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Howdy all, well I have my bike back together waiting on the silicone to set up. This will be a long thread, I tried to take a ton of pictures to help make things clearer
I hope nobody has to see the inside of their bike

But if ya do need to go in there, I hope this post helps to eliminate some of the problems I experienced. This is doable (obviously) at home, but you will need some "special" tools which you can get fairly cheap at Harbor Freight


Some of you may know, I was having a starting issue. It started out as occasionally when I hit the starter button, the starter would spin but the engine would not turn over. Usually I would just hit the button again and the engine would turn over and start.
As the season went on and it started to get colder, the problem happened more often. Back early in January I had to hit the button like 4 times before the engine would catch and turn over,
so I posted to see if anyone had ever experienced similar and what they did. Although a couple people have experienced this nobody had it as severe as me or fixed it.

People gave lots of opinions on what it could be, but almost everyone assumed that our Electric Starter works like one on a car.
It does Not.

The Starter is engaged all the time,, it goes thru a torque limiter, a starter idle gear, to the starter driven gear which turns the Flywheel (and engine) thru a 1 way clutch. (I have a picture later showing this)

So lets get started with the disassembly

Your gonna be working on the Left side of the bike


First thing you do is drain the oil, while the oil is draining you need to remove the Plasti-Chrome cover that covers the shift linkage and transmission

Once that cover is off you will need to remove the shift-linkage so that it is out of the way. I recommend marking the spline shaft end and your linkage with a line so when you reinstall you can get your shifter back to the same position



(You will need to pull the linkage bolt all the way out to be able to slip off the spline)

I will say that the service manual I downloaded was indispensable. I only found 1 thing different on my 06C versus the 03S it was written for, that is where the wire-harness is routed. On my 06 it runs all the way up to under the seat and was a royal PITA to get unplugged and pulled from the bike


Once the oil is drained you can pull the Left Side Cover, BE CAREFUL. This cover is Metal, slightly heavy, prolly a little slick with oil and has your Alternator in it.

There are 13 bolts total, with 4 of them being extra long. This picture shows the location of the long bolts



Here is the Left Side Cover freshly removed



You can see the Alternator windings and the ignition timing pickup sensor. This will also give you a better idea why nobody came out with an aftermarked alternator for our scoots


This pic shows what is left in the bike and the starter gear train labled



The Starter Clutch is a 2 piece assembly that is bolted to the backside of the Flywheel, the hub of the starter driven gear fits into the clutch.

The Torque Limiter and idler gear pull out very easily.

Now you need to remove the bolt holding the Flywheel on the tapered shaft.

A special tool is called for in the manual, but I used a BF adjustable wrench to hold the flywheel from turning while I loosened the bolt. The flats on the flywheel are 40mm. Be Careful, this bolt is TIGHT!!!!, over 100 lbs/ft torqued. The wrench can slip off when your applying that much pressure and fly up and almost hit your gas tank
(I got very lucky it didn't hit the tank)


Once you pull that bolt, the flywheel is locked onto a tapered shaft so you will need an 8" puller



The flywheel literally exploded off the shaft, it had a major taper-lock going, skeered the chit out of me and I had to go check my shorts after if POPPED off


For me the starter driven gear stayed on the shaft. There is a woodruff key on the shaft, I didn't need to remove this everything came off ok without removing it


***There is a Flat Thrust washer between the Nose of the Driven gear and the back of the Flywheel. Mine was stuck to the back of the Flywheel with oil. Remove this and set aside in a safe place so you don't loose it

When you pull the Driven Gear off the shaft, you can remove and inspect the needle bearing and inner race on the shaft.


Now I took the flywheel assembly over to the bench to remove the clutch assembly. This is where you will need a strap wrench to hold the flywheel while you remove the Torx bolts (T40 I think) holding the clutch assembly


Here is the backside of the flywheel and the 2 pieces of the starter clutch



The service manual gives you dimension on the Starter Driven Gear to measure for wear



The Hub O.D. should be bigger than 2.2692"
The Hub I.D. (for needle bearing) should be smaller than 1.736"

After taking my measurements, and everything had plenty of wear left, I decided it had to be the starter clutch and I ordered my parts.

Reassembly is in reverse order.

You will need to apply oil to the clutch components before reassembly, torque for the flywheel Torx bolts is 22 lb/ft. Clean the bolts and use blue loctite before reassembling

Main Flywheel
I put some oil on that thrust washer and stuck it back onto the back of the flywheel before slipping the assembly back onto the taper shaft.

Again using the BF Adjustable wrench you tighten the flywheel bolt to 101 lb/ft. You DO NOT apply loctite to this bolt. The manual actually says to coat the bolt threads and face of the shaft with oil.

Left Case Cover
The Left Case Cover bolts get tightened to 9 lb/ft.

I applied silicone gasket material to the side case after cleaning both the cover face and case mounting faces.

I will let this silicone seal cure for a couple of days since it is COLD here before putting oil back in the bike and testing things.

Here are comparison pics of the Clutch components.

Old Outer Clutch

Notice the wear marks

New Outer Clutch


Old Inner (sprag) Clutch

You see some wear here too

New Inner (sprag) Clutch


I haven't tried starting the bike yet. As I said I have to let the silicone gasket goo cure before I can add oil. My confidence is high that this will cure my problem.

While trouble shooting the problem, and after removing side cover, I reinstalled the various gears and bummped the starter. I could see the entire gear train turn, but the flywheel didn't which indicates the clutch was slipping. Also the troubleshooting section in the manual says to replace the Starter Clutch for this problem. I could see if the Driven Gears wear measurements I mentioned above were close to the limits that maybe the slippage was there, but mine measure nowhere close to the limits. I don't know what a new part would measure but there was not sign of wear at all on that part.

