Honda VTX Forum banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
While riding approx 45mph,the "pin" that my ( Jardine fwd controls) shifter lever pivots on snapped.I pulled over,turned off the ignition,put it into 3rd,returned home.A guy I know (without asking)drilled a hole,placed a large threaded screw,a couple lock washers and a bolt together for me..? I tried this out,only to find that shifting either up or down a few times,would loosen/tighten the bolt,eventually making it impossible to shift at all! I noticed the next day,that it was becoming harder to shift gears and down shifting was nearly impossible.A friend replaced the screw/nut with a proper replacement pin which he welded into the original spot,however nothing changed.I took it to Honda,a mechanic rode it a short distance,returned and informed me "it was the tranny!",followed by a quote of "$18-$2,000" labor only!
I returned home,checked,bled,cleaned/greased all hand/foot levers,checked the linkage,drained the oil,opened the crank case,checked each clutch plate (all ok) refilled the oil and still,no change.I forgot to mention,when in 1st gear,the bike pulls ahead,seems to be stuck between 1st & neutral? At this time,I cannot afford what Honda is asking,so any advice,ideas or input of any kind will be greatly appreciated! Thank's to all in advance! Dan :banghead:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
While riding approx 45mph,the "pin" that my ( Jardine fwd controls) shifter lever pivots on snapped.I pulled over,turned off the ignition,put it into 3rd,returned home.A guy I know (without asking)drilled a hole,placed a large threaded screw,a couple lock washers and a bolt together for me..? I tried this out,only to find that shifting either up or down a few times,would loosen/tighten the bolt,eventually making it impossible to shift at all! I noticed the next day,that it was becoming harder to shift gears and down shifting was nearly impossible.A friend replaced the screw/nut with a proper replacement pin which he welded into the original spot,however nothing changed.I took it to Honda,a mechanic rode it a short distance,returned and informed me "it was the tranny!",followed by a quote of "$18-$2,000" labor only!
I returned home,checked,bled,cleaned/greased all hand/foot levers,checked the linkage,drained the oil,opened the crank case,checked each clutch plate (all ok) refilled the oil and still,no change.I forgot to mention,when in 1st gear,the bike pulls ahead,seems to be stuck between 1st & neutral? At this time,I cannot afford what Honda is asking,so any advice,ideas or input of any kind will be greatly appreciated! Thank's to all in advance! Dan :banghead:
Change your clutch fluid, then report back. Will probably work, and it's about $5 to try. :doorag: I experienced similar symptoms 2 weeks ago, and the fluid fixed it all. Bad fluid will cause the clutch to not disengage, and shifting to be turrible, if not impossible, and the bike will attempt to pull in first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,037 Posts
First, if you stomp on the shifter, it will break. Push it into gear with your toe. If you don't stomp on the shifter, the pivot needs to be lubed more often.
Second, the shift assembly is probably too tight and the shift fork is not returning to center. If it doesn't return to center, you cannot shift. Try to pull the shifter back to center with your toe and then shift. If this works, it verifys this condition. Welding the pin in place probably warped the pivot and now it binds.
Third, It's not a Harley, so there isn't any clutch fluid to change. The engine case and tranny case are one piece. The engine oil lubricates both of them.
Fourth, if you had used a fine thread bolt with Loctite, it would have stayed together. The bolt threads would have worn the hole out though, making the shift lever sloppy. Better to have the smooth pin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,480 Posts
Third, It's not a Harley, so there isn't any clutch fluid to change. The engine case and tranny case are one piece. The engine oil lubricates both of them.
I *BELIEVE* he was refering to the cutch (Brake) fluid in the master cylinder. :dontknow:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
660 Posts
if it is your tranny find a vtxer to do it for you. Here in illinois we never go to dealerships, well the smart ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
I *BELIEVE* he was refering to the cutch (Brake) fluid in the master cylinder. :dontknow:
I am. If I said change the brake fluid.. may have caused more confusion.. OOPS seems I already have /hide. 8)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
While riding approx 45mph,the "pin" that my ( Jardine fwd controls) shifter lever pivots on snapped.I pulled over,turned off the ignition,put it into 3rd,returned home.A guy I know (without asking)drilled a hole,placed a large threaded screw,a couple lock washers and a bolt together for me..? I tried this out,only to find that shifting either up or down a few times,would loosen/tighten the bolt,eventually making it impossible to shift at all! I noticed the next day,that it was becoming harder to shift gears and down shifting was nearly impossible.A friend replaced the screw/nut with a proper replacement pin which he welded into the original spot,however nothing changed.I took it to Honda,a mechanic rode it a short distance,returned and informed me "it was the tranny!",followed by a quote of "$18-$2,000" labor only!
I returned home,checked,bled,cleaned/greased all hand/foot levers,checked the linkage,drained the oil,opened the crank case,checked each clutch plate (all ok) refilled the oil and still,no change.I forgot to mention,when in 1st gear,the bike pulls ahead,seems to be stuck between 1st & neutral? At this time,I cannot afford what Honda is asking,so any advice,ideas or input of any kind will be greatly appreciated! Thank's to all in advance! Dan :banghead:
If you still have your oem shifter setup i would put it back on just to try it
and see if it will work
Another thing you could try is to take the linkage off and try to shift it with the shaft that goes into the trans . You will have to jack up the bike and rotate the rear tire for the shifts to drop in
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Change your clutch fluid, then report back. Will probably work, and it's about $5 to try. :doorag: I experienced similar symptoms 2 weeks ago, and the fluid fixed it all. Bad fluid will cause the clutch to not disengage, and shifting to be turrible, if not impossible, and the bike will attempt to pull in first.
:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

