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Motorcycle sales in the US have been in decline for awhile, as I understand it. This to me, is just a way to blame someone, for a process that was already in place. They have known for sometime the market is India. Honda bailed in about 2008 or 09. So they seen the writing on the wall a long time ago.
As far as tariffs go, I think we pay more to export than anyone pays to import.
 

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cry me a river Harley Davidson, this is effecting other company's too but you don't hear them whining.
they make more money on bikes as well as clothing,gear and the list goes on and on.
their marketing is top notch and you pay for the name.
went to the dealer the other day....21,000 for the fatboy and 22,000 for the basic goldwing.
the technology on the goldwing is superior with all the bells and whistles as we all know.
the fatboy was nice but it is just a basic cruiser style,,
im sure Harley is butt-sore right now but i bet their not lacking any money to go and build a plant or two overseas.
 

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i think the idea is that if we make imported goods as expensive or more expensive that what it would cost if made in the USA, then companies would decide to make those products here in the USA. Jobs would then start growing here, specifically manufacturing jobs. I used to preach the same idea years ago only to be told by ultra-conservatives that "protectionism" is not good and doesnt make life better (i paraphrase).
Problem is that its painful getting to the point where it pays off, reversing globalism that is.
 

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So...after being booted from a Harley Dealership a while back when my VLX had an broken bolt on the saddle bag mount and left me somewhat stranded, the dealer said they refused to help because I was riding a metric bike. Does this mean that Harley will now end up with a metric bike? Either way, Harley can pack up and move everything they have out of the states! Sorry for the workers, but this "get your metric bike off our property" attitude will stay with me for a long long time!
I think Harley techs are instructed not to do any kind of work to a bike without a work order. In the old days a dealer might have given you some rope or cable ties for free to secure you saddlebag and say if your ever interested in a new bike come back to see us. The idea is to make you feel welcome to come back. The sad truth is especially Harley dealers they are cold hearted and out to make the highest profits.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
cry me a river Harley Davidson, this is effecting other company's too but you don't hear them whining.
they make more money on bikes as well as clothing,gear and the list goes on and on.
their marketing is top notch and you pay for the name.
went to the dealer the other day....21,000 for the fatboy and 22,000 for the basic goldwing.
the technology on the goldwing is superior with all the bells and whistles as we all know.
the fatboy was nice but it is just a basic cruiser style,,
im sure Harley is butt-sore right now but i bet their not lacking any money to go and build a plant or two overseas.
I don't think anyone is whining here, at least that's not how I read it. The position is that the move will seriously affect their profitability so they need to find ways around it. Harley gets the publicity because POTUS made a point of making them the fair haired child. Trump has also threatened to tax them for the move, which I understand, not sure it's the right move, but I understand it. I have not read anywhere where Harley's position on this constitutes whining.

The basic Goldwing is a hell of a deal, no question about it. If you'd rather have that then you should get that. Choice is a wonderful thing, ain't it?

Harley isn't building a plant overseas. It has an assembly plant in Thailand and is shifting assembly for the bikes destined for the EU to that location.

While I understand your distaste for the situation, it is important that one be informed before making such assumptions.

i think the idea is that if we make imported goods as expensive or more expensive that what it would cost if made in the USA, then companies would decide to make those products here in the USA. Jobs would then start growing here, specifically manufacturing jobs. I used to preach the same idea years ago only to be told by ultra-conservatives that "protectionism" is not good and doesnt make life better (i paraphrase).
Problem is that its painful getting to the point where it pays off, reversing globalism that is.
Exactly so Arizona. This is well stated and unfortunately there will be casualties. I sincerely hope Harley isn't among them. Looking past any bias against Harley, and I know a lot of people on a Honda board are gonna hate on them, Harley failing because of this is a bad deal for a lot of people. Harley employs about 5200 people in the US. There are bigger companies out there, but like them or hate them, they are a part of America.
 

