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Discussion Starter #41
one other observation---

I started the bike up today while cleaning out the garage and I let it idle for about 3 or 4 minutes. I did not see any "smoke" today but I happen to put my hand behind the exhaust to feel if the pulse was similar between the front and rear cylinders. What I noticed is that the rear cylinder was hot exhaust and the front was cool. Is this normal or does this help point to the problem?:confused:
 

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one other observation---

I started the bike up today while cleaning out the garage and I let it idle for about 3 or 4 minutes. I did not see any "smoke" today but I happen to put my hand behind the exhaust to feel if the pulse was similar between the front and rear cylinders. What I noticed is that the rear cylinder was hot exhaust and the front was cool. Is this normal or does this help point to the problem?:confused:
Front plug is fouled and cylinder is not firing.
 

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here are the pics of the plugs. I replaced them as i did not know exactly when they were last replaced.





The rear cylinder is not frining...or randomly firing.

You have a spark issue,which should be easy to trace,and I doubt
any serious problem....
 

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All of this said, I'm not sure it makes a difference if you're lugging your V-Twin or if you're lugging a single, triple or four.
The difference is in the angle of the head,in relation to the Crankshaft..
On an in line 4 ,the angle is slight...and all in one direction....

V Twins are about 40 deg + or - and in opposite direction
 

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While I'm sure everyone is doing their best to not only help the OP (He and I have exchanged phone calls, Joe is a smart respectful guy) but to provide information to the best of their ability. Let me explain a little something about why "lugging" can be so harmful. The lubrication system in an engine employs the same phenomenom as when your car tires hydro-plane on rain water. The water can not get out of the way fast enough and a 'dynamic wedge' of pressure is built up in front of the wheel, the wheel (tire) steps up onto the film of water and comes out of contact with the road. A bad thing when driving, but it's what makes our engines work. All of the places where there are rolling or sliding contact between two metal surfaces are suspended by a pressurized film of oil. It takes three things to cause this suspension: 1. Presence of a fluid (oil) 2. Relative motion, and 3. Fluid pressure (provided by oil pump). During lugging, which is technically defined as a situation where additional throttle opening does not increase rpm, the load is high (combustion pressures on pistons) yet the relative motion is not fast enough to provide that "hydroplaning"of the piston against the cylinder (the oil pump is also turning slow) and scoring occurs. It is far better to keep the rpms up, keep that oil flowing and the parts suspended on their dynamic films.
 

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If coolant or any water based subatance is getting in the cylinder those plugs would have been slicker than a whistle. Most gaskets leaking coolant are into a piston "usually clean" the cylinder since its non condensible. But it sure is a dirty pipe. I think your pulling a head...
I still cant believe that bike dont smoke...
 

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Just to add on what Blast said....

Blast gave a nicely detailed description of the friction and fluid aspects. I will add onto the other and that would be mechanical load/stress under a lugging condition. Imagine the crank is directly connected to the rear wheel in 5th gear (which it is...). The ratio in 4th and 5th is very steep (meaning overdriven crank drives the output shaft more than one revolution for less than a full crank revolution). This is great for cruising but heck for acceleration.

The lack of mechanical advantage in 5th based on the steep ratio (low numerical ratio) makes it hard to accelerate the bike at lower speeds especially in 5th under 3k rpm, and if you keep pouring the coals to it at lower speed/rpm the crankshaft and rods take a beating from the rapid cylinder pressure increase fighting to overcome the lack of mechanical advantage. I notice a lugging shudder (not a miss) when I am starting to lug the engine in too tall a gear and too slow a speed. My 2008 "F" does not mind a roll on at say 70 mph and higher in 5th, but try one from about 55-60 and she gets grumpy and shows her displeasure via an engine shudder and wants me to drop to 4th.