And YES, the 1800 does have clutch fluid + a slave cylinder that can give you problems! Before I'd have any major work done on the tranny, I'd service the hydraulics ...real simple to do and you could be saving yourself lots of money and get back to riding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
AAHH, I understand now. Thanks. Must have Harley on the brain...somebody shoot me.
No, no. You shouldn't be shot, just a good tazing. :yikes: ;)

Back to the OP

I would bet that it's your shifter linkage binding up somewhere. Tear it apart, clean and lube every joint, and as you put it together check every peice to make sure it's not binding.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,514 Posts
:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

And YES, the 1800 does have clutch fluid + a slave cylinder that can give you problems! Before I'd have any major work done on the tranny, I'd service the hydraulics ...real simple to do and you could be saving yourself lots of money and get back to riding.
And if it worked it would also prove that the stealer didn't know WTF he was talking about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,478 Posts
Change your clutch fluid, then report back. Will probably work, and it's about $5 to try. :doorag: I experienced similar symptoms 2 weeks ago, and the fluid fixed it all. Bad fluid will cause the clutch to not disengage, and shifting to be turrible, if not impossible, and the bike will attempt to pull in first.
Agreed.

Although the clutch fluid (DOT4 Brake Fluid is all it really is) does take awhile to go bad, and his is only 5 years old... no mileage listed tho...

Absolutely worth a try.. If the fluid isn't creating the pressure it should, its going to act like you're describing..

Too easy not to try and way cheaper than the stealership.

