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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All,

It is with great sorrow that I have to report a horrible tragedy that happened today. I rode the Geezer Rocket with a group of young guys today. They were all in their 20s and they ride together frequently, at least most of them. I did not know the members of the group, except for one fellow I have ridden with before. There were a total of 11 riders.

We rode from Santa Clarita (Southern California) out the 126 to the 150 to Ojai then the 33 to Lockwood Valley. About 35 miles out of Ojai we were spread out into roughly three groups. The fast guys, the medium guys, and us slower guys.

At about 35 miles the slower group rounded a corner and two from the middle group were on the ground (two bikes, that is). One young guy was on the pavement next to / under his ZX6R. The other guy was nowhere insight. His red CBR1000RR was spun around on the pavement next to the ~24" high stone wall that keeps one from running off the road and down a ~1,500' cliff.

According to a cruiser rider who was near the turn taking a riding break, the fellow (Oscar) on the ZXR6 lost control and hit the retaining wall hard. The second rider, on the CBR1000RR (Fernando), swerved to miss him and hit the retaining wall at an oblique angle and was literally thrown over the wall with his bike staying on the pavement.

The slow group, with me in it, got there a few minutes after the accident. There were several folks on the scene by then. Oscar was conscious but not lucid. He could move his limbs, except for his left arm which was broken. We tried to keep him calm and still until the Paramedics could arrive. He was obviously in shock.

While some stayed with Oscar, several of us looked for Fernando. One of his white shoes was about 150' down the cliff, but we could not spot him.

Fortunately, one cell phone worked!! (Cingular - we were in the mountains and a long way from civilization.) We were able to contact 911. About 25 minutes later help began to arrive. Oscar was still in shock, but moving his legs and right arm. We still could not find Fernando. The cliff was too steep to climb down.

The rescue helicopter showed up at about 30 minutes after the accident happened. They located Fernando about 1,000' down the steep slope from the road. He had 'fallen' at least 200' below road level.

By this time more sheriff officers had arrived along with an ambulance. Oscar was still alive. The Sheriffs made us leave, except for one guy who stayed.

We waited at the Ranger Station for the fellow who stayed. He showed up in about 45 minutes. He said that Oscar had died. Apparently he had severe internal bleeding. Miraculously, Fernando, who had been thrown down the steep cliff, survived. Fernando was taken by helicopter to the Ventura Hospital.

It was a very sad day. Two young men had an awful accident and one did not survive. The other is still in critical condition.

There are some lessons to be learned from this tragedy. The first lesson is the one we all know but sometimes ignore. The two young men in the accident had been riding for only about two months - one on a 600cc race replica and the other on a 1,000cc race replica. Apparently, these were their first motorcycles.

How many people do you know who go out and start motorcycling on very serious street bikes? It doesn't matter if it is a sport bike, sport tourer, or a cruiser. All of these large / high performance bikes can get you in over your head in a heartbeat. It just doesn't make sense to me why anyone would start out on a street bike. There are much safer methods to learn to ride. I am a strong proponent of starting on a dirt bike. Yes, I have known of people getting killed on dirt bikes, but not new riders!!! Out here is SoCal, dirt biking areas are abundant and much safer to start on than a street bike.

The second lesson, as we all preach, is to ride your own ride. The two new riders were riding much too aggressively for their skill level. They were not riding their ride. They were trying to ride the leader's ride.

So, I don't know what to say. In my ~45 years of motorcycling this is by far the very worst thing that has ever happened. I have seen others seriously hurt and killed on the 33, but never anyone I knew (I met Oscar and Fernando this morning).

Finally, please take time out of your Holiday to say a prayer for Oscar and his family and for Fernando and his family. I can not comprehend how their families are going to manage this tragedy.

The guys in the group did not know Oscar or Fernando very well. They did not know who were their next of kin, etc. They had ridden together only a few times. Maybe an 'ICE' (In Case of an Emergency) card in our wallets with family contacts, instructions, etc., is a wise thing to have.

In closing, we all participate in a very dangerous 'sport.' We all have different riding skill levels. Each and everyone of us ride motorcycles which are MUCH MORE CAPABLE than we are. Therefore, each of us are at risk of getting in over our heads.

We have no control over some idiot in a car moving into our lane and hitting us (I still remember Dave and Jim swerving to miss a Corvette who passed another car in a blind curve down in Orange County!!). However, we do have some control over getting in beyond our skill level.

We also need to make sure we are not setting up a less experienced rider with a ride / pace that is beyond their skill level. That is the responsibility of everyone and especially the Road Captain.

If I find out more about this horrible tragedy and the condition of Fernando, I will update this thread. Again, please pray for these two young men and their families.
 

