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Discussion Starter #1
I solved a problem and am pretty pleased with how I did it. I'm now curious how others would have solved the same problem.


Here's the problem:


You have motorcycle pipes that you're going to install a 'lollipop' baffle in. A lollipop in this case is a screw with a loop end that gives straight pipes some resistance in air flow to give it some required backpressure and improve sound (see image).




The challenge is that the lollipop has to be mounted 6" from the end of a set of pipes (1, 7/8" inner diam.) that have two bends in them, one of them a bend in the end 3" from the tip (meaning your lollipop has to go another 3" past the bend). I posted a photo of the pipes to help with this 'puzzle' (below).


After drilling the 3/8" hole in the right spot on the inside of the pipe, the challenge is to get the lollipop down the pipe to the drill hole, and then it has to be righted up so the bottom of the bolt comes through the drilled hole and THEN you have to mount the nut onto the 3/8" tiny bit of bolt that sticks out of your hole without the bolt being pushed back into the pipe. NEXT, you have to be able to turn/tighten the nut until it's tight enough to keep it in place for the life of the pipe, without the lollipop spinning around, and so that it orientates so the lollipop 'face' (not the edge) is toward the airflow after tightening hard enough to keep the bolt in place for the life of the pipes.


I'm very curious how you guys would do this. REMEMBER, the pipes are curved in two places and the lollipop has to be mounted between the bends. How do you orientate the lollypop so the bolt comes through the almost exact size hole in the side of the pipe. How to you keep it from falling out when you try to mount the nut onto the tiny stub that comes through the pipe? How do you keep the end inside the pipe from spinning when you tighten the nut? How do you ensure the orientation is correct (lollipop faces the right way inside the pipe) inside the pipe when you can't see it looking down the pipe, due to the bends in the pipe?




:popcorn:





Lollipop correct orientation in pipe to provide backflow pressure
 

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Before starting the install, I'd ask myself a couple questions. How big that lollipop is and how far it will be from the exhaust valves. Without proper calculations, wouldn't even start the work. Random size lollipop 6" (why 6") from the end of pipe seems just a shot in the dark and most likely won't do any good, other than a different exhaust note.
 

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I gotta agree with ervin260. Front and rear cylinders have a different length so at the very least the one for the front cylinder should go back much further than 6". Any, yeah, why 6"?
 

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I once fished a cable through a bicycle frame using a Shop-Vac and kite string. Vac at one hole and fed in kite string at the other.
If you can use string or fish tape to go end-to-hole you might pull the bolt through the exit hole.
You could cut a slot on the bolt for a screwdriver. When you cut the slot align the slot with the eye so you can judge the rotation of the eye inside the pipe. Use the screwdriver to clock the eye while you tighten the nut.
I'd consider making a different type of baffle while I was at it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I gotta agree with ervin260. Front and rear cylinders have a different length so at the very least the one for the front cylinder should go back much further than 6". Any, yeah, why 6"?

All the advice I read on installing a lollipop says to install it at the rearmost of the pipes, and a premier supplier of the monster pro lollipop baffle, Big City Thunder (https://www.bigcitythunder.com/product/thunder-monster-baffles-part-2003/) recommends 6" from the end of the pipes. This tech site recommended 1" from the end; http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/exhaust.htm
but I went with the Big City Thunder advice, as they are selling a quality product with many good reviews. The best I could gather as to why mount these at the ends had to do with the power wave anti-reversion that is created in the pipe and that having them further down helps reduce reversion.


Hope this answers your questions, but more to the point, enables you to move beyond it and solve the 'puzzle'. :wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I once fished a cable through a bicycle frame using a Shop-Vac and kite string. Vac at one hole and fed in kite string at the other.
If you can use string or fish tape to go end-to-hole you might pull the bolt through the exit hole.
You could cut a slot on the bolt for a screwdriver. When you cut the slot align the slot with the eye so you can judge the rotation of the eye inside the pipe. Use the screwdriver to clock the eye while you tighten the nut.
I'd consider making a different type of baffle while I was at it.



:firstplace:You almost nailed what I did! :congrats:


This answers how I got the 'lollipop' down the pipes and past the bend, and pulled through the hole. I also did as you suggested, in that I cut an orientation slot in the bottom of the bolt. How about how I was able to secure the lollipop in place so it didn't rotate as I fastened the nut tight?
 

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I might think about making some sort of magnetic disk on the end of a shaft with a bend in it (like a threaded rod) to get past the first bend in the pipe, and the lolipop would be held to it with the magnetic disk so you could be sure it was straight in the pipe. Another alternative, though, would be to cut off the last bend in the pipe, so you could install the lolipop first, and then weld the pipe back together. I might also think about cutting a slot in the end of the eye-bolt (even with the eye itself) so you could "adjust" the lolipop (and know where it would be facing by the slot), if you needed or wanted to change it later.
 