If you've got a 10-20 speed bike laying around see for yourself what pulling a steep gear at low speed does to your knee and leg. Your leg and knee will struggle to push the steeper gear until your rolling at a good clip. Imagine that you suddenly tripled your leg strength at that same instant. The pivot points will take the pounding as the bike and physics duke it out. If you gear down it's like magic you can accelerate much easier. Isn't science something!!! :agree:
 

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After testing compression (104 psi) and installing the factory exhaust (which I was going to do anyway and not due to this oil thing) I started it up and after a few seconds the "smoke" from the exhaust port stopped but I now notice it on top of the cylinder. I have marked a pic showing where I see smoke now.
That's the valve cover, which is known to leak. Re-sealing the cover should take care of that.

The rear cylinder is not frining...or randomly firing.

You have a spark issue,which should be easy to trace,and I doubt
any serious problem....
:agree:Both rear plugs are fouled. If it's not firing, the piston will suck oil past the rings on the down stroke. Check the coils, connections and plug wires.
It's normal for the rear exhaust to get hot before the front. The pipe is shorter.
 

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The difference is in the angle of the head,in relation to the Crankshaft..
On an in line 4 ,the angle is slight...and all in one direction....

V Twins are about 40 deg + or - and in opposite direction
If you're looking right down the bore of a V-twin, V-4, V6, V?, doesn't the bore align pretty much right to the center of rotation of the crank? If this is the case, and I admit I might be wrong, the only real difference is where the crank mains are getting hit by the high cylinder pressure pulse. So in that respect I'd admit, it is different as it relates to the crank main bearings. I'm guessing, though, that the crank mains are probably the strongest and probably the last point of failure under a lugging type condition.

Not to be argumentative, mind you, just interested to learn another perspective.
 

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Definitely valve cover gasket

I have the same problem with my front head, it's probably been leaking for a while. I just bought this '02 1800C with 13,437 miles and it has not been cared for well. I've had to dive right in to a fork seal, heck how hard is a valve cover gasket?! ;)

Is it RTF or an actual gasket? Does anyone have a preference for the RTF? I've already pulled up some how-to's and it looks relatively easy. Back to Autozone to borrow a torque wrench... again...
 

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Answered my own question?

I have the same problem with my front head, it's probably been leaking for a while. I just bought this '02 1800C with 13,437 miles and it has not been cared for well. I've had to dive right in to a fork seal, heck how hard is a valve cover gasket?! ;)

Is it RTF or an actual gasket? Does anyone have a preference for the RTF? I've already pulled up some how-to's and it looks relatively easy. Back to Autozone to borrow a torque wrench... again...
Here were some suggestions from another post:
the Right Stuff Gasket Maker
PERMATEX 25224

Permatex MotoSeal. It is called Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey #29132.
http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257960&highlight=head+gasket
 

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Regarding 'working in the garage with socks on' I thought that was awesome because in my garage, you look for cardboard or something when you need to lay down just to keep from getting so dirty. Clean garage is something I strive for and glad to see someone is able to pull that off. Cudos my man. I run through your town some. Welcome. I think your bike is going to be O.K. even though I am NOT a mechanic. Best of luck, Mike
 

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Hey everyone. I know it has been a long time for this post. I have exactly the same issue with stlpsd. I read the forum and saw that there was no conclusion.

@stlpsd did you find the problem reg to the oil leak from rear exhaust and from the point where the exhaust connected to the rear of the engine?

Just bought this VTX 1300 2006 and been loving it until I have this issue.

Please get back to me :/
 

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Hey everyone. I know it has been a long time for this post. I have exactly the same issue with stlpsd. I read the forum and saw that there was no conclusion.

@stlpsd did you find the problem reg to the oil leak from rear exhaust and from the point where the exhaust connected to the rear of the engine?

Just bought this VTX 1300 2006 and been loving it until I have this issue.

Please get back to me :/
2005 1300 I have replaced my Exh inspection cover O-ring twice due to leaking oil.
The extreme heat causes the rubber to lose elasticity.
An 1800 owner recently posted about oil leaking. I suggested oil leaking from the inspection port and
to replace O-ring replacement.
 

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Thank you for your fast feedback! Haven't heard of an exh inspection port on a vtx tho. Can you please be more specific? Do you mean the gaskets behind the flanges where exh pipes connect to the rear of the engine?
 

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The exhaust valve inspection port, where you adjust the lash on the exhaust valve. What TennX what pointing out.
 
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