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Discussion Starter #1
Abortion clinics are being ordered to stop until we get this under control. It has been said, in order to land on a reasonable number that takes all facts into account and can be universally accepted, we use the general figure of 3,000 daily abortions in the U.S.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I didn't mean to be so insensitive. These women who's abortions were cancelled at the last minute have gone on an emotional roller coaster I couldn't imagine. They will need a lot of prayer, love and counseling. I hope they look at their children as very special gifts from God.
 

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between my (f)ather, and my younger sister..

they shown me why I should not have children
(f)ather disappeared when I was 5
sister started to have kids at 13..
brother had 6 kids in 7 years.. and did not stay with any of them.

but more to the OP's statement.
Murders are way down these few weeks.
 

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I didn't mean to be so insensitive. These women who's abortions were cancelled at the last minute have gone on an emotional roller coaster I couldn't imagine. They will need a lot of prayer, love and counseling. I hope they look at their children as very special gifts from God.
As do I my brother. Likely though, many of these children will be born to mothers that have no clue, and no desire to accept responsibility for their irresponsible actions. A terribly sad situation for the innocent to be born into. Unfortunately this is the state of morality today. For too many of these children having children, it was the exact situation they were born into. It's sad.
 

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I am always wondering: has anyone of these anti-abortion religious zealots ever been an unwanted child themselves?
I have been. Not due to abortion not being available, but because of their precious 'god' deeming it necessary to kill a young mother of four young children. If their only reason for being against abortion is the fear that they may not get their spot in their imaginary Valhalla then they're nothing more than a bunch of selfish bastards.
 

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I am always wondering: has anyone of these anti-abortion religious zealots ever been an unwanted child themselves?
I have been. Not due to abortion not being available, but because of their precious 'god' deeming it necessary to kill a young mother of four young children. If their only reason for being against abortion is the fear that they may not get their spot in their imaginary Valhalla then they're nothing more than a bunch of selfish bastards.
That would be true Henk, if that were the reason for it. Here's the problem. If you, as an adult, were inconvenient, is it okay to just terminate you? Kill you so you are no longer inconvenient? I don't understand your killing of a young mother reference, but if you, or anyone, are the result of an unwanted pregnancy, the fault isn't that you were not murdered in the womb, but rather the people who acted irresponsibly are and remain irresponsible. Many children, who were surprises to their parents grew up in a loving and adjusted environment.

Anti-abortionists are not anti-abortion because they want a home in heaven, they are anti-abortion because they do not support murder of the innocent. The argument is always about whether or not abortion is murder, not about whether or not I go to heaven or not if I do or do not oppose it. Whether or not abortion amounts to murder has been hotly debated everywhere, and here. I think my views on that have been fairly clear and I have not changed my position. On the one hand abortion is often a mercy to the unborn, as the life their irresponsible parents would provide for them is a rough road indeed. OTOH, to terminate a life, viable, healthy and full of potential is murder and is wrong. The fault isn't with "abortion" yes or no, the fault is with a society that has fallen to a point where murder of the innocent is a mercy. It's just wrong on so many levels.

I know a few people who made the decision to never have children. Either because of their childhood situation, or because they just don't want kids. None of them have had children, nor have they committed murder. Well, one guy did, but he killed a guy in a drug deal gone bad, but he didn't murder a baby. And he's in prison for it.
 

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wife side,,, 2 sisters with a total of 8 children.. no fathers in sight.. ever.
my side, brother, 6 children.. 6 different ladies.. he never supported any of them.
my sister had 3 kids,, same father.. then he took off.. she did raise the 3 kids.. but had 3 more husbands also.

both sides grew up in the HOOD.. Getto.. whatever they call it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I know there are children living in tough conditions, but how about the babies being aborted for convenience, anger or social pressure? Why not allow the birth and let people adopt them? How many babies are enough to justify abortion?
170701
 

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I didn't mean to be so insensitive. These women who's abortions were cancelled at the last minute have gone on an emotional roller coaster I couldn't imagine. They will need a lot of prayer, love and counseling. I hope they look at their children as very special gifts from God.
Or a gift from a rapist. Whatever.


Sitting on my VTX making vroom vroom sounds.
 

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The implied assumption from the OP is that closing down access to safe abortions will necessary result in "saved lives". Ignorance abounds when it comes to abortion it seems. Studies have shown that what happens when women have no access to abortions is that they often resort to unsafe, non-clinical, self administered abortions that result injury and death of the mother and the fetus.

I have no religious beliefs, but if I did I would wish for an especially painful place in hell reserved for those inflicting there pious beliefs onto mostly young women who can't safely carry out the agonizing, selfless decision not to bring a child into a dangerous or life-threatening situation (often the case cited for abortion).

Perhaps a special tax should be put into place for those who want to force a woman to have a child when they can't afford one. If you want that kid so badly, how about YOU pay for it.


Research it yourselves.