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I once fished a cable through a bicycle frame using a Shop-Vac and kite string. Vac at one hole and fed in kite string at the other.
If you can use string or fish tape to go end-to-hole you might pull the bolt through the exit hole.
You could cut a slot on the bolt for a screwdriver. When you cut the slot align the slot with the eye so you can judge the rotation of the eye inside the pipe. Use the screwdriver to clock the eye while you tighten the nut.
I'd consider making a different type of baffle while I was at it.
This is precisely what I was envisioning that I would try first. I'd use that slot on the end of the eye bolt to not only align the lollipop, but also to hold it while tightening the nut. Final torque would be the challenge. I'd have to say trying a lock nut or potentially having enough thread to tack weld a nut on the end that I could cut off after torquing.
 

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The screwdriver slot was my best guess at ant-rotation. I give up! (That's the beer talking)
Did you notice an improvement in ride-ability?
Does it sound better?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I might think about making some sort of magnetic disk on the end of a shaft with a bend in it (like a threaded rod) to get past the first bend in the pipe, and the lolipop would be held to it with the magnetic disk so you could be sure it was straight in the pipe.

The magnet idea would allow you to get the bolt down past the pipe bend, but then you'd have to be able to orient the bolt precisely so the screw end could drop down into the drilled hole and then you'd have to be able to get your nut on the tip of the bolt so you could pull the magnet off the bolt. I can't imagine any kind of flexible wire that would work to go past the pipe bend and yet allow you to somehow lower the bolt into the screw hole as precisely as you would need to.

Another alternative, though, would be to cut off the last bend in the pipe, so you could install the lolipop first, and then weld the pipe back together. I might also think about cutting a slot in the end of the eye-bolt (even with the eye itself) so you could "adjust" the lolipop (and know where it would be facing by the slot), if you needed or wanted to change it later.

I don't own any welding equipment, but even if I did I wouldn't want to ruin the pristine look of the pipe end with a weld seam. It's a good solution if there wasn't any other way, but there was. :grin2:


 

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Discussion Starter #11
This is precisely what I was envisioning that I would try first. I'd use that slot on the end of the eye bolt to not only align the lollipop, but also to hold it while tightening the nut. Final torque would be the challenge. I'd have to say trying a lock nut or potentially having enough thread to tack weld a nut on the end that I could cut off after torquing.

The slot idea to holding/preventing rotation may work in theory except that there was so little of the bolt end that could come out of the side of the pipe because too long a bolt wouldn't allow the bolt to rotate inside the pipe to 90 degrees without the top of the lollipop hitting the pipe opposite the drilled hole and catching before it could get to 90 degree angle to drop down in the hole. I suppose it could have worked if I cut the slot precisely enough, but honestly there was only about the thickness of the nut that came through (about 2/8") the pipe, which was just about enough to grab with your fingernails and that's it. After the nut was threaded on tight I didn't even have to file it or cut it because it barely was long enough for the nut to grab onto.
 

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So what'd you do?

Sent from my... wait - No free advertising here!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The screwdriver slot was my best guess at ant-rotation. I give up! (That's the beer talking)
Did you notice an improvement in ride-ability?
Does it sound better?

If you're havin' a beer, cheers I am too :beer3: (and thanks for guessing).


I had mounted straight pipes on a bike years ago (an 1000 cc Yamaha Virago) and without a baffle it was obnoxiously loud, so I put a small baffle in the end. On this bike the pipes have two bends in them, so I was stumped as to how I'd get even a short baffle in the pipes to cut down the noise and to give it some backpressure. Strait pipes not only are too loud, but the often don't sound good and they rob the bike of midrange power due to lack of required backpressure. I did some research and was amazed and impressed that the home-made lollipop baffle could solve my problem and that it has such a good reputation for improving sound and backpressure on straight pipes, or pipes with no other baffle.

I can't honestly say how my bike improved with the lollipop installed, as I never heard or rode the bike with those pipes sans the lollipop installed. They definitely tone down the noise some, but as far as power is concerned I was running the bike with a 2-into-1 monster pro pipe, and those are the best in terms of power so there was a loss in mid-range power in order to have those stainless steel pipes you see in my photo.

By the way, reader might be interested to know those pipes you see in the photo I posted above (Black VStar Custom Midnight 1100 cc) are pipes I made out of two header pipes from a VTX 1300. I cut off all the outer heat shields and it left a bare metal stainless steel pipe I had to hand sand to a chrome finish and cut just right to fit my Vstar as end pipes. Most people would think those pipes are chrome, but they are hand polished stainless steel! Ugh, what a lot of work!!!






 

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Discussion Starter #14
So what'd you do?

Sent from my... wait - No free advertising here!


