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Discussion Starter #1
I am running V&H Big shots with HPP and experiencing "moderate" popping on decel. I have read all of the information that I could find here about this combination including the "Air, Fuel, Motors, and missives Article", and have eliminated all of the probable causes (throttle slack, intake boots, exhaust gaskets, retorque exhaust, Biglry's PAIR mod information).

I thought I would try the test mode of blocking off the pair valve air inlet in the airbox to see if it got any worse. I have only tested the setup for about 40 miles, but it seems to have eliminated the decel pop issues, and everything else seems to be running strong.

I have a few questions for Bare, Tapper, Biglry,Spike, D-Hav, and other experts...

1. If this combination is working OK now, should I be woried about the inevitable increase in EGT caused by the HPP leaning out the mixture to compensate for the lack of the PAIR injected O2?

2. How long should it take the HPP to sort out the missing O2 from the PAIR?

3. Are there other issues that I should be watching for that would indicate that the PAIR removal is not the way to go with this bike?

Thank you in advance for your help on this issue.

Ducky55
 

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HPP ROCKS

I run a HPP ,and I have the pair valve pluged as well as the power to it
unpluged for a test .
I still have some decel pop ,not much but some.
Listen the next time a few Harley's roll by , same thing with them.Not
all but some.
I have also ran a pc111 and was able as Tapper puts it detune the motor
so I had no decel popping

My bike seems to run the same with the pair working or not working
smooth running and good power, so far I am real pleased with the HPP .

Like you I plan on doing a total desmog with Pete's plates to try to stop the now and then decel pop.
Like you I have also thought about the same thing you are asking.
You may have to pm BIGLry & D HAV but Bare should be around soon

Bare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HELP

Good luck to you
:wink:
 

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D Hav and Biglry both run the HPP with no smog stuff and they have excellent results. There are a small handful of others who have posted the same over time, guys with 49 state bikes so I know it's not just a CA thing. I tried plugging mine and testing it, I ran it for hundreds of miles in all different conditions, and "resetting" the ECU from time to time just to see if it made a difference. It didn't work for me... At all... Popping, hiccups, all kinds of problems - BUT these other folks (who are the minority) have been fortunate that theirs run well without. I say if it works then stick with it, you wouldn't be the first. I would run it plugged for a few hundred miles though just to make SURE that it stays working properly before you remove the entire system. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Chicago-Spike said:
I'm out of this one. Don't have a clue on the HPP, never even seen one of those units. :)
Spike,
Thanks you have already helped with your comments on a recent thread where you said that the PAIR system only works on decel. That is what motivated me to try the mod.

Al,
Thanks for your help, lets keep in touch on this one.

Bare,
Thanks for your help on this. As you suggest I will run it "as is" for a couple hundred miles and report my results back here.

Ducky55
 

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ducky55 said:
I am running V&H Big shots with HPP and experiencing "moderate" popping on decel. I have read all of the information that I could find here about this combination including the "Air, Fuel, Motors, and missives Article", and have eliminated all of the probable causes (throttle slack, intake boots, exhaust gaskets, retorque exhaust, Biglry's PAIR mod information).

I thought I would try the test mode of blocking off the pair valve air inlet in the airbox to see if it got any worse. I have only tested the setup for about 40 miles, but it seems to have eliminated the decel pop issues, and everything else seems to be running strong.

I have a few questions for Bare, Tapper, Biglry,Spike, D-Hav, and other experts...

1. If this combination is working OK now, should I be woried about the inevitable increase in EGT caused by the HPP leaning out the mixture to compensate for the lack of the PAIR injected O2?

2. How long should it take the HPP to sort out the missing O2 from the PAIR?

3. Are there other issues that I should be watching for that would indicate that the PAIR removal is not the way to go with this bike?

Thank you in advance for your help on this issue.

Ducky55
Ducky55,

1. I would not be worried one bit about removing the PAIR with the HPP. I have been running my VTX this way for about 25,000 miles now, with great results I might add. On the dyno, I could not detect any difference in the AFR, nor does my VTX-C decel pop. EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperatures???) I have noticed no difference. The color of the inside of my pipe is looking fantastic. One thing people may not know about a Honda motorcycle is that you can tell it has a correct AFR when you can see a lite colored ring of exhaust residue amonst the usual dark brown color inside of the exhaust pipe about an inch or so from the end of the pipe. This is evident on my exhaust and its one of the ways I know it performing optimal.

2. Since you have made this change, I would remove the Battery cables for about 10 min to bring the ECU back to the null settings. Not to mention, when ever you make a change (air cleaner, plugs, new pipe, etc) this should also be done. The HPP will take about 50 miles or so to dial itself in. So don't be afraid to go out and hammer the throttle while its setting itself up.

3. I have not noticed anything abnormal by removing the PAIR system while running the HPP. Mine continues to make great power when need be and also can deliver me 50MPG if I decide to go out for a leasurely putt putt.