What Actually Happens When a Country Bans Abortion
 

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I am not sure how anyone can refer to terminating a life as selfless. That is just an abuse of the language. If one is selfish out of desperation, then they are still selfish. It doesn't necessarily make them evil, it only makes them human, but, at least let's call it what it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
It would be nice if the babies being aborted because the mom's did not want them had someone in their corner. There are thousands more of them than the others.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Killing baby's should not be political or religious, but I am ok with moving this to Hotbox. That is really not my call. Just saying.
 

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For you abortion is the same as killing baby's. There are also people for whom the use of contraceptives is the same as killing baby's. For others abortion is possible in a legal context. So I must conclude that you consider these people as being murderers. So different opinions driven by religious and political belief. Just saying.
 

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This topic is 100% a political/religious topic, shouldn't this be moved to Hotbox?

Religion can be discussed in the Off Topic forum. There is no reason the topic should be political.
 

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I am not sure how anyone can refer to terminating a life as selfless. That is just an abuse of the language. If one is selfish out of desperation, then they are still selfish. It doesn't necessarily make them evil, it only makes them human, but, at least let's call it what it is.
As you should know, the very controversy concerning abortion falls to what constitutes 'a life' and further that even if a fetus is considered a life and not a potential life, more controversy falls to who's life (mothers vs fetus) has more rights? I believe normal women by nature want to keep and carry their fetus to birth and studies show the #1 reason for women deciding against this natural inclination is concern for the unborn child's welfare and safety, and secondly because it would create a significant hardship on the mother.

It is my belief based on readings and talks I've had with females who's had abortions that often it is a heart wrenching decision of the mother to not have the baby, basing the decision on unselfish reasons all having to do with the welfare of the potential life. The selfish decision is to knowingly bring a life into a harsh or threatening situation because you didn't have the fortitude to deal with criticisms of your decision.

A parent knowingly putting an infant in harms way or into a threating situation is universally considered wrong except when it will appease the unrealistic, religious/romantic ideals of the "sacredness" of life, or in this case the potential for life.

Back on topic, those who have campaigned for closing clinics that perform abortions have blood on their hands for the women who die with unsafe abortions and for women who bring unwanted children into this world, who suffer through lives of poverty and despair and add to the grief this world endures, all so they can cling onto their romantic ideals of life.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
"Back on topic, those who have campaigned for closing clinics that perform abortions have blood on their hands" I feel that way about people supporting abortion. But I also agree condoms and birth control pills is the same thing. No one gets a pass on this, including me. But lets not sugarcoat killing baby's.
 

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As you should know, the very controversy concerning abortion falls to what constitutes 'a life' and further that even if a fetus is considered a life and not a potential life, more controversy falls to who's life (mothers vs fetus) has more rights? I believe normal women by nature want to keep and carry their fetus to birth and studies show the #1 reason for women deciding against this natural inclination is concern for the unborn child's welfare and safety, and secondly because it would create a significant hardship on the mother.

It is my belief based on readings and talks I've had with females who's had abortions that often it is a heart wrenching decision of the mother to not have the baby, basing the decision on unselfish reasons all having to do with the welfare of the potential life. The selfish decision is to knowingly bring a life into a harsh or threatening situation because you didn't have the fortitude to deal with criticisms of your decision.

A parent knowingly putting an infant in harms way or into a threating situation is universally considered wrong except when it will appease the unrealistic, religious/romantic ideals of the "sacredness" of life, or in this case the potential for life.

Back on topic, those who have campaigned for closing clinics that perform abortions have blood on their hands for the women who die with unsafe abortions and for women who bring unwanted children into this world, who suffer through lives of poverty and despair and add to the grief this world endures, all so they can cling onto their romantic ideals of life.
Those are really good points HOP, and, honestly, I don't disagree with what you are saying regarding the mothers, the fetus/baby. A parent knowingly putting an infant in harms way ... boy you hit the nail on the head with that one (to be clear, I am agreeing). BUT, it's not selfless, as much as it may seem so, and again, it makes these people human. But it is selfish, due to one's own human failings, but to terminate a life, rather than to do everything humanly possible to elevate that life is selfish. Selfishness is a human failing, and like I said, it doesn't make these mothers evil, only human. BUT, it is important to call it what it is, and not be an apologist for it. Women get pregnant, sometimes due to force. In such an instance, it is regrettable, but an argument can be made either way. Women get pregnant due to bad decision making. For this no one should apologize as no apology is sufficient. YOU SCREWED UP! And ending an innocent life because YOU SCREWED UP is just wrong. The message is not, nor should it be focused on women's rights to terminate a pregnancy, but rather a woman's right to not get pregnant at all. Will it still happen, oh yes, nothing is 100%, but there is no one that can honestly tell me that "what if I get pregnant" doesn't have a convenient option available in way too many cases. Let's don't talk about all abortions as though they are all the same. Lets first discuss the most egregious abuses and we can argue the rest. If you make screwing up easy, well then it's easy to screw up. Stop screwing up should be first and foremost.

That said I have no doubt in my mind that many women are haunted by their decision to terminate a pregnancy. That should tell us all that it runs counter to our programming. These women know that what they chose to do was wrong on any number of levels. Again, it doesn't make them evil, only human. These are human failings, but failings they are.
 
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