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Discussion Starter #2
The whole motorcycle market is in for some hard times with COVID-19 and high unemployment.
 

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A lot of people under 40 could less about HD. McDonald's undstood on how to get kids in there stores. Now HD is pushing the "Learn to Ride" to adult video players......to late imo.
 

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I like the way the youtuber presents his case. Unbaised and informative. Well done! I subscribed to his channel. He's got some good information for all bike types.
 

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U hate to see any Icon go by the wayside....But times they are a changing ....and thats not always a good thing...maybe a RIP Is in order...
 

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I had a Vega for a couple years.
 

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I think yes, Harley-Davidson is dying.

"Road & Track:
Harley invested millions in marketing to create an in-your-face tough-guy image that simply isn't connecting with younger riders. This decision was made years ago, aimed at attracting Baby Boomers who didn't see themselves as hippies, but it's left a lasting, dated impression of the brand in the minds of most Americans."


So, I think it's over for Harley for a while or forever. In people's mind Harley-Davidson is not a good motorcycle, instead it's a popular "cruiser only (and tourer) brand", a popular "life style". But younger folks don't buy (interested in) this "life style". No matter what is Harley trying to do (make).

If they continue to make cruisers (they are the most popular and best in that), they won't be able to sell as many bikes as they did before.

If they try to make other type of bikes (like sport bikes, street bikes, dirt bikes, dual purpose bikes or electric bikes), they won't be unique any more, just one of the many other brands without the experience of making those kind of bikes (so, basically with a big disadvantage). The people, who are buying sport, street, dirt, dual purpose or electric bikes, don't interested in the "life style" Harley is trying to sell, so they won't buy Harley sport, street, dirt, dual purpose or electric bikes, because there will be better and cheaper bikes on the market.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
[QUOTE="ervin260, post: 4640224, member: 23125"

If they continue to make cruisers (they are the most popular and best in that), they won't be able to sell as many bikes as they did before.
The people, who are buying sport, street, dirt, dual purpose or electric bikes, don't interested in the "life style" Harley is trying to sell, so they won't buy Harley sport, street, dirt, dual purpose or electric bikes, because there will be better and cheaper bikes on the market.
[/QUOTE]
What Harley should have done is downsized as a company, continue as long as they can with the cruiser line which is there success. They should have never expanded there line in the other motorcycle categories. You can still be an successful company if you are smaller and don't over do it. Look how many companies went bankrupt trying to get bigger only to find out the market for there products wasn't there.
 

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If they continue to make cruisers (they are the most popular and best in that), they won't be able to sell as many bikes as they did before.
The people, who are buying sport, street, dirt, dual purpose or electric bikes, don't interested in the "life style" Harley is trying to sell, so they won't buy Harley sport, street, dirt, dual purpose or electric bikes, because there will be better and cheaper bikes on the market.
What Harley should have done is downsized as a company, continue as long as they can with the cruiser line which is there success. They should have never expanded there line in the other motorcycle categories. You can still be an successful company if you are smaller and don't over do it. Look how many companies went bankrupt trying to get bigger only to find out the market for there products wasn't there.
Hindsight is always 2020. Their strategy did not count on a word wide pandemic, that's for certain. Too many companies get too large and fat to be able to survive a change in the marketplace that Harley is experiencing. In hindsight, repositioning and restructuring should have happened years ago. The PanAmerica and the Bonx should have been available in 2015. The M8 should have been in 2010 with the new touring chassis. Unfortunately it was all talk, but no action. The Street series was an abject failure in NorthAmerica because people were not buying 750 cruisers ... haven't for a long time. They talked about attracting women and younger riders but it was marketing, not product. Marketing just wasn't ever enough.

Harley still sells more bikes than Indian (for example only), and Polaris has their Indian division showing a profit, no reason Harley can't. They need to realize scale. Not an easy thing to do when you are the 800 lb gorilla in a specific market. That, and they need to leverage their new engine platform into other markets. They need to listen to the motorcycling public and not the Business Admin grads. Motorcycles and motorcycle sales is not something you can learn in school, you need to listen to the people that are going to spend their cash.

There is far too much money in the brand that it will die. But it will most certainly change.
 

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Hindsight is always 2020. Their strategy did not count on a word wide pandemic, that's for certain. Too many companies get too large and fat to be able to survive a change in the marketplace that Harley is experiencing. In hindsight, repositioning and restructuring should have happened years ago. The PanAmerica and the Bonx should have been available in 2015. The M8 should have been in 2010 with the new touring chassis. Unfortunately it was all talk, but no action. The Street series was an abject failure in NorthAmerica because people were not buying 750 cruisers ... haven't for a long time. They talked about attracting women and younger riders but it was marketing, not product. Marketing just wasn't ever enough.