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Really sorry to hear about the accidents. Such a tragedy to lose a rider and have another in critical condition. I personally have been riding for just over 2 years. I have always rode my own ride. I have only been on a few group rides. All of them have been with vtxers from my state. Even while I am in a group I ride my ride and don't push it. If I am not comfortable with how fast they are taking the twisties I slow down and then catch up on the straight aways. I know that if I am ever in a group ride that I am not comfortable in I can easily just leave the group and go on my own.
Prayers for all the families and friends involved in this tragedy.
 

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Man thats tragic,Prayers for every one and thier famlies.
 

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trag·e·dy
1. a dramatic composition, often in verse, dealing with a serious or somber theme, typically that of a great person destined through a flaw of character or conflict with some overpowering force, as fate or society, to downfall or destruction.
2. the branch of the drama that is concerned with this form of composition.
3. the art and theory of writing and producing tragedies.
4. any literary composition, as a novel, dealing with a somber theme carried to a tragic conclusion.
5. the tragic element of drama, of literature generally, or of life.
6. a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster: the tragedy of war.


Poor judgment and unfortunate events do not constitute a tragedy ...

Usually it's just a bad accident ...

... as opposed to good luck ...

Sometimes very sad ...

That's why they call it "poor judgment" ...

... and the cell phone did work ...

Just lucky, I guess ...

Too much "drama" is not a good thing ...

No heroes ...

... and with some luck ...

No second act ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:
 

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Hi Joe,

I am so very sorry to hear about this.

Us older riders need to mentor the younger riders when we can, even a word over a soda between rides to be careful wounld not hurt.

See you soon my friend


Kenny
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
All,

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. Please kee p them coming.

I am at a loss as to what COULD have been done to save Oscar's life. I can't describe the feeling of inadequacy watching that young man on the ground in pain and in shock. I had no idea he had such serious injuries - he was moving and could squeeze his hand in response to questions.

I can't believe the medics didn't do a quick plasma transfusion. They obviously checked his blood pressure and knew he was bleeding.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am grateful help arrived as soon as it did. I am just second guessing the incident.

Again, be careful and ride your own ride.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I need to clarify someting - - - -

After posting the above, I remembered what the young man who stayed with Oscar said at the Ranger Station:

"They (the paramedics) had him hooked up to IV's and machines."

It appears they did try to infuse him with some plasma or electrolytes.

I wanted to clarify that misunderstanding.
 

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Re: I need to clarify someting - - - -

Joe T said:
After posting the above, I remembered what the young man who stayed with Oscar said at the Ranger Station:

"They (the paramedics) had him hooked up to IV's and machines."

It appears they did try to infuse him with some plasma or electrolytes.

I wanted to clarify that misunderstanding.
Truly was a tragic accident, regardless of what some may say....very sorry for those guy's families and for those of you who knew them and witnessed the aftermath.
 

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crew said:
trag·e·dy
1. a dramatic composition, often in verse, dealing with a serious or somber theme, typically that of a great person destined through a flaw of character or conflict with some overpowering force, as fate or society, to downfall or destruction.
2. the branch of the drama that is concerned with this form of composition.
3. the art and theory of writing and producing tragedies.
4. any literary composition, as a novel, dealing with a somber theme carried to a tragic conclusion.
5. the tragic element of drama, of literature generally, or of life.
6. a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster: the tragedy of war.


Poor judgment and unfortunate events do not constitute a tragedy ...

Usually it's just a bad accident ...

... as opposed to good luck ...

Sometimes very sad ...

That's why they call it "poor judgment" ...

... and the cell phone did work ...

Just lucky, I guess ...

Too much "drama" is not a good thing ...

No heroes ...

... and with some luck ...

No second act ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:
douchebag (noun) [slang]

1. One who makes asinine comments and rambles on incoherently, esp. at innapropriate times.
 

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DonvtxC said:
crew said:
trag·e·dy
1. a dramatic composition, often in verse, dealing with a serious or somber theme, typically that of a great person destined through a flaw of character or conflict with some overpowering force, as fate or society, to downfall or destruction.
2. the branch of the drama that is concerned with this form of composition.
3. the art and theory of writing and producing tragedies.
4. any literary composition, as a novel, dealing with a somber theme carried to a tragic conclusion.
5. the tragic element of drama, of literature generally, or of life.
6. a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster: the tragedy of war.


Poor judgment and unfortunate events do not constitute a tragedy ...

Usually it's just a bad accident ...

... as opposed to good luck ...

Sometimes very sad ...

That's why they call it "poor judgment" ...

... and the cell phone did work ...

Just lucky, I guess ...

Too much "drama" is not a good thing ...

No heroes ...

... and with some luck ...

No second act ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:
douchebag (noun) [slang]

1. One who makes asinine comments and rambles on incoherently, esp. at innapropriate times.
+234,643,674,102,901


Man, I see this EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'm in a military town, so there are TONS of new Airmen, disposable income and here's the credit union ready to let them build that credit file with a guaranteed paycheck they can garnish to make their interest money.