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I used to preach the same idea years ago only to be told by ultra-conservatives that "protectionism" is not good and doesnt make life better (i paraphrase).
Problem is that its painful getting to the point where it pays off, reversing globalism that is.
EU, China and all the rest have been practicing protectionism forever. Why doesn't the same argument apply to them? I like to know what's the existing EU tariff on Harleys and why Harley has never complained about it?
 

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Discussion Starter #28
EU, China and all the rest have been practicing protectionism forever. Why doesn't the same argument apply to them? I like to know what's the existing EU tariff on Harleys and why Harley has never complained about it?
The EU tariffs are changing from 6% to 31% for American made motorcycles. It's more about why the EU imposed such extreme adjustments to the American imports, and it's all about the US imposing tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum. This speaks to the power of the EU as a union of nations and not just individual nations. OTOH the EU has way bigger problems than their steel and aluminum exports to the US seeing export duties. But that's another discussion. GB saw this. I don't know if GB will impose the same after Brexit or not (Mar 29, 2019).

It's important to understand that this will take a bite out of every manufacturer exporting to the EU. As has been mentioned, it will take some time for this to show any real benefits. Harley and every other manufacturer that exports to the EU certainly has every right to complain, after all it hits them where they live. If you go to the dentist and it hurts, you complain, whether or not you are supportive of what the dentist is doing. The manufacturers have cause for concern. As I stated, there may be casualties, and no one wants to volunteer for that position. They are all just trying to survive. For Harley, it's not as simple as sacrificing some profits to keep EU production in the US. Without the move investor confidence is lowered, stick prices fall, and people cash out. Believe it or not, a company that is still quite viable and profitable can go broke over night due to such events. They are doing what they are doing, certainly not to move jobs or to piss Trump off. they are doing this to survive for the long run.
 

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Anyone remember when President Reagan imposed tariffs on Japanese bikes to save Harley from going belly up? Can't remember whether it was during AMF ownership or after the group of employees bought the company. I'm too lazy to search to verify, but I think it was a $600/700 tax on Wings and 750's. Later.
 

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Anyone remember when President Reagan imposed tariffs on Japanese bikes to save Harley from going belly up? Can't remember whether it was during AMF ownership or after the group of employees bought the company. I'm too lazy to search to verify, but I think it was a $600/700 tax on Wings and 750's. Later.

my post # 4 pointed that out... early/mid 1970's
 

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Anyone remember when President Reagan imposed tariffs on Japanese bikes to save Harley from going belly up? Can't remember whether it was during AMF ownership or after the group of employees bought the company. I'm too lazy to search to verify, but I think it was a $600/700 tax on Wings and 750's. Later.
Around 1984 or 1985. At the time Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki lowered their engines by 50cc on 750cc models to 700cc to avoid the tariffs and keep costs down on there 750 models because the tariffs were imposed on imported bikes 750cc and larger. Remember the Honda Shadow 700, Suzuki Intruder 700, Yamaha Virgo 700 and Kawasaki Vulcan 700 V-Twins.
 

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cry me a river Harley Davidson, this is effecting other company's too but you don't hear them whining.
they make more money on bikes as well as clothing,gear and the list goes on and on.
their marketing is top notch and you pay for the name.
went to the dealer the other day....21,000 for the fatboy and 22,000 for the basic goldwing.
the technology on the goldwing is superior with all the bells and whistles as we all know.
the fatboy was nice but it is just a basic cruiser style,,
im sure Harley is butt-sore right now but i bet their not lacking any money to go and build a plant or two overseas.
I don't think anyone is whining here, at least that's not how I read it. The position is that the move will seriously affect their profitability so they need to find ways around it. Harley gets the publicity because POTUS made a point of making them the fair haired child. Trump has also threatened to tax them for the move, which I understand, not sure it's the right move, but I understand it. I have not read anywhere where Harley's position on this constitutes whining.

The basic Goldwing is a hell of a deal, no question about it. If you'd rather have that then you should get that. Choice is a wonderful thing, ain't it?

Harley isn't building a plant overseas. It has an assembly plant in Thailand and is shifting assembly for the bikes destined for the EU to that location.