Harley still sells more bikes than Indian (for example only), and Polaris has their Indian division showing a profit, no reason Harley can't. They need to realize scale. Not an easy thing to do when you are the 800 lb gorilla in a specific market. That, and they need to leverage their new engine platform into other markets. They need to listen to the motorcycling public and not the Business Admin grads. Motorcycles and motorcycle sales is not something you can learn in school, you need to listen to the people that are going to spend their cash.

There is far too much money in the brand that it will die. But it will most certainly change.
This is a really confusing post.

HD shrinks and it makes money? Is that the point?

Motorcycling is dead. DEAD. DEAD. DEAD. There are like 12 of us left who ride. Kids don't want to ride. Kids don't find motorcycles useful. THERE IS NO ONE TO BUY A BIKE AFTER GENERATION X. Nothing is going to HD. The guy nailed it. HD simply refused to change and took advantage of a weird obsession of a particular generation. Honda is scaling back bike production. The single largest seller of units in the world is producing less. How exactly is HD going to grow with a shrinking market and a stagnant product line?

I hope I am wrong about this. I hope the millennials or a generation after them finds they like riding bikes. I doubt it though. The main influence on what people like to do is their parents. Generally parents introduce kids to the hobbies that they adopt later. How on earth would a generation of kids find they like riding if essentially none of their parents ride?
 

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This is a really confusing post.

HD shrinks and it makes money? Is that the point?

Motorcycling is dead. DEAD. DEAD. DEAD. There are like 12 of us left who ride. Kids don't want to ride. Kids don't find motorcycles useful. THERE IS NO ONE TO BUY A BIKE AFTER GENERATION X. Nothing is going to HD. The guy nailed it. HD simply refused to change and took advantage of a weird obsession of a particular generation. Honda is scaling back bike production. The single largest seller of units in the world is producing less. How exactly is HD going to grow with a shrinking market and a stagnant product line?

I hope I am wrong about this. I hope the millennials or a generation after them finds they like riding bikes. I doubt it though. The main influence on what people like to do is their parents. Generally parents introduce kids to the hobbies that they adopt later. How on earth would a generation of kids find they like riding if essentially none of their parents ride?
No, I'm saying if Harley scales back they can survive. Survival will require a profit, that's just how it is. Growth, at the moment, is unrealistic for most any brand. "There is no one to buy a bike" is a bit of a stretch. People will buy motorcycles. Not at the level of the past, but motorcycles are not going away. Trends come, trends go, it's cyclical. Yes Harley refused to change, no secret there. I think I as much as said that.

Thanks for your opinion though.
 

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fast food places likely to close forever .. 2020

and a little something to LIGHTEN your day
 

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I am curious to see what BMW will do with them. It could be good. It might turn out like when Mercedes owned Chrysler, bomb.
 

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I am curious to see what BMW will do with them. It could be good. It might turn out like when Mercedes owned Chrysler, bomb.
Lol ... That would be interesting, wouldn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This is a really confusing post.

HD shrinks and it makes money? Is that the point?

Motorcycling is dead. DEAD. DEAD. DEAD.

I hope I am wrong about this. I hope the millennials or a generation after them finds they like riding bikes. I doubt it though. The main influence on what people like to do is their parents. Generally parents introduce kids to the hobbies that they adopt later. How on earth would a generation of kids find they like riding if essentially none of their parents ride?
Motorcycling as a sport is shrinking but it's still there for some who want to enjoy it. The biker craze we experienced in past years will never be as big as it once was. The manufacturers should realize this and shrink there product lines.
 

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most Hobbies over the past 100 years are dropping like flies.

both male and female hobbies..

like Forums... VTXOA, VTXCafe'...
Amateur Radio ( Ham )
Wood Working
plastic model building
Radio Controlled anything

any hobby requiring Time, Skill, Dedication
 
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Back in 2008 when Honda dropped the 1800 models, my first thought was what the heck is Honda thinking. Their marketing saw this slow down comming. HD never slowed down. My 2002 1800C has 76k on the clock . I have around $16k invested ,worth maybe $4K now......I would not change a thing...enjoyed every minute!
 

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Back in 2008 when Honda dropped the 1800 models, my first thought was what the heck is Honda thinking. Their marketing saw this slow down comming. HD never slowed down. My 2002 1800C has 76k on the clock . I have around $16k invested ,worth maybe $4K now......I would not change a thing...enjoyed every minute!

2008.. Honda knew it in 2002...

New 2002 1800's were still in there crates in 2007...
then I got my 3/2005 New... I could have purchased (10) 2002 for $5,000 less in the crate's.

I paid $13k for mine ( New Model ) 15 years and 92,000 miles and counting.
 
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