You know what I think? A points system. NO MORE can you take your buddy's KLR 250 to the DMV and pass your license test and then go buy a ZX 14 or a 'Busa -

Any of you fly? You have to have TIME IN A SMALLER PLANE to be able to fly a bigger one. PERIOD. How do you police it? Who knows. There has to be a way, because I'm tired of seeing the future of our sport dying at the hands of bravado and lack of experience.

I've been riding bikes on the street since 16. That's 25 years. I've never NOT had a bike, so I've put in the time, the miles and the years. I can ride an 800 pound VTX or a 170 HP Kawasaki because I have the experience, the presence of mind and have been through HUNDREDS of scenarios of cars pulling out, slamming on brakes, dogs darting out, car door opening....you get the idea.

EVEN with that, I mangaged to dump my bike early in the year in a local parade dodging a kid....but there are 2 points.

A. it can STILL happen
B. My experience saved that little kids life at the expense of my collarbone.


It's very sad that that happened man, and although you guys weren't close or anything, it had to suck to witness it and regardless of what anyone says, you'll play that sh*t back over and over for a while.

Just don't let it in your head -

YOUR sanity is in my prayers bro,

tjk
 

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ROKJOK said:
DonvtxC said:
crew said:
trag·e·dy
1. a dramatic composition, often in verse, dealing with a serious or somber theme, typically that of a great person destined through a flaw of character or conflict with some overpowering force, as fate or society, to downfall or destruction.
2. the branch of the drama that is concerned with this form of composition.
3. the art and theory of writing and producing tragedies.
4. any literary composition, as a novel, dealing with a somber theme carried to a tragic conclusion.
5. the tragic element of drama, of literature generally, or of life.
6. a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster: the tragedy of war.


Poor judgment and unfortunate events do not constitute a tragedy ...

Usually it's just a bad accident ...

... as opposed to good luck ...

Sometimes very sad ...

That's why they call it "poor judgment" ...

... and the cell phone did work ...

Just lucky, I guess ...

Too much "drama" is not a good thing ...

No heroes ...

... and with some luck ...

No second act ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:
douchebag (noun) [slang]

1. One who makes asinine comments and rambles on incoherently, esp. at innapropriate times.
+234,643,674,102,901


Man, I see this EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'm in a military town, so there are TONS of new Airmen, disposable income and here's the credit union ready to let them build that credit file with a guaranteed paycheck they can garnish to make their interest money.

You know what I think? A points system. NO MORE can you take your buddy's KLR 250 to the DMV and pass your license test and then go buy a ZX 14 or a 'Busa -

Any of you fly? You have to have TIME IN A SMALLER PLANE to be able to fly a bigger one. PERIOD. How do you police it? Who knows. There has to be a way, because I'm tired of seeing the future of our sport dying at the hands of bravado and lack of experience.

I've been riding bikes on the street since 16. That's 25 years. I've never NOT had a bike, so I've put in the time, the miles and the years. I can ride an 800 pound VTX or a 170 HP Kawasaki because I have the experience, the presence of mind and have been through HUNDREDS of scenarios of cars pulling out, slamming on brakes, dogs darting out, car door opening....you get the idea.

EVEN with that, I mangaged to dump my bike early in the year in a local parade dodging a kid....but there are 2 points.

A. it can STILL happen
B. My experience saved that little kids life at the expense of my collarbone.


It's very sad that that happened man, and although you guys weren't close or anything, it had to suck to witness it and regardless of what anyone says, you'll play that sh*t back over and over for a while.

Just don't let it in your head -

YOUR sanity is in my prayers bro,

tjk
Elevating poor judgement seems to encourcourage it in others rather than discouraging it ...

Preaching seems to fall on deaf ears ...

Cars and motorcycles are dangerous things and should be used with caution ...

I've had more than my share of bad chicken and warm potato salad after the memorial ride ...

If folks want my portion they're more than welcome to it ...

Bon appétit ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:
 

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I'm very sorry to read your experience Joe. It was well written.

Life belongs to the living, all the joy, all the sorrow. I trust the dead rest in peace.

Nanuk.
 

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DonvtxC said:
crew said:
trag·e·dy
1. a dramatic composition, often in verse, dealing with a serious or somber theme, typically that of a great person destined through a flaw of character or conflict with some overpowering force, as fate or society, to downfall or destruction.
2. the branch of the drama that is concerned with this form of composition.
3. the art and theory of writing and producing tragedies.
4. any literary composition, as a novel, dealing with a somber theme carried to a tragic conclusion.
5. the tragic element of drama, of literature generally, or of life.
6. a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster: the tragedy of war.


Poor judgment and unfortunate events do not constitute a tragedy ...

Usually it's just a bad accident ...

... as opposed to good luck ...