If you continue to get the dreaded Decel Pop, make sure that the Intake Manifold Band Clamps are secure and not leaking, you are running fresh fuel (I prefer to run Chevron or Mobil because I believe it has superior additives for anti knock and smooth running. Don't sell yourself on cheap fuel. :D :D :D .. ), I also run their Techron every once in a while, be sure that you exhaust system is not leaky either. If you decide to remove the PAIR system (or block it off as you have noted) then make sure that you have it blocked off in its entirity. You might also consider unpluging the electrical connectors and blocking off that line to the Intake Manifold (with a golf tee in the rubber hose, etc) as well.

Shoot me another PM if you need any more suggestions.

BTW- I just pulled my plugs, and with 35,000 miles on the original Denso Irridium's, and needless to say they are still looking and running great. Also, please note; my bike is a California version and uses the CA O2 sensor. Who knows if there is some kind of a difference between it and the one used with the 49 state version.

Is your HPP hard wired in? If not, you should strongly consider this since them vampire clips can work themselves intermittant over time. I have also seen this causing havoc amonst some riders. And don't forget to make sure the battery cables are clean and secured properly too.

Hope this helps,

D
 

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I have a 49 state C 1800 with HPP n Bigshots Thunder MFG teardrop and the Pair system removed with blockoff plates. I run NGK Iridium plugs, my bike runs very strong, very little decel pop, great throttle responce, no hicups no berps however I do notice more pop when I am lazy on the roll off. I also use a modified quiet bafle "end cap removed"

removed my plugs after 10,000 miles of ride time last season to replace them, and I threw them back in, I found no reason to change them.

Roger
 

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Discussion Starter #8
D-Hav said:
Ducky55,

1. I would not be worried one bit about removing the PAIR with the HPP. I have been running my VTX this way for about 25,000 miles now, with great results I might add. On the dyno, I could not detect any difference in the AFR, nor does my VTX-C decel pop. EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperatures???) I have noticed no difference. The color of the inside of my pipe is looking fantastic. One thing people may not know about a Honda motorcycle is that you can tell it has a correct AFR when you can see a lite colored ring of exhaust residue amonst the usual dark brown color inside of the exhaust pipe about an inch or so from the end of the pipe. This is evident on my exhaust and its one of the ways I know it performing optimal.

2. Since you have made this change, I would remove the Battery cables for about 10 min to bring the ECU back to the null settings. Not to mention, when ever you make a change (air cleaner, plugs, new pipe, etc) this should also be done. The HPP will take about 50 miles or so to dial itself in. So don't be afraid to go out and hammer the throttle while its setting itself up.

3. I have not noticed anything abnormal by removing the PAIR system while running the HPP. Mine continues to make great power when need be and also can deliver me 50MPG if I decide to go out for a leasurely putt putt.

If you continue to get the dreaded Decel Pop, make sure that the Intake Manifold Band Clamps are secure and not leaking, you are running fresh fuel (I prefer to run Chevron or Mobil because I believe it has superior additives for anti knock and smooth running. Don't sell yourself on cheap fuel. :D :D :D .. ), I also run their Techron every once in a while, be sure that you exhaust system is not leaky either. If you decide to remove the PAIR system (or block it off as you have noted) then make sure that you have it blocked off in its entirity. You might also consider unpluging the electrical connectors and blocking off that line to the Intake Manifold (with a golf tee in the rubber hose, etc) as well.

Shoot me another PM if you need any more suggestions.

BTW- I just pulled my plugs, and with 35,000 miles on the original Denso Irridium's, and needless to say they are still looking and running great. Also, please note; my bike is a California version and uses the CA O2 sensor. Who knows if there is some kind of a difference between it and the one used with the 49 state version.

Is your HPP hard wired in? If not, you should strongly consider this since them vampire clips can work themselves intermittant over time. I have also seen this causing havoc amonst some riders. And don't forget to make sure the battery cables are clean and secured properly too.

Hope this helps,

D
Thanks for the help,

1. Yes EGT=Exhaust gas temp, in aircraft we lean the mixture till the EGT reaches a pre-determined value for maximum efficiency (range). Normally the temps are monitored individually at each header pipe and the concern is running too lean (therefore hot), hence my question about leaning things out too far on the VTX.

2. I will disconect the battery tonight, and check 50 miles thanks.

Have already done the manifold clamp/torque exhaust manifold, and soldered all HPP connections. If all continues to go well over the next couple hundred miles I will install the block off plates.

Thanks again for the help.

Ducky55
 

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Discussion Starter #9
RogerBzVTX said:
I have a 49 state C 1800 with HPP n Bigshots Thunder MFG teardrop and the Pair system removed with blockoff plates. I run NGK Iridium plugs, my bike runs very strong, very little decel pop, great throttle responce, no hicups no berps however I do notice more pop when I am lazy on the roll off. I also use a modified quiet bafle "end cap removed"

removed my plugs after 10,000 miles of ride time last season to replace them, and I threw them back in, I found no reason to change them.

Roger
Thanks for your input.

Ducky55
 
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