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Really? Even when they are clearly defending themselves from people who are intent on hurting or killing them? Or with that same intent toward others?

In this particular situation I don't believe they can justify having him on the ground with a knee on his neck for 8 minutes, regardless of what he did or didn't do. It's a clear case of abusive force and manslaughter.

But to say police are never justified in taking another life under any circumstances is just not realistic.
I see your point, I should have been more erudite.
Of course, when a cops life is threatened, and a Taser does no good, than a PO should use deadly force so protect himself or others.

I should have worded it differently.
 

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There are different ways to choke a man. That's a blood choke.
Like a rear-naked choke in MMA/UFC or what they feign in the professional wrestling as a "sleeper hold", if you put pressure on the neck blood vessels under the ears (on the neck) and it's strong and steady on both sides, it only takes seconds to put someone out cold. Less than 10 seconds.
As opposed to a windpipe/air choke.
In any event, his position eventually caused a blood choke which made George Floyd go out, which is no big deal in and of itself. But you would have to get off him/his neck at that point or release the hold/choke so the person "comes to".
Holding a blood choke deprives the brain of blood, and if it was another couple minutes AFTER he went out...

It looks very, very bad. I'm not sure what he thought the result would be once the man was out.
Has there been any word on an autopsy/blood screen?

Hell of a way to go out over a fake $20 bill. Shame.
 

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"Democrats are dancing in the streets in the hope of winning in November, without regard to the costs to the country and its people, especially the black communities; the gates to the plantations are opened".
 

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I keep hearing police procedures will be changed/updated after this.

If the cops in this police department were given formal training to use the knee/neck maneuver and in that training no reference to the effects of kneeling on an artery would have, then i don't see how you can call it murder. It's like convicting someone for being stupid. IOW, he was/would be just doing his job as trained, if all the above is the actual case.

However, looking at the picture of the Cop (above) he looks in his eyes like the "Depravity of Heart" law (3rd degree Murder) would fit. I suspect there are other depraved things on his record.

I'd like to know if the Cop received formal training from the police department on the knee/neck maneuver.

So you really have to see what the justice system reveals, it could be that the Cop was just not so bright and didn't realize exactly was he was doing (stupidity). OR he could be a "depraved mind" kind of cop.
 

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I keep hearing police procedures will be changed/updated after this.

If the cops in this police department were given formal training to use the knee/neck maneuver and in that training no reference to the effects of kneeling on an artery would have, then i don't see how you can call it murder. It's like convicting someone for being stupid. IOW, he was/would be just doing his job as trained, if all the above is the actual case.

However, looking at the picture of the Cop (above) he looks in his eyes like the "Depravity of Heart" law (3rd degree Murder) would fit. I suspect there are other depraved things on his record.

I'd like to know if the Cop received formal training from the police department on the knee/neck maneuver.

So you really have to see what the justice system reveals, it could be that the Cop was just not so bright and didn't realize exactly was he was doing (stupidity). OR he could be a "depraved mind" kind of cop.
In other words, if the Cop is just a mean prick, then throw the book at him. If he was following a procedure but ignorant about it (dumb good ole' boy), then it's some type of manslaughter. Just my opinion.

But like i said, that picture of him a few posts above is disturbing, granted it could be a mug shot photo where he was super stressed out.
 

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He should have been kicked off the force a long time ago, from his record. Why does it seem that 'bad boys', at least many of those around here, end up as LEO's? Sure most have turned 'their lives' around after taking their oaths, but just like released criminals ending back in prison, at least some of these cops are not giving up their past street ways of enforcement.
 

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He should have been kicked off the force a long time ago, from his record. Why does it seem that 'bad boys', at least many of those around here, end up as LEO's?
I am not willing to jump to any conclusions about Chauvin’s fitness to hold his job. If he has had an average of one complaint per year, and 15 or 16 times there was no discipline taken, then maybe there was no merit to the charges. Not saying he was a model cop, but just willing to keep an open mind. As for the extended ‘knee to neck’ restraint of George Floyd, it looked totally criminal to me. I hope all relevant facts come out in the trial.
 

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There was some violence in Charlotte, NC last night as part of a George Floyd protest. But unlike the weird choices in Minneapolis, when mobs started throwing rocks at a police precinct, the cops took control of the situation, splitting the mob of “protesters” into two groups and pushing the up and down the street and away from the police station. No abandoning the building and surrendering to arsonists... just law enforcement professionals doing a heck of a hard job.
 

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This will be my last comment on this injustice...”Sadly this wont be the last time”
 

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I am not willing to jump to any conclusions about Chauvin’s fitness to hold his job. If he has had an average of one complaint per year, and 15 or 16 times there was no discipline taken, then maybe there was no merit to the charges. Not saying he was a model cop, but just willing to keep an open mind. As for the extended ‘knee to neck’ restraint of George Floyd, it looked totally criminal to me. I hope all relevant facts come out in the trial.
Very sober look at this, thanks Dud. It should be noted, as well, that this wasn't just over a fake bill, but because Floyd resisted being put in a cruiser. Not that it in anyway justifies what happened, but things did not escalate organically, I believe, but was the result of more than one event. Again, that does not absolve the cop from any responsibility here, but we haven't seen what the resisting arrest looked like. That may bring, at least, some clarity as to why it got that far, and why the cop felt the need to hold him down.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Very sober look at this, thanks Dud. It should be noted, as well, that this wasn't just over a fake bill, but because Floyd resisted being put in a cruiser. Not that it in anyway justifies what happened, but things did not escalate organically, I believe, but was the result of more than one event. Again, that does not absolve the cop from any responsibility here, but we haven't seen what the resisting arrest looked like. That may bring, at least, some clarity as to why it got that far, and why the cop felt the need to hold him down.
Exactly, In my original post, I expressed the same sentiment. There is always more to the story than reported. I guess that must be the nature of the business. The cop took an overly aggressive tactic that led to Floyds death, we know that. But what is the back story that got it that far? Something happened and Floyd is responsible for those events. Like it or not.
 
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