money. A guy that is conservative with his money is more likely to chose a Honda because it is a reliable motorcycle at a much lower price than Harley and Honda is overall a pretty good motorcycle as far as performance and comfort. A guy that is more of a spender with his money is more likely to chose a Harley over a Honda more because of the cool factor and popularity of the motorcycles because there are so many Harleys out there, he ignores the cost factor when getting a Harley.
 

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The electric bike is a non-starter IMHO. millenials are not going to pay a premium for a brand name unless it is super technologically advanced. I think we can all agree that "super technologically advanced" and "Harley Davidson" do not go together...... :D

Someone will have to pick up HD if they can't figure this mess out - they will have no alternative but to agree to being purchased to stay alive. When HD stumbles harder - do you think it is an opportunity for Polaris? What an interesting concept - indian and HD made by the same company. :shock:
 

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Here's where Honda went wrong, thinking people only want a touring bike that is a Goldwing. I don't like the Wing's engine, I want a V-Twin touring bike. They don't make those therefore I had to go elsewhere. As far as the "Honda's are cheaper...." I'll say this again...it depends on what type of bike you're looking at. Cruisers, yep Honda has cheaper models. But touring lines, the Wing is more expensive than the Ultra Classics ;)



PS.....I said this over a decade ago.....if Honda had made a true touring bike out of the VTX platform, I would have owned it. By true tourer I mean, 6 speed trans, cruise control, hard bags and full fairing and touring suspension, radio and GPS and all that. It would have been a great tourer
 
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