While I understand your distaste for the situation, it is important that one be informed before making such assumptions.

i think the idea is that if we make imported goods as expensive or more expensive that what it would cost if made in the USA, then companies would decide to make those products here in the USA. Jobs would then start growing here, specifically manufacturing jobs. I used to preach the same idea years ago only to be told by ultra-conservatives that "protectionism" is not good and doesnt make life better (i paraphrase).
Problem is that its painful getting to the point where it pays off, reversing globalism that is.
Exactly so Arizona. This is well stated and unfortunately there will be casualties. I sincerely hope Harley isn't among them. Looking past any bias against Harley, and I know a lot of people on a Honda board are gonna hate on them, Harley failing because of this is a bad deal for a lot of people. Harley employs about 5200 people in the US. There are bigger companies out there, but like them or hate them, they are a part of America.
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this Game has been played a few times..


like when Harley tried to stop others making copies of the Harley type engine...
potato, potato, potato, potato...

V-twin pushrod .... air cooled... just like the Yamaha for the last 15 years...
 

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So...after being booted from a Harley Dealership a while back when my VLX had an broken bolt on the saddle bag mount and left me somewhat stranded, the dealer said they refused to help because I was riding a metric bike. Does this mean that Harley will now end up with a metric bike? Either way, Harley can pack up and move everything they have out of the states! Sorry for the workers, but this "get your metric bike off our property" attitude will stay with me for a long long time!
I think Harley techs are instructed not to do any kind of work to a bike without a work order. In the old days a dealer might have given you some rope or cable ties for free to secure you saddlebag and say if your ever interested in a new bike come back to see us. The idea is to make you feel welcome to come back. The sad truth is especially Harley dealers they are cold hearted and out to make the highest profits.
Not the case. I pulled in, talked to the service manager and he told me that they would help out a "brother biker" any way they could. Told me to pull in the service area and when he walked up and saw my Honda, he told me to take it somewhere else and then started in on the "Metric BS!"!
 

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Not the case. I pulled in, talked to the service manager and he told me that they would help out a "brother biker" any way they could. Told me to pull in the service area and when he walked up and saw my Honda, he told me to take it somewhere else and then started in on the "Metric BS!"!
Harley shops are very bias against any other make. I faced a different situation. I called a Local Harley Shop to ask how much to mount a tire on a rim and I already have a new tire. They said you must purchase the tire from us. We do not mount any tire from anywhere else. Now the lady was polite when talking to me and I said okay I understand. I ended up going to the Honda shop, they did it for me, it didn't matter that I already had a new tire.
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Harley shops are very bias against any other make. I faced a different situation. I called a Local Harley Shop to ask how much to mount a tire on a rim and I already have a new tire. They said you must purchase the tire from us. We do not mount any tire from anywhere else. Now the lady was polite when talking to me and I said okay I understand. I ended up going to the Honda shop, they did it for me, it didn't matter that I already had a new tire.
Unfortunately this scenario stands even if you ride a Harley. The dealerships will not mount a tire they don't sell, regardless of the brand of wheel it's being mounted to. If I took my bike or wheel to these shops with a tire from elsewhere, I'd get the same answer.

I should also add, most only sell Harley tires, for the stock sizes anyway, and yes, they come at a huge premium because they are labeled as HD and not Dunlop. I run Metzler>:)
 

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as for tires..

I know of NO dealer that will mount a tire they did not sell you....
my local Honda dealer will try to price match.. even the internet...

as I said before

Harley V-Rod is a Dunlop with Harley on the side wall and is a model 251 tire
Honda VTX "F" is a Dunlop an can only be purchased at Honda dealer... model 251

both same size.. same dunlop.. same tread

one said Harley. other said Dunlop..

and the Honda tire can not be purchased from a Dunlop dealer.. only Honda.

an are proprietary tires.

for both Harley and Honda owners.. Dunlop came out with a 200/50R18 and fits any bike that takes a 180/55R18..
this information is well know.. since 2006....
 

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I would not even try to ask a non-Honda dealer to do any work on the VTX. I have a local bike shop that works on any bike without complaints. They have put on new tires several times but they ordered the tire. Didn't mind that.
 
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