-Gonz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Change your clutch fluid, then report back. Will probably work, and it's about $5 to try. :doorag: I experienced similar symptoms 2 weeks ago, and the fluid fixed it all. Bad fluid will cause the clutch to not disengage, and shifting to be turrible, if not impossible, and the bike will attempt to pull in first.
Hey Invader,thank's for the quick response...sorry for the late reply! Well that was the first thing I did do,"bled" or drained then refilled,took my time too!.. checked for bubbles etc.Later,I cleaned and regreased the hand lever. Thanks for the suggestion! Vegasdan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
First, if you stomp on the shifter, it will break. Push it into gear with your toe. If you don't stomp on the shifter, the pivot needs to be lubed more often.
Second, the shift assembly is probably too tight and the shift fork is not returning to center. If it doesn't return to center, you cannot shift. Try to pull the shifter back to center with your toe and then shift. If this works, it verifys this condition. Welding the pin in place probably warped the pivot and now it binds.
Third, It's not a Harley, so there isn't any clutch fluid to change. The engine case and tranny case are one piece. The engine oil lubricates both of them.
Fourth, if you had used a fine thread bolt with Loctite, it would have stayed together. The bolt threads would have worn the hole out though, making the shift lever sloppy. Better to have the smooth pin.
Hey Big Jon,thanks for the reply! I'll check the shift assembly and follow what you suggest,hopefully (fingers crossed) that will be the answer.Aside from that I've owned this bike for a few years and it's always shifted very smooth.I never had a problem with this bike until now,ever since that darn pin snapped.... Thanks very much for your suggestions!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If you still have your oem shifter setup i would put it back on just to try it
and see if it will work
Another thing you could try is to take the linkage off and try to shift it with the shaft that goes into the trans . You will have to jack up the bike and rotate the rear tire for the shifts to drop in
Hey JimAC,thanks for the reply! Well,my friend has the exact same forward controls as I do,so I borrowed his for a bit,however nothing changed.When the bikes off,I can hand shift through all the gears and it's like clock work,but start up the bike and man! it clunks from gear to gear (like there's no oil or something) I don't know if it's my imagination or what,but it feels like it gets worse as the bike warms up? As far as stomping on it,I know better than to force things,(6'5" 270lbs) I really can't afford to play rough with my toys, however if you compared (side by side) the way shifting gears prior to the pin breaking was and how it feels now?... it does take quite a bit more effort.For instance,when coming up to a stop light,I would usually have to turn the engine off to get it into 1st,then wait till the light changed before starting it back up again,because when in first gear,it'll slowly draaag me into the "INTERSECTION":yikes: I'm going to give this a try,soon as I can find a jack. Thanks again for helping me out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Agreed.

Although the clutch fluid (DOT4 Brake Fluid is all it really is) does take awhile to go bad, and his is only 5 years old... no mileage listed tho...

Absolutely worth a try.. If the fluid isn't creating the pressure it should, its going to act like you're describing..

Too easy not to try and way cheaper than the stealership.

-Gonz
I just want to thank every single one of you guys that took the time to read/reply to my post.I really was starting to feel like my riding days had come to an end! Hopefully,one of your suggestions will help to uncover whatever it is that's causing my bike to respond this way. I can't thank you guys enough! :bowdown: Vegasdan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
881 Posts
Here's my take on the problem. I too had the exact same pin break on my Jardine forward controls. I did the exact same thing as you, stopped the bike, manually shifted into 3rd then babied the clutch all the way home. Tried having a welder weld the pin but it just wasn't the same so I contacted Jardine and they sent me a whole new bracket (that I paid for of course). Now, that was the end of that problem.

However, I did also have a problem with a clutch where, because I'm a motorcycle instructor and was doing a LOT of slow speed maneuvers for a class one day on my bike, I ended up warping the steels in the clutch. As far as everyone thinks you can slip this clutch forever without damage, it just isn't true. You will overheat the steels and warp them. After I did that, it exhibited the exact same symptoms you are describing...tons of effort to shift, creeping, etc. It didn't go away until I threw them out and put in my new MTC clutch. You can't tell by looking at them, you have to put them on a granite inspection table to see the warpage. If it's bad enough you can put them all together and you'll see light between the steels (do this without the fibers). It doesn't take much warpage to reduce the total clutch separation and cause the symptoms you're describing, so you might have missed it on your inspection of the plates.

My guess is you had two things happening. First, you broke your pin, which then caused you to over-slip your clutch to get it home, causing your steels to warp, which is why you now have this secondary problem.

Just my 2 cents.

