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Discussion Starter #1
Front cylinder started ticking suddenly. Not a steady tap like a valve. Sounds like a small metallic slap as if somthing is loose. Check valve clearance all were o.k. When I listened with a stethoscope it was on the cam chain side and didn't sound like it was coming from the rocker area. Has anyone had issues with the cam chain tensioner or cam chain stretch.
02 1800C with 21500 miles.
 

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Check your service manual.
There is probably a procedure to tell you how to get
all of the slop in one place and adjust the cam
chain tensioner to take up the slop in the chain.

At least we do have a chain,
which is constantly being lubricated by the engine oil.
Early Gold Wings (1975-1978) used belts which were notorious
for failure anytime after 20,000 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks

Thanks for the suggestion. I remember on my old Kawasaki, I could do that. I've researched it and think, on the VTX, there's no way to do it.
 
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The cam chain tensioner is a spring loaded unit and is not accessible without removing the engine from the frame.
 
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I don’t think it’s the tensioner. But this is a different noise – not usually a ticking.
The cam chain has to operate only 3 Valves and a short cam – I can’t see wear (stretch) under 100K miles


Question is how this ticking is – like a steady ticking goes up with the RPM or disappear in higher RPM?

No offence, did you your valve job right?

A guess is the cam sprocket – but let me know first if the noise disappear on higher RPM.

BTW: you can remove the Head Cover (engine in the frame) on the front cylinder and inspect the cam area. Not possible on the rear cylinder.
The second picture is the tensioner, you can see the chain too how massive this part is.
The third picture shows the sprocket and removed tensioner. If the sprocket is loose a indicator is the fingers touch the cam position sensor – you can pull this part easy (10mm) and check for scratches – this problem was there before.


 

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I checked out the service manual, and there is no procedure in the
maintenance section (chapter 3)
for adjusting the cam chain tensioner.

Chapter 8 which is about removing and replacing the cam and valves
and cylinder head tells how to remove the cam chain tensioner,
but does not give a maintenance procedure for it either.

Funny that CB750s and CB360s did have procedures for this.

Of course, the service manual for our bikes doesn't give the
simple way to change the fork springs either.

Looking forward to a Clymer or Haynes manual
(or both) for our bikes.
 
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Coyote7864 said:
I checked out the service manual, and there is no procedure in the maintenance section (chapter 3)
for adjusting the cam chain tensioner. Chapter 8 which is about removing and rewlacing the cam and valves and cylinder head tells how to remove the cam chain tensioner,
but does not give a maintenance procedure for it either. Funny that CB750s and CB360s did have procedures for this.
Of course, the service manual for our bikes doesn't give the simple way to change the fork springs either.
Looking forward to a Clymer or Haynes manual (or both) for our bikes.
The CB engines have a central unit with front and rear wear strips. The VTX engine have only one wear strip.
On the CB engine you release the spring and tight the 10mm bold back up. The spring shaft slides on the right position, the bike idles during this time. Pretty simple if this doesn’t work anymore, you have to replace the wear strips.
As I said before the VTX cam chain has to operate only on cylinder, one cam and only 3 valves – on top of it, at a slow speed.
The cam on a CB750 motor spins 1.55 times so fast and the red line is at 9000 RPM. The cam is 4 times so long, I not even talk about the CBX 6cyl.
Later they changed from OHC to DOHC which is again another ballgame.
No comparison here – two totally different motors! CB/VTX
 

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Nice picture Pete. Think I'll make that my puter's screensaver.



And I have four 19" screens. :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks Pete,
The pictures are just what I needed to see. The noise started suddenly, prior to the valves being checked. That's why I checked the valves. It's not a steady tapping like a valve. More like a random clicking. I don't here it when I rev the bike up, but it's not a real loud noise. didn't try with the stethoscope when reved up.
I think I'm going to remove the front valve cover and check it out. Looks like if I want to remove the tensioner, I will need to remove the cam gear, correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Could be the decompressor. That was my first thought, but I thought the decompressor would sound more like a valve tapping. I've heard it described as sounding like marbles in a tin can. I checked the compression. 130# front and rear. This is higher than the book says. I just (5 minutes ago) pulled the cam position sensor. Looked O.K. (no physical damage) It had some deposites on it , similar to what you would find on your oil plug. While I had the sensor out, I inserted my finger inthe hole and could touch the cam chain tensioner. I was able to move it with my finger. It wasn't sloppy loose but I could definately move it without much pressure.
 