I am running synthetic, I started with Shell Rotella T, then next change I switched to Mobile VTwin 20w50. It was after that last change that my problem got worse and deteriorated from there. I don't know if the Mobil oil was the root of my problem but I have a fresh gallon of Shell Rotella ready to go back into the bike
Im not gonna take any chances. the Shell oil is a proven commodity here so I will stick with it.

I would like to say this experience has been fun, but I ain't gonna


I did learn a ton, and hopefully this post can help someone else in the future.

Thanks for looking

Jeff
 

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Excellent job putting this together. Pix made it nice.
 

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Wow. Nice post, and pics! Congrats on doing it yourself, and I hope it fixes the problem.
 

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You definitely have a lot more guts than I do to dig that deep into something like that. I'm a newbie, and just get my X last May..It's the first bike I have ever owned and I'm hoping everything works just as it should or I'm sure it will be a dealer visit for me..Nice Job and Great How-to post!!
 

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good job

wow good job on bike and pics im impressed im a pretty decent wrench my self , but that was kinda intimedateing were you thinkin oh crap what have i gotten myself into, lol. again good job
 

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Thanks for the nice write up and pics
 

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Discussion Starter #7
wow good job on bike and pics im impressed im a pretty decent wrench my self , but that was kinda intimedateing were you thinkin oh crap what have i gotten myself into, lol. again good job
Yeah, a couple times I was thinking "If ya screw this up too bad, how are ya gonna load all the pieces into the truck to haul it to a "real" mechanic" LOL
 

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I hope everything works out for you because that would suck if you had to rip it apart again. I hope that I never have any problems like that. Knock on wood.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Very nice write-up! I also hope this solves your problem. Is the silicone necessary? Was there any silicone or gasket there when you pulled the case off?
Yes for the gasket, Honda had a grey colored silicone on there, I used the clear. The Chit was everywhere, some even had gotten on the Torque limiter, didn't hurt anything wasn't near any of the gear mesh areas but Honda obviously applied a liberal amount :eek:

They show a diagram in the Service manual of where to apply the silicone.

I hope everything works out for you because that would suck if you had to rip it apart again. I hope that I never have any problems like that. Knock on wood.
You and me both Brother, I don't want to go back in there any time soon, but if I have too, or anyone else, at least we know now what to expect;)
 

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Thanks for the well done step by step. Reading it in the manual is so much easier to follow when you have somebody's real world experience like this.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
WooHoo

Ok, I sealed everything up on Sunday. Couldn't get to it yesterday, but had my son help me today get all the excess silicone off the outside of the case/cover joint so I can see any potential oil leaks better

Put fresh oil in her and got ready for the Big moment of truth (did I screw something up or not:shock:)


Well.....She turned over each and every time I hit the button:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:, fired right up too, then promptly died:mrgreen: she hasn't been run in over a month and it is cold here.

No problem fired her up again feathered the throttle and before no time she was idling nicely.

Let her run for a bit, then checked the oil again and topped her off

So no more starter clutch slipping:bowdown::pepper1::beer2:

So far no signs of any oil leaks either, so it looks like I got her sealed correctly too

I have a couple of white towels under her and will check tomorrow for any drips, prolly should call some of my HD friends over and ask if I have the towels placed correctly under the bike
 

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Great write up. It appears to be a cintrifical clutch, am I wright?
We use these in equipment I work on and almost never have one go bad.
Do you think it may have been defective or a lot of miles?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Great write up. It appears to be a cintrifical clutch, am I wright?
We use these in equipment I work on and almost never have one go bad.
Do you think it may have been defective or a lot of miles?
Nope not a centrifical clutch, it is a 1 way clutch, grabs in one direction, free spin in the opposite.

I don't think defective or miles, my problem began to show up when I put in Mobile V-Twin, which I learned after putting it in is really too heavy a weight for our 1300 bikes (20W-50). I prolly should have went with the Mobile 4T. But I have gone back and will remain with the Shell Rotella.

The pictures don't show the wear marks as well as seeing it in person, but I think the heavier oil allowed the clutch to burnish/slip and it just got worse from there

When I began investigating my problem I put the question out to this forum and the Cafe. Nobody had the problem as bad as me and nobody chimed in about replacing their starter clutch. My bike doesn't have that many miles(only 10,200) I have read many posts of people with over 80K on their bikes and not even replaced their tranny clutch yet, so I was blessed (not) to experience a Starter Clutch failure. But it must not be too uncommon because the Service Manual's troubleshooting section called the symptons exactly and says to change the Starter Clutch.

Sorry for the long winded response:mrgreen:

Jeff
 

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Great write up and great pics. I hope this cures your issues.
 

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I'm having a sound in lower left engine that sounds like a chain rubbing.
Experienced people have said timing chain tensioner or guide. Pulled flippin engine and heads to find them fine!!, Probably a bearing in Starter clutch??
 

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I'm having a sound in lower left engine that sounds like a chain rubbing.
Experienced people have said timing chain tensioner or guide. Pulled flippin engine and heads to find them fine!!, Probably a bearing in Starter clutch??
Possibly the helmet lock.There are a few other things that rattle and rub.
Source of sounds/noise are difficult to determine.
I would make the starter clutch/sprag and bearings the last choice.
20-50 oil has been the most common cause of sprag not engaging in the winter.
Original poster mentioned going to 20-50 and it got worse.
Metzler 888 causes a harmonic in the rear shock covers, in a narrow band 27-28 MPH
on decel. A windshield is a nice reflector of strange noises.
 
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