Sometimes very sad ...

That's why they call it "poor judgment" ...

... and the cell phone did work ...

Just lucky, I guess ...

Too much "drama" is not a good thing ...

No heroes ...

... and with some luck ...

No second act ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:
douchebag (noun) [slang]

1. One who makes asinine comments and rambles on incoherently, esp. at innapropriate times.

+2 on that Don



I am a strong proponent of starting on a dirt bike
+2 on this also! Big time!!


Prayers sent out for all partys.....
 

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Joe T,

Please accept our prayers for all who loved the young man who died. A young life cut short is a tragedy anywhere. Never will he realise his potential in life. May he ride the highways forever. Ride on. :( :(

To the other youngster who survives, we can but hope for a speedy and complete recovery, and a quick return to the roads on two wheels. :) :)

Boy Racer.
 

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crew said:
trag·e·dy
1. a dramatic composition, often in verse, dealing with a serious or somber theme, typically that of a great person destined through a flaw of character or conflict with some overpowering force, as fate or society, to downfall or destruction.
2. the branch of the drama that is concerned with this form of composition.
3. the art and theory of writing and producing tragedies.
4. any literary composition, as a novel, dealing with a somber theme carried to a tragic conclusion.
5. the tragic element of drama, of literature generally, or of life.
6. a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster: the tragedy of war.


Poor judgment and unfortunate events do not constitute a tragedy ...

Usually it's just a bad accident ...

... as opposed to good luck ...

Sometimes very sad ...

That's why they call it "poor judgment" ...

... and the cell phone did work ...

Just lucky, I guess ...

Too much "drama" is not a good thing ...

No heroes ...

... and with some luck ...

No second act ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:
....
WTF....


definately a tragedy, my condolances to the familys.
 

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crew said:
trag·e·dy
1. a dramatic composition, often in verse, dealing with a serious or somber theme, typically that of a great person destined through a flaw of character or conflict with some overpowering force, as fate or society, to downfall or destruction.
2. the branch of the drama that is concerned with this form of composition.
3. the art and theory of writing and producing tragedies.
4. any literary composition, as a novel, dealing with a somber theme carried to a tragic conclusion.
5. the tragic element of drama, of literature generally, or of life.
6. a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster: the tragedy of war.


Poor judgment and unfortunate events do not constitute a tragedy ...

Usually it's just a bad accident ...

... as opposed to good luck ...

Sometimes very sad ...

That's why they call it "poor judgment" ...

... and the cell phone did work ...

Just lucky, I guess ...

Too much "drama" is not a good thing ...

No heroes ...

... and with some luck ...

No second act ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:
I see where you are going with this and to some degree respect your view, as you are not to far off. Because of the fact that we are not directly or indirectly involved in this event (werent there, didnt know those involved) it may not be tragic to us, just a bad accident where poor judgement was involved, we think. However as in your definition quoted above, I did hi-lite a word or few "a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair". Does this not qualify as such; 'a lamentable', will family and friends cry and grieve over this? YES, 'Dreadful', absolutely a dreadful event, I dread this happening to myself, or anyone else. 'Fatal event or affair' well let me think about this, did the guy die, ummm yes he did. So to just refer to a tragedy as from a literary standpoint as to show intelligence misses the mark. This lamentable, dreadful, fatal event is to this guys family and friends, and everyone involved in that affair "the ride that afternoon" a tragedy. Tragic events unfold in all our lives, unfortunaetly Shakespeare isnt around to write about them.
My prayer to these families, and to you crew in hopes that you never have to experience a tragedy like this. In closing maybe your reply was poor judgement.

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...
 

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Having a son in the Marines who just bought a CBR600, I worry more about this happening to him than I do him going to war. This is very sad. Prayers are sent for the family and all involved.
 

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crew said:
trag·e·dy
1. a dramatic composition, often in verse, dealing with a serious or somber theme, typically that of a great person destined through a flaw of character or conflict with some overpowering force, as fate or society, to downfall or destruction.
2. the branch of the drama that is concerned with this form of composition.
3. the art and theory of writing and producing tragedies.
4. any literary composition, as a novel, dealing with a somber theme carried to a tragic conclusion.
5. the tragic element of drama, of literature generally, or of life.
6. a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster: the tragedy of war.


Poor judgment and unfortunate events do not constitute a tragedy ...

Usually it's just a bad accident ...

... as opposed to good luck ...

Sometimes very sad ...

That's why they call it "poor judgment" ...

... and the cell phone did work ...

Just lucky, I guess ...

Too much "drama" is not a good thing ...

No heroes ...

... and with some luck ...

No second act ...

opinions vary ...

all blessings ...

crew

:crew:
Ah, open mouth, insert foot!
"poor Judgement" is this post
Any accident or loss of life is a "tragedy", especially to the family

Prayers to all concerned
 
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