I hope you figure it out...also bleed very well, making sure you back bleed as well a couple of times (squeeze lever, then open bleed screw to let the clutch springs push fluid back from the slave through the bleed screw). I would be very shocked if it was the tranny.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Here's my take on the problem. I too had the exact same pin break on my Jardine forward controls. I did the exact same thing as you, stopped the bike, manually shifted into 3rd then babied the clutch all the way home. Tried having a welder weld the pin but it just wasn't the same so I contacted Jardine and they sent me a whole new bracket (that I paid for of course). Now, that was the end of that problem.

However, I did also have a problem with a clutch where, because I'm a motorcycle instructor and was doing a LOT of slow speed maneuvers for a class one day on my bike, I ended up warping the steels in the clutch. As far as everyone thinks you can slip this clutch forever without damage, it just isn't true. You will overheat the steels and warp them. After I did that, it exhibited the exact same symptoms you are describing...tons of effort to shift, creeping, etc. It didn't go away until I threw them out and put in my new MTC clutch. You can't tell by looking at them, you have to put them on a granite inspection table to see the warpage. If it's bad enough you can put them all together and you'll see light between the steels (do this without the fibers). It doesn't take much warpage to reduce the total clutch separation and cause the symptoms you're describing, so you might have missed it on your inspection of the plates.

My guess is you had two things happening. First, you broke your pin, which then caused you to over-slip your clutch to get it home, causing your steels to warp, which is why you now have this secondary problem.

Just my 2 cents.

I hope you figure it out...also bleed very well, making sure you back bleed as well a couple of times (squeeze lever, then open bleed screw to let the clutch springs push fluid back from the slave through the bleed screw). I would be very shocked if it was the tranny.
Hey Verbatim,nice to hear from you! I borrowed my friends "Jardine fwds" (exactly the same as my set) to double check the "welded pin stuation" and it was no different than mine is now.You could be right on the spot though (warped plates).For some reason,it feels like the shifter linkage is catching or maybe it got tweaked a bit when the pin snapped,...or "MAYBE" . . it's just wishful thinking on my part! Whatever the case I will examine the clutch plates,as you pointed out.It just kills me to think that I could have ruined my tranny? as the guys over at "Honda Powersports" were so eager to point out,without any hesitation whatsoever! I mean I really take care of my ride! Anyways,if it's not the linkage,I can only hope that replacing the clutch plates will finally do the trick. Thanks for taking the time to help me out! Vegasdan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
No, no. You shouldn't be shot, just a good tazing. :yikes: ;)

Back to the OP

I would bet that it's your shifter linkage binding up somewhere. Tear it apart, clean and lube every joint, and as you put it together check every peice to make sure it's not binding.
Thank's for the reply,I'll try this first thing tomorrow! It would really be cool if it is the linkage and not the "Tra$$y".:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
However, I did also have a problem with a clutch where, because I'm a motorcycle instructor and was doing a LOT of slow speed maneuvers for a class one day on my bike, I ended up warping the steels in the clutch. As far as everyone thinks you can slip this clutch forever without damage, it just isn't true. You will overheat the steels and warp them. After I did that, it exhibited the exact same symptoms you are describing...tons of effort to shift, creeping, etc. It didn't go away until I threw them out and put in my new MTC clutch. You can't tell by looking at them, you have to put them on a granite inspection table to see the warpage. If it's bad enough you can put them all together and you'll see light between the steels (do this without the fibers). It doesn't take much warpage to reduce the total clutch separation and cause the symptoms you're describing, so you might have missed it on your inspection of the plates.


My guess is you had two things happening. First, you broke your pin, which then caused you to over-slip your clutch to get it home, causing your steels to warp, which is why you now have this secondary problem.

Just my 2 cents.

I hope you figure it out...also bleed very well, making sure you back bleed as well a couple of times (squeeze lever, then open bleed screw to let the clutch springs push fluid back from the slave through the bleed screw). I would be very shocked if it was the tranny.
This sure sounds like what is happening :agree:
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top