  1. Made my lollipop and put on the first nut all the way to the top of the threads (top being as far up the threads at the bottom of the lollipop bolt as it goes). This would hold the thing in place and keep it from falling down the drilled hole too far.
  2. Precisely measured the second nut and the distance it would end up with the pipe between it, and the first nut when it was mounted on the pipe wall. I then maked and cut the extra bold off so it was short enough to turn in the pipe and still leave enough bolt end to come through the pipe for the nut to fasten onto.
  3. I got some Kevlar thread and super glued it onto the tip/bottom of the lollipop bolt so that when it was hung, it would pull through the pipe hole.
  4. I used a vacuum to suck the thread up the pipe and out of the hole I'd drilled.
  5. I pulled the string and the lollipop bolt fasted onto it through the pipe, past the bend and with the hole facing up, simple pulled the bolt through the hole, and grabbed it with some needle-nose vice grips, then flipped the pipe over so gravity helped keep the bolt in place.
  6. I inserted a length of flexible steel conduit pipe (see image) that I had ground the tip flat and fed it down the pipe end closest to the lollipop and pressed against the lollipop to hold it in place.
  7. I removed the vice grips and carefully threaded the nut on (took several tries) until it was on enough to hold the lollipop in place.
  8. I used the orientation line to rotate the lollipop correctly inside the pipe, pressed hard with the conduit (that was resting on the flat of the lollipop) and tighted the nut as tight as it needed to be.
  9. I used Loctite red to seal the bold from coming loose and it has stayed in orientation and tight since and it has been over a year now.



The part of this I'm most proud of thinking up is the thread idea to pull the end of the bolt through the hole in the pipe. Once I thought of that, of course it dawned on me that the damn thing would just rotate as I tightened the nut if I didn't somehow figure out how to keep the bolt from rotating. It would have been simple had the pipes been straight, but having to go past a pretty tight bend made it yet another challenge in improvising. I supposes this is how some of the crazy tools people come up originate.

So now if you ever need to know how to get a lollipop baffle mounted past a pipe bend you'll know how it can be done. :wink2:





 

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Nicely done, HOP! Makes my gears crank and start to think lollipop baffles might work well on my HK Sideburners...
Thoughts as to where I'd need to research for distance and placement?
Goal is to lower the decibels/volume.

Sent from my... wait - No free advertising here!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Nicely done, HOP! Makes my gears crank and start to think lollipop baffles might work well on my HK Sideburners...
Thoughts as to where I'd need to research for distance and placement?
Goal is to lower the decibels/volume.

Sent from my... wait - No free advertising here!

look back in this thread to my post# 5, that provides all I know about where to mount the Lollipop. Big City Thunder (https://www.bigcitythunder.com/produ...les-part-2003/) sells these (see photo) if you have about $80.00 to spare, and they simply use your stock baffle mounting hole to install, unless you are doing some kind of custom location install. Most of us DIY types just make their own and spend the savings on other things. Still, Big City might have something there that suits your needs more than the most basic baffle they offer.





I would say that without a doubt installing a lollipop baffle will improve sound and performance over pipes with no baffles. The cool thing about a baffle mod is it isn't permanent, so if you don't like one version, you can re-install your previous baffle. Others may chime in regarding their experience and knowledge on the topic.
 

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What about securing a grabber tool to an inspection camera? Hold lollipop with grabber tool, visualize while you feed it down the pipe and the visualize proper placement.
 

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I bought a 650 V-star back in April and it had custom shorty exhaust on it. The pipes had no baffles and within 6 miles of riding it my ears were ringing. I had to do something and they have bends right at the end.

So, I've made straight baffles before for a bike that worked good but they wouldn't work on this one. You can buy flex baffles but they aren't cheap. So, I decided to go with the Lollipop baffles. I just welded bigger washers too bolts and then mounted them in the pipes. What a difference. Seems to have more torque at take off and the sound is at least half what it was and the sound is good as well. I now love the sound of the bike.

I mounted mine right at the end of the pipes just far enough in so you can't see them. I did it more to cut the sound more than anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
What about securing a grabber tool to an inspection camera? Hold lollipop with grabber tool, visualize while you feed it down the pipe and the visualize proper placement.



Actually, yes—something like the tool in the photo below could work to get the lollipop down the pipe past the bend, however once even a flexible extension goes through the pipe bend, the bend would tend to hold the wire against the top of the pipe that comes right after the bend and it becomes near impossible to place it down or up, as you could with a straight pipe. You wouldn't need a camera, if you just scored the end of the lollypop as indicated in the previous 'ideas' and my actual application. I would say that my string idea was so easy and cost-effective that anybody that wanted to use a 'grabber' could try it and I'm betting the string method would get it done faster.


Since the solution to this 'puzzle' has already been presented, the challenge now becomes to find an even easier or better method than I came up with. >:)






 
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