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Really boys, open drag pipes will solve this issue!
Mine clicks bangs farts spurts wings wangs clangs wingwangs dingdands linglangs !
COME ON ITS A FUC-NG HONDA! it will run for ever! And if not you must have the 4-year extended warranty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rode a Harley for long enough to know someones WHINEING about dumb shit!
Take a nap, ride a friends harley then get a new hobby.
 

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Mopar said:
Front cylinder started ticking suddenly. Not a steady tap like a valve. Sounds like a small metallic slap as if somthing is loose. Check valve clearance all were o.k. When I listened with a stethoscope it was on the cam chain side and didn't sound like it was coming from the rocker area. Has anyone had issues with the cam chain tensioner or cam chain stretch.
02 1800C with 21500 miles.
A few thoughts. Noises are un-nerving and sometimes impossible to pin point.

First, there is no way to adjust the tensioner. And cam chains do stretch. Mine did at 20,000 miles. It was still within tolerance, but none-the-less, longer than the other one as evidenced by the wear indicator at the top of the tensioner. Honda gave me a new chain.

Second, mild piston slap is a possibility, though not a great one.

Third, I found a similar ticking which turned out to be a broken heat shield tab on my Chambermaids. New pipes, no more ticking.

Fourth. The decompression cam is held tight at rpm by centrifugal force ie the more rpm the stronger the cam is held in place making it difficult to rattle. I know some have had warranty work for this noise which was attributed to the spring under the cam. This could be your rattle, but I doubt it. If it is, ignore it. It is not a problem.

I think the greatest possibility is your valve adjustment. The Honda factory rep suggested to me (thru the dealer) to adjust slightly tight. Still allow the feeler guage to move in the gap with a fair amount of tug. Art vs. science.

Good luck.
 
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Mopar said:
Thanks Pete,
The pictures are just what I needed to see. The noise started suddenly, prior to the valves being checked. That's why I checked the valves. It's not a steady tapping like a valve. More like a random clicking. I don't here it when I rev the bike up, but it's not a real loud noise. didn't try with the stethoscope when reved up.
I have the strong feeling it is the decompression lobe. As former mentioned. But if you have the time/tools check it out.


Mopar said:
I think I'm going to remove the front valve cover and check it out. Looks like if I want to remove the tensioner, I will need to remove the cam gear, correct?
No after the removal of the cover pull the tip of the tensioner and secure the spring with a small drill bit or so, wire coat hanger works fine to. Loose the two 10mm bolts on the back and pull the tensioner.

BTW: what you felt true the hole of the cam position sensor was the wear strip (yellow in the picture) not the tensioner.

Good luck – check always twice don’t loose bolts or washers….
 

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Mopar said:
I agree, themore I look and listen the more I think it's the decompressor.
You will find that the decompressor cam has a somewhat loose feel on the shaft when the engine is not turning. At least mine does. If you determine it is the secompressor cam, what do you think the solution is? I am unsure. Pete probably has the answer :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I would like to take the cam out and just machine it off. I'm afraid it will cause starter problems. I'm not sure mine works anyway because I have checked the cranking compression several times and it has always been 130# on both cylinders. That sounds like full compression pressure to me.
 

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Mopar said:
I would like to take the cam out and just machine it off. I'm afraid it will cause starter problems. I'm not sure mine works anyway because I have checked the cranking compression several times and it has always been 130# on both cylinders. That sounds like full compression pressure to me.
Unless it is stuck in the "out position" it has to work. Only exception, I believe, is if the valve adjustment is very loose. I would avoid removing the cam. It will help your starter last longer, although I'm not sure that is significant since guys like me who have gone to the 10.5 compression ratio may have starter issues down the road. You might consider louder pipes :) to mask the